**SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium

[Cosmic_AC]

I don't think we can apply the word "theory" to common speech, though.  I was extremely annoyed back when Harry Potter was at peak popularity and people were talking about how "Ron Weasley traveled back in time and became Albus Dumbledore" not only because it was a dumb idea but because they insisted on glorifying the dumb idea by calling it a "theory."  princeton.edu defines a theory as:

S: (n) theory (a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena) "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory"

S: (n) hypothesis, possibility, theory (a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena) "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"

S: (n) theory (a belief that can guide behavior) "the architect has a theory that more is less"; "they killed him on the theory that dead men tell no tales"

Only the final definition even comes close to the way people throw this word around, and even that is a bit of a stretch.  I see the new usage of the word as a way of tricking people into giving other ideas undeserved credence.  If you're sitting on a couch thinking that maybe Hoid is really Santa Claus (Sinterklass), you don't have a theory.  You have an idea that may or may not be true.  If it can't be disproved, has no factual backing, and frankly makes no sense, calling it a theory makes it sound better than it really is.

Refer to the following link for three examples of what some people consider valid "theories."  Particularly the last conversation:  "The creator said Mr. Muggles will never wear a trench coat."  "That's because Mr. Muggles is a dog."

FACEPALM.

[Alatar]

a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena

This is the definition which started all this "theory" thing. Of course, taking out "natural world" and replacing it for "fantasy or scifi world".
Bad thing, it degenerated to the point that any random idea is a "theory". Anyway, theories (actual fan theories) tend to be fairly developed, earning the title. Of course, there is always people who don't know how to talk (and sometimes it's us  ).

By the way, very insightful post, I see you have your ideas clear.

And, sorry for the OT (it should be less of an OT in the Hoid thread, by the way).

I feel that after the theories post, someone should take the conversation back to its original ideas. So....
Where do you all see a Shard's manifestation (id est, power or influence)?

In Elantris, I can see the Dor and the Pool, although I am not sure if they are different. I really believe all powers shown come from the Dor, and one interesting idea....
I believe the Dor is the power (according to Sazed, the body) of the Shard and the concept of Jaddeth (the sleeping buried god) is the mind of the same Shard so, ironically, both Arelens and Svordisans (please someone tell me how the names of the regions' peoples are in English) adore the same God.
It should seem obvious (because both Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth have the same root), but it isn't because Korathi and Derethi brought the concept of Unity (the original teachings) to their own different Gods (Jaddeth, a God of Earth and Domi, a God of Love).
I don't know, what do you think?

[Cosmic_AC]

A person from Arelon is "Arelene."  Not sure what you'd call a Svordish person.

I believe a comment from BS recently implied that we have seen six Shards between Elantris, Mistborn, and Warbreaker.  Since I can't imagine Warbreaker could possibly be portraying three Shards in its magic system(s), I think Elantris has two.  The pool that dissolves Elantrians strongly resembles the Well of Ascension (which was liquid Lerasium, apparently) and is therefore probably the liquid part of the Dor's "body."  Seons and Aons, I think, are the "gas" part of the Dor, and Elantris itself is the solid manifestation.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Raoden was "taken" by the Shaod when he was.  I think the sentient part of the Dor was able to "choose" him for its curse in order to heal itself.  I also think the chasm that injured the Dor's physical body was caused by Jaddeth (a separate Shard) in the first place.

We don't know much about Shu-Keseg (the father religion) yet, but I'll bet its followers are closer to the truth regarding the two Shards than the Korathi or the Derethi.  Also, ChayShan itself strongly resembles the Feruchemy practiced by Terrismen (in that the practitioner starts out very slowly and builds up speed, strength, and momentum gradually).  Aon-writing, obviously, follows after the pattern of Allomancy: something for nothing (well, no power is ever taken from living things, anyway).  It's also implied that whatever Dakhor monks do requires human sacrifice like Hemalurgy.  At least, there are many more hopefuls accepted than there are monks trained.  Whether they die by accident in the process of their intense training or are sacrificed to create a single super-soldier is as yet unknown, but... well...

[Alatar]

A person from Arelon is "Arelene."  Not sure what you'd call a Svordish person.

