Author Topic: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium  (Read 70344 times)

Miyabi

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #285 on: April 13, 2010, 09:56:12 PM »

Brandon has said Hoid isn't a shard, but that he is closely related.  He was there when Adonalsium shattered.
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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #286 on: April 13, 2010, 10:25:23 PM »
Hoid isn't technically a shard, though by the time you meet him in most books he's bound to one, so it's nearly the same thing.

So Hoid isn't technically a shard, but he is bound to one. So like Leras is bound to Preservation, and as Ati is bound to Ruin, Hoid is bound to... Something. I asked Brandon what Shard he's bound to last Thursday, and he RAFO'd it.

Yay RAFO cards!
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Chaos

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #287 on: April 13, 2010, 10:30:08 PM »
The real question is whether Hoid counts in that list of four shards we've seen the influence of. As of now, we've only been confirmed of Endowment. The other three are open questions.
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Terrisman243

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #288 on: April 14, 2010, 06:53:29 AM »
I don't think Hoid is a shard.  Why?  Cuz he still has a physical body.  When Vin became a shard, her body vanished, so if Hoid is a shard why hasn't this happened to him?

I agree that Hoid isn't a shard, but I am almost certain that he uses a shard. Lightweaving.

See there's a problem with that. I don't think he actually Lightweaves. When  he's a storyteller to Siri and Lightsong, he drops a bunch of random things in a way that someone might from someone who used to have Lightweaving, but Siri doesn't receive a vision of the things that occur.

Maybe he is connected to a shard, but the magic doesn't work on a different world? But then that leaves us to ask how he gets from planet to planet.

Then again, all I know of Lightweaving is from the 6 preview chapters from Dragonsteel. 

Miyabi

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #289 on: April 14, 2010, 07:34:42 AM »

All magics would work on the other worlds provided you knew how to make it happen.
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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #290 on: April 20, 2010, 03:24:18 PM »
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All magics would work on the other worlds provided you knew how to make it happen.

Assuming that you have the proper genetics for it...   ;)

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Ruin's consciousness—separate from his power—isn't a particularly nice being. But you can't much blame him, as there's very little that is left of the mind that once was. The force of Ruin has pretty well molded the mind to fit with the force's intent.

This seemed to relate to some of what you were posting earlier,  so I thought it was worth bringing up.  Not really particularly novel information, but seems like it is worth reminding people about.

Now, on to the focus of my post!

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Kill him, Ruin's voice whispered. You could do it. Take a weapon from one of those soldiers, then use it on Yomen.
A slight tangent occurs where Vin is disturbed that Reen's voice is actually Ruin's.  Then back in:
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She ignored the voice, She wasn't sure why Ruin would want her to try killing Yomen. After all, the Yomen had captured her--the obligator king was working on Ruin's side.

Brandon says this about the chapter (in his annotations):

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Notice that Ruin's voice doesn't come to her until after she puts the earring back in. As she points out later, his telling her to kill isn't as specific as she's interpreting it. He's just sending her a general feeling that she should kill and destroy; his attention is elsewhere at the moment, watching what Spook is doing.
(emphasis added)

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Let's look at the Pool scene. We have one Shard, with a passive mindset, telling Raoden to give up. This is the Shard Pool's influence. But!  Raoden received a vision of an Aon. It seems slightly contradictory to have one Shard telling Raoden to die, and then the other showing him an Aon. This is an interesting duality. One giving him a reason to live, the other wanting him to die. Passion/Tranquility, it could be called?

It seems to me that the Dor Shard and the pool could be the same. (though I actually don't think they are, so I'm kind of playing Devil's Advocate. Oh well.) Raoden's mind could just be interpreting the Shard's general feelings and tendencies, but the aon Rao is what it is deliberately sending him.

I dunno. It's just a thought.

The other thing I wanted to mention was a passing confirmation that Ruin and Preservation were humans that predated Scadriel. I've been trying to find it, but I haven't been able to yet. (Grrr. Sometimes I wish that HoA wasn't so darn long). Basicly what it says is that Preservation remembered either what he had once been, or what had once been in general, and wanted it created again. So it seems to me that they were humans from the pre-collapse of Adonalsium, who created humans originally. When Creation shattered, they were some of those who became shards, and remembered what had gone before. Thus all the shards both remember humans (and being human), and the power of the Shards itself has a tendency towards the creation of humans.


