Author Topic: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium  (Read 70584 times)

Aranfan

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #135 on: July 14, 2009, 03:13:38 AM »
I don't think that the Dor and the Pool are the same thing, though you may be right about the Warbreaker shard.  It seems that the Dor is just an energy with nothing guiding it any more, and if something was guiding the Dor, they would want it released. The Pool wanted to let Raoden relax, let him die in peace, but he refused because he saw a way to bring back Elantris.

You're conflating the power with the person, just because the Dor's power is straining to be used doesn't mean the person won't want to end the agony of a Hoed, or formerly Hoed, Elantrian.  Besides, the Pool struck me as very similar to the Well of Ascension (Preservation's Pool) and the Black Pool (presumably Ruin's) that Alendi saw.  With this I would conclude that the Pool near Elantris was the Dor's body (as the WoA was Preservation's), and the voice Raoden heard in the Pool was the Dor's voice.  



Ookla, I don't see why there should be.  Alendi's Diary has reliability issues, but I could certainly check the descriptions of the Well and the Pool to see.

zas678

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #136 on: July 14, 2009, 03:48:15 AM »
Yes, I know that the power and person are different, but I think that if Preservation's Power was 'clogged up' he would convince whoever entered his pool to use some of the Lerasium.  I think that the same would apply to the Pool. But who knows? They may very well be the same power.
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Chaos

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #137 on: July 14, 2009, 03:59:54 AM »
I don't think that the Dor and the Pool are the same thing, though you may be right about the Warbreaker shard.  It seems that the Dor is just an energy with nothing guiding it any more, and if something was guiding the Dor, they would want it released. The Pool wanted to let Raoden relax, let him die in peace, but he refused because he saw a way to bring back Elantris.

You're conflating the power with the person, just because the Dor's power is straining to be used doesn't mean the person won't want to end the agony of a Hoed, or formerly Hoed, Elantrian.  Besides, the Pool struck me as very similar to the Well of Ascension (Preservation's Pool) and the Black Pool (presumably Ruin's) that Alendi saw.  With this I would conclude that the Pool near Elantris was the Dor's body (as the WoA was Preservation's), and the voice Raoden heard in the Pool was the Dor's voice.  

Ookla, I don't see why there should be.  Alendi's Diary has reliability issues, but I could certainly check the descriptions of the Well and the Pool to see.

This is not entirely accurate. Lerasium and atium are, respectively, Preservation and Ruin's "bodies". Wasn't the Well of Ascension part of Preservation's Cognitive part? I seem to remember something like that.

Also, if Ruin, Preservation, and Endowment are any basis, whatever Shard(s) in Elantris would have a similar abstract concept.

I don't think that the Dor and the Pool are the same thing, though you may be right about the Warbreaker shard.  It seems that the Dor is just an energy with nothing guiding it any more, and if something was guiding the Dor, they would want it released. The Pool wanted to let Raoden relax, let him die in peace, but he refused because he saw a way to bring back Elantris.

Perhaps "Tranquility"? That's the best I can think of thus far, having not read Elantris in a long time. A Shard wanting peace and harmony like that would probably be immensely passive in its magic. Maybe.

There are other possibilities for which four Shards we are missing. I'm going to start a long-winded post on the subject right now :D
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Aranfan

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #138 on: July 14, 2009, 04:09:16 AM »
I don't think that the Dor and the Pool are the same thing, though you may be right about the Warbreaker shard.  It seems that the Dor is just an energy with nothing guiding it any more, and if something was guiding the Dor, they would want it released. The Pool wanted to let Raoden relax, let him die in peace, but he refused because he saw a way to bring back Elantris.

You're conflating the power with the person, just because the Dor's power is straining to be used doesn't mean the person won't want to end the agony of a Hoed, or formerly Hoed, Elantrian.  Besides, the Pool struck me as very similar to the Well of Ascension (Preservation's Pool) and the Black Pool (presumably Ruin's) that Alendi saw.  With this I would conclude that the Pool near Elantris was the Dor's body (as the WoA was Preservation's), and the voice Raoden heard in the Pool was the Dor's voice.  

Ookla, I don't see why there should be.  Alendi's Diary has reliability issues, but I could certainly check the descriptions of the Well and the Pool to see.

This is not entirely accurate. Lerasium and atium are, respectively, Preservation and Ruin's "bodies". Wasn't the Well of Ascension part of Preservation's Cognitive part? I seem to remember something like that.