I believe a comment from BS recently implied that we have seen six Shards between Elantris, Mistborn, and Warbreaker.  Since I can't imagine Warbreaker could possibly be portraying three Shards in its magic system(s), I think Elantris has two.  The pool that dissolves Elantrians strongly resembles the Well of Ascension (which was liquid Lerasium, apparently) and is therefore probably the liquid part of the Dor's "body."  Seons and Aons, I think, are the "gas" part of the Dor, and Elantris itself is the solid manifestation.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Raoden was "taken" by the Shaod when he was.  I think the sentient part of the Dor was able to "choose" him for its curse in order to heal itself.  I also think the chasm that injured the Dor's physical body was caused by Jaddeth (a separate Shard) in the first place.

We don't know much about Shu-Keseg (the father religion) yet, but I'll bet its followers are closer to the truth regarding the two Shards than the Korathi or the Derethi.  Also, ChayShan itself strongly resembles the Feruchemy practiced by Terrismen (in that the practitioner starts out very slowly and builds up speed, strength, and momentum gradually).  Aon-writing, obviously, follows after the pattern of Allomancy: something for nothing (well, no power is ever taken from living things, anyway).  It's also implied that whatever Dakhor monks do requires human sacrifice like Hemalurgy.  At least, there are many more hopefuls accepted than there are monks trained.  Whether they die by accident in the process of their intense training or are sacrificed to create a single super-soldier is as yet unknown, but... well...

I was trying to part the post but... I really want to answer everything 
First, thanks for the Arelenes one.

On the second paragraph, yes, he said we have met 6 Shards, 4 excluding Ati and Leras, and that the pool is one of the aspects we have seen.

I don't think it was coincidence on the part of Raoden, neither. In fact I was wondering if Raoden would be the one to be bound with the Dor's Shard, but then I read from BS that the children are going to be the sequel protagonists, so maybe one of them (the Elantrian, I suppose) is the Chosen One.
Probably the Chasm was caused by Jaddeth, but I'm thinking that Jaddeth and the Dor come from the same Shard, and that the Dor wis attuned to the land because it is kind of imprisoned, as Ruin was. So, Jaddeth = Dor.
There is no proof of this, but just that it would be original and ironic that the "good" and "bad" guys had the same God, and that it makes as sense as them being 2 Shards, because we have so little information.

About the magic systems....
I tried to parallel Hemalurgy and Dakhor, and it makes sense when they have to burn one monk (take into account it requires one monk, not one anybody) to teleport. But it doesn't make sense that they must sacrifice novices in order to make monks, because we have Hrathen, who left Dakhor.
Also, Aons don't get something from nothing. They really work as Allomancy, fueling something from burning the Dor.
Am I dreaming or was it written that Allomancy pure gain came from the Body of Preservation itself?

Anyway, it makes sense that, having 6 Shards and 3 Worlds/Series, and knowing there are 2 (neither more nor less) in Scadriel, there should be 2 in every other World. The only other option would be 3/1, but I can't see 3 sepparate Shards in Warbreaker or Elantris.

[Cosmic_AC]

I don't think it was coincidence on the part of Raoden, neither. In fact I was wondering if Raoden would be the one to be bound with the Dor's Shard, but then I read from BS that the children are going to be the sequel protagonists, so maybe one of them (the Elantrian, I suppose) is the Chosen One.

Too obvious.  Vin was the main protagonist in the Mistborn series, but Sazed was chosen there.  It'll probably be a "supporting" character, but one that becomes fully developed as the plot moves on.

Probably the Chasm was caused by Jaddeth, but I'm thinking that Jaddeth and the Dor come from the same Shard, and that the Dor wis attuned to the land because it is kind of imprisoned, as Ruin was. So, Jaddeth = Dor.

If they're the same Shard, though, what does the second Shard do?

There is no proof of this, but just that it would be original and ironic that the "good" and "bad" guys had the same God, and that it makes as sense as them being 2 Shards, because we have so little information.

I'm more inclined to believe this is true for Warbreaker than Elantris.

Also, Aons don't get something from nothing. They really work as Allomancy, fueling something from burning the Dor.
Am I dreaming or was it written that Allomancy pure gain came from the Body of Preservation itself?