Wow. Looking back, this is kind of rambly and not particularly coherent. Oh well. Feel free to poke holes in this.

And yes, I know that some of that was common knowledge.

Chaos

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #291 on: April 20, 2010, 06:30:32 PM »
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It seems to me that the Dor Shard and the pool could be the same. (though I actually don't think they are, so I'm kind of playing Devil's Advocate. Oh well.) Raoden's mind could just be interpreting the Shard's general feelings and tendencies, but the aon Rao is what it is deliberately sending him.

I really, really like the idea that the pool was sending the Shard's general tendencies.

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The other thing I wanted to mention was a passing confirmation that Ruin and Preservation were humans that predated Scadriel.

This is correct. Ruin and Preservation created Scadrial.

Plus, in addition to that, the longer a person is bound to a Shard, the more that person's mind is molded to the Shard's purpose.
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Renoard

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #292 on: April 20, 2010, 11:34:04 PM »
Which by definition means Sazed is doomed to ambivalence and insanity.  Two opposed forces "molding his (pardon, IT's) mind" and all.
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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #293 on: April 21, 2010, 01:24:59 AM »
Or they could cancel each other out, leaving Sazed's mind entirely unaffected.
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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #294 on: April 21, 2010, 05:50:52 PM »
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Brandon has said Hoid isn't a shard, but that he is closely related.  He was there when Adonalsium shattered
I'm not saying Hoid is a shard, but that he is the conciousness of all the shards combined: Adonalsium, and thus was present when Adonalism shattered.
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Rezo

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #295 on: April 21, 2010, 06:04:53 PM »
Quote
Brandon has said Hoid isn't a shard, but that he is closely related.  He was there when Adonalsium shattered
I'm not saying Hoid is a shard, but that he is the conciousness of all the shards combined: Adonalsium, and thus was present when Adonalism shattered.
Or a man who Adonalsium have given a mission to? We still don't know what was behind Adonalsium destruction, so it's hard to guess who Hoid could be.

happyman

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #296 on: April 23, 2010, 02:28:40 AM »
Which by definition means Sazed is doomed to ambivalence and insanity.  Two opposed forces "molding his (pardon, IT's) mind" and all.

I've long suspected that Sazed might be affected.  I sure hope neither the power of Ruin nor Preservation is somehow slightly stronger in the new gestalt.

What is Sazed?  I'd say that he is now the balance between Ruin and Preservation.  He will become less and less capable of letting either power get too much influence in the world, but rather focus on keeping things on track.  For the world at large, I would say this is good news.  In the small things, though, it may mean he won't step in to stop things like personal deaths and minor tragedies.

As a Feruchemist, this is probably just enhancing his natural tendencies anyway.
Nature hates being reified.

Link von Kelsier Harvey XXIV

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #297 on: April 23, 2010, 04:36:09 AM »
I've often pondered what kind of God Sazed would be.  I just can't see him asking people to worship him.  I also have this awesome idea of Marsh and Ten Soon acting as his agents on Scadriel, while he keeps track of the bigger picture.  As for minor tragedies, he's wise enough to know that people need minor tragedies to grow.
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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #298 on: April 23, 2010, 06:14:50 AM »
Brandon has said that when he gets back to Mistborn Marsh'll still be around.  It'll be interesting to see how much of an influence Sazed will have on this relic of a time with a more hostile Ruin consciousness.

What if it turned out that Hoid was EVIL!?  He's always been more passive than anything, thus leaving his actual morality a sort of unanswered question until WoK comes out.
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happyman

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #299 on: April 24, 2010, 03:29:35 AM »
I've often pondered what kind of God Sazed would be.  I just can't see him asking people to worship him.  I also have this awesome idea of Marsh and Ten Soon acting as his agents on Scadriel, while he keeps track of the bigger picture.  As for minor tragedies, he's wise enough to know that people need minor tragedies to grow.

Tricky question, this.

They may not need to worship him.  But don't the people need to know the truth about their world in order to make the best of it?  Sazed already started this by dropping a brand new multi-volume set of scriptures on the reborn world, including works on mathematics, engineering and map-making :).  What if people start going in the wrong direction and believing wrong and dangerous theories?
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