Also, if Ruin, Preservation, and Endowment are any basis, whatever Shard(s) in Elantris would have a similar abstract concept.

I recall Brandon saying in the Offical Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread that the Mist, the Well, and Lerasium were all different forms of Preservation's power.

I don't think that the Dor and the Pool are the same thing, though you may be right about the Warbreaker shard.  It seems that the Dor is just an energy with nothing guiding it any more, and if something was guiding the Dor, they would want it released. The Pool wanted to let Raoden relax, let him die in peace, but he refused because he saw a way to bring back Elantris.

Perhaps "Tranquility"? That's the best I can think of thus far, having not read Elantris in a long time. A Shard wanting peace and harmony like that would probably be immensely passive in its magic. Maybe.

Maybe, AonDor doesn't seem all that tranquil though.

There are other possibilities for which four Shards we are missing. I'm going to start a long-winded post on the subject right now :D

I'd be glad to hear it.  I'm also going to probably attack the parts were it differs from mine.  :D

Edit: Also, feel free to attack mine as well.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 04:19:20 AM by Aranfan »

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #139 on: July 14, 2009, 04:25:55 AM »
I don't think that the Dor and the Pool are the same thing, though you may be right about the Warbreaker shard.  It seems that the Dor is just an energy with nothing guiding it any more, and if something was guiding the Dor, they would want it released. The Pool wanted to let Raoden relax, let him die in peace, but he refused because he saw a way to bring back Elantris.

You're conflating the power with the person, just because the Dor's power is straining to be used doesn't mean the person won't want to end the agony of a Hoed, or formerly Hoed, Elantrian.  Besides, the Pool struck me as very similar to the Well of Ascension (Preservation's Pool) and the Black Pool (presumably Ruin's) that Alendi saw.  With this I would conclude that the Pool near Elantris was the Dor's body (as the WoA was Preservation's), and the voice Raoden heard in the Pool was the Dor's voice.  

Ookla, I don't see why there should be.  Alendi's Diary has reliability issues, but I could certainly check the descriptions of the Well and the Pool to see.

This is not entirely accurate. Lerasium and atium are, respectively, Preservation and Ruin's "bodies". Wasn't the Well of Ascension part of Preservation's Cognitive part? I seem to remember something like that.

Also, if Ruin, Preservation, and Endowment are any basis, whatever Shard(s) in Elantris would have a similar abstract concept.

I recall Brandon saying in the Offical Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread that the Mist, the Well, and Lerasium were all different forms of Preservation's power.

Yes. Well, I'm looking through the MB3 spoiler thread, and here's what Brandon said:

Quote
The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself.  Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them.  These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used.  It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

The "body", Lerasium, would be Physical. Since Preservation gave up some his cognitive power, the Well of Ascension would be the Cognitive Realm. I'd imagine the mists are the Spiritual part.

There are other possibilities for which four Shards we are missing. I'm going to start a long-winded post on the subject right now :D

No, actually. Your post is very well thought-out, but I have a couple of possibilities, which as you will see, have multiple possibilities themselves.
I'd be glad to hear it.  I'm also going to probably attack the parts were it differs from mine.  :D
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Aranfan

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #140 on: July 14, 2009, 04:36:10 AM »
Whereas Brandon also writes the following:

Alendi's "Piercings of the Hero"?

The other lake in Alendi's bumps?

Spook gets repaired, does Cett get his legs?

Was there ever anything to Reen's obsidian?

2) A manifestation of Ruin's gathered consciousness, much like the dark mists in book two.  The lake was still around in Vin's era, but had been moved under ground.  (Note that the Well is a very similar manifestation.  You've also seen one other manifestation like this....)

That has to be the Pool in Elantris.

Chaos

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #141 on: July 14, 2009, 04:44:06 AM »
Oh, definitely. I thought that was something that was common knowledge on the forum :P
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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #142 on: July 14, 2009, 04:49:21 AM »
Another possibility for the shard that has left is "Jaddeth." He is said to be sleeping now, but his could be the power that the monks use.  Of course the future series in Elantris is about his followers proclaiming that he is coming back, so unless they found out how to access his power as Vin or Sazed did, then him coming back means that he is still around.

Aranfan

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #143 on: July 14, 2009, 04:53:58 AM »
But the way Brandon worded it implied that the Pool held the Dor's Consciousness.  Which mean the voice pretty much has to be the Dor.