Sazed explains that Allomancy gives more than it takes because its power is fueled by Preservation's body.  He also explains that when Hemalurgy is used, net power is lost because Ruin takes some of it, and Feruchemy is somewhere between the two because net power is neither lost nor gained (this is not necessarily true in all cases, unless the Enhancement metals do something other than "enhance" things in Feruchemy).
Anyway, what I meant was that writing Aons draws from the power of the Dor, which seems to closely parallel Allomancy.

[Czanos]

Readers have met four shards other than Ruin and Preservation.

You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power.
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

What about the Shard Hoid makes use of?

As for deciding which Shard is where, the Dor is one of the Shards we've interacted with directly.

Elantris[/u] pg.463 (Hardback)]The water held Raoden in a cool embrace. It was a think alive' he could hear it calling in his mind. Come, it said, I give you release. It was a comforting parent. It wanted to take away his pain and sorrows, just as his mother had once done.
     Come, it pled. You can finally give up.
     No, Raoden thought. Not yet.

And, to help classifying the Warbreaker Shard, here's the only passage I know of mentioning it.

Warbreaker[/u] pg. 719 (v6.1 .pdf)][. . .] But above it all, he remembered standing on the other side of a brilliant, colorful wave of light, looking down at the world from the other side. And seeing everything he loved dissolve into the destruction of war. A war greater than any the world had known, a war more deadly--even--than the Manywar.
     He remembered the other side. And he remembered a voice, calm and comforting, offering him an opportunity.
     To Return.
[. . . ]
     I have seen the Void, he thought. And I came back.

Other possible Shards I can think of at the moment are Jaddeth and Nightblood, but both of those have ties to other Shards, so I can't say for sure which one I think is independent.

[Reaves]

That post really clears things up for me, thanks Czanos. Sometimes it helps if someone just puts all the facts in front of you

-Obviously as you already stated, we've interacted with the Dor Shard. 1/2 interacted directly.

-It seems to me that we have directly interacted with the Warbreaker Shard. It clearly interacted with Lightsong, and the quoted text clearly says it spoke to him. I suppose you could make a case that we are merely seeing its power, but I'm going to say this is the second we've interacted with. 2/2 interacted directly.

-Given what we know so far, Hoid must be using the power of a Shard to travel between planets. Its clearly not a Shard influencing matters, that is for sure. 1/1 power seen.

Unless there is something we are totally missing, that leaves Jaddeth and Nightblood. We have clearly seen Nightblood's power. We've seen what it can do. But, we already know we've seen the power of Hoid's Shard in action. Therefore I think we can cross off Nightblood as a Shard.

That leaves Jaddeth, and influence. Jaddeth's followers have been spreading across the globe, preparing for the war with Arelen. Something has been influencing the Svordish to attack the source of the one Shard we can be sure exists in Elantris; the Dor. In the past I've said that Jaddeth and the Dor are the same thing, but given the evidence I'm not so sure. 1/1 influence seen.

[Chaos]

Some seem to be assuming that Elantris and Warbreaker both must have two Shards on them, like Mistborn. Somehow, I doubt this to be the case. It just may not be a good idea to assume that.

One interesting thing I should mention about all Shard-magics (Meaning Allomancy/Feruchemy/Hemalurgy, AonDor, Awakening) is that they all have a "focus". That is, the Shards power is focused through something. In Mistborn, the focus is metal. In AonDor, the focus is the symbols. And in Awakening, the focus is actually the words. Just thought I'd like to bring that up From this, we can perhaps devise a strategy to decipher which magical effects are directly caused from a Shard's influence, or just the normal magics of the world. For example, the Dor pool isn't really AonDor magic (or any other Dor magic), so it's highly likely--undoubtedly certain--that is linked to a Shard's influence.

I really don't know about Jaddeth being a Shard. I'm going to save judgment on that one until another book is set in Opelon. For me, it doesn't seem likely that Jaddeth is a separate entity. So, right now, I'm going to disagree on that front.

However. Writing that just made me realize something. The Dor, I think we've all agreed, is a Shard of sorts. Yet what we also see in Opelon are the Shu-Keseg, Shu-Domi, and Shu-Dereth religions. If we presume that Domi and Jaddeth are the same entities (I forget what Shu-Keseg called their god), that could be our missing Shard. Certainly we've seen those religions influencing things, but we haven't met an actual Domi/Jaddeth entity as of yet. That could be a fit.