Edit: this post is a response to Chaos, not bookWorm

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #144 on: July 14, 2009, 05:06:59 AM »
But the way Brandon worded it implied that the Pool held the Dor's Consciousness.  Which mean the voice pretty much has to be the Dor.

Edit: this post is a response to Chaos, not bookWorm

I'm asking a friend right now to look at the part where Raoden goes into the pool, but if anyone has Elantris nearby, could you give me some quotes to go by? :P

Another possibility for the shard that has left is "Jaddeth." He is said to be sleeping now, but his could be the power that the monks use.  Of course the future series in Elantris is about his followers proclaiming that he is coming back, so unless they found out how to access his power as Vin or Sazed did, then him coming back means that he is still around.

I definitely agree. I'm writing something more extensive about it right now :P
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zas678

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #145 on: July 14, 2009, 05:13:34 AM »
Here's the quote from Elantris-
Quote
The water held Raoden in a cool embrace. It was alive, he could hear it calling in his mind. Come, it said, I give you release. It was a comforting parent.It wanted to take away his pain and sorrows, just as his mother had once done.
 Come, it pled You can finally give up.
No, Raoden thought. Not yet.

I am pretty sure that the Pool is a shard, I just don't think it is connected with the Dor. There is very little passive about Dor.

About Endowment. I think that the reason that it took so long for the first Returned is because it takes a long time to learn how to make Returned (which is why Sazed wasn't able to revive Vin and Elend).

About the realms. I think that Shards have a physical, cognitive, and the spiritual. The physical is the pool, or mists, or colored smoke. It ties them to a world. The cognitive is the intellect behind the shard (Vin, Leras, Ati, Sazed, etc.) I think that the spiritual is the power of creation powering them (I seem to remember Brandon using Power of Creation in explaining how allomancy works).  

But these things can fail. For instance, when Vin and Ati fell, it was only the cognitive force behind the Shards that fell, which is why Sazed was able to embrace the 'smoke', and become the Cognitive force for the Spiritual and Physical forces.

I think what happened in Elantris is that the Dor-Shard fell (maybe by making humanity?), but there was no one to become the new Cognitive force.  So the Physical stayed (all of Opelon maybe?), and so did the Spiritual (the Dor).

But all of these are guesses at guesses.
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Chaos

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #146 on: July 14, 2009, 05:18:26 AM »
Here's the quote from Elantris-
Quote
The water held Raoden in a cool embrace. It was alive, he could hear it calling in his mind. Come, it said, I give you release. It was a comforting parent.It wanted to take away his pain and sorrows, just as his mother had once done.
 Come, it pled You can finally give up.
No, Raoden thought. Not yet.

I am pretty sure that the Pool is a shard, I just don't think it is connected with the Dor. There is very little passive about Dor.

About Endowment. I think that the reason that it took so long for the first Returned is because it takes a long time to learn how to make Returned (which is why Sazed wasn't able to revive Vin and Elend).

Many thanks for the quote.

That is an extremely likely explanation for Endowment. I just looked in the MB3 spoiler thread, and someone asked if Vin and Elend could reappear in later Mistborn series. Brandon responded with "RAFO. It's too much of a spoiler for other plotlines" (not a direct quote, but that's the general idea). Your Endowment theory makes sense.

And also, Zas, I'm finally participating in the theories again. Happy? :P
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Aranfan

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #147 on: July 14, 2009, 05:46:53 AM »
I still think the Pool was the Dor,  in the same way the WoA was Preservation.  Occam's Razor, we have a Shard (Dor) and a Shard Pool (The Pool), no other Shards or Shard Pools were introduced, so they probably go together.

Also, regarding Endowment, when was the Breath magic system discovered?  Right along with the First Returned!  Wouldn't the magic have already been known if Endowment had been hanging around, like Feruchemy and Hemalurgy (partially at least) were known in Alendi's time?  No, I think it's more likely that Endowment showed up on the Warbreaker world (do we have a name for it?) not long before the First Returned well, Returned.

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #148 on: July 14, 2009, 06:02:24 AM »
I agree, the Pool is linked to the Dor. Now, more importantly, how is it linked to the Dor.
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Aranfan

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Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #149 on: July 14, 2009, 06:08:05 AM »
I agree, the Pool is linked to the Dor. Now, more importantly, how is it linked to the Dor.

Occam's razor would indicate that the Pool is the Dor's Shard Pool.