My logic here is that Elantris and the Dor seems inherently separate from those three religions. I gathered from the book that there was a slight schism with Shu-Domi regarding the Elantrians, and the leader of that sect--I apologize, I've forgotten his name--chose to accept the Elantrians. To me this seems like Elantris and those three religions evolved separately, possibly from separate Shards.

What do you think of that idea?

[Alatar]

f they're the same Shard, though, what does the second Shard do?

I liked the idea someone stated a few pages ago, saying they could be contrarys/complementarys. He said they could be Life and Rest (because the pool is seen as a place to take Rest, i.e. die).
I think so. Don't know if the Shard whose Power is the Dor is Life, maybe Energy, but I think the pool is Death.
Not the bad Deathlord with zombies, but Real Death, that is, a Force of the Universe. She (I always thought the voice as femenine (I suppose that's because in the book Raoden describes as parent and mother, not father) doesn't want to fill the land with Death, because where there is Life, there's Death, and without Life there will be Nothing, but not Death.
Sort of...

ne interesting thing I should mention about all Shard-magics (Meaning Allomancy/Feruchemy/Hemalurgy, AonDor, Awakening) is that they all have a "focus". That is, the Shards power is focused through something. In Mistborn, the focus is metal. In AonDor, the focus is the symbols. And in Awakening, the focus is actually the words.

True, and they also need a fuel.
Fuels are Metal / Preservation's Body (Allomancy), Dor / Energy (AonDor), Own Internal Energy (Feruchemy, ChayShan) and External Sacrifice (Hemalurgy, maybe Dakhor?).
I don't know in which group Awakening fits, because its fuel is Breath, but its external. I see it a bit like Allomancy and Preservation. Leras gave Itself to create sentient beings. Maybe the Warbreaker Shard did the same, and every human has one Breath because it is part of the Shard's spirit. So it would go into the Allomancy / Dor positive gain category. But to do someting with Breath other than creating Lifeless you have to gain Breath from other people, which seems akin to Hemalurgy..........

And one final point:
Does it seem many of we believe the pool in Elantris and the Dor are different Shard's aspects? I mean, they are not aspects from the same Shard.

[happyman]

I'm actually wondering where Jesker is fitting in all this.  They clearly know about the Dor.  People call it a primitive religion, but they know things about the universe that nobody else seems to have figured out besides the Elantrians.  And it seems to be largely separate from the other religions.

[Patriotic Kaz]

I'm pretty sure that your confused over the workings of Aon Dor... If anyone recalls when Raoden was studying it's mechanics it talks about wave length frequencies and alot of physics. Also when he first uses the earthquake slash on Ashe it makes the strongest of the incomplete Aons (Aons before the spirit of Eltantris is repaired) as the pressure was released. My personal belief is that the Aon Dor is allowing energy to flow through a rift and in amounts that are directable, whether this energy comes from a shard somewhere or from a dimension of creation ect. I don't know but it is clearly not related to Alomancy, and drawing corollaries to all of his magic systems is more or less saying an author has one style with no new tricks up his sleeve and if that is the case then why read his books... Aon Dor is drastically different from Scardiel magics and from wherever Warbreaker is... give B.S. some credit...

P.S. if you took offense to these comments TOO BAD!!! I mean sorry...

[happyman]

I'm pretty sure that your confused over the workings of Aon Dor... If anyone recalls when Raoden was studying it's mechanics it talks about wave length frequencies and alot of physics. Also when he first uses the earthquake slash on Ashe it makes the strongest of the incomplete Aons (Aons before the spirit of Eltantris is repaired) as the pressure was released. My personal belief is that the Aon Dor is allowing energy to flow through a rift and in amounts that are directable, whether this energy comes from a shard somewhere or from a dimension of creation ect. I don't know but it is clearly not related to Alomancy, and drawing corollaries to all of his magic systems is more or less saying an author has one style with no new tricks up his sleeve and if that is the case then why read his books... Aon Dor is drastically different from Scardiel magics and from wherever Warbreaker is... give B.S. some credit...

P.S. if you took offense to these comments TOO BAD!!! I mean sorry...

Well, I agree with this sentiment.  I have made it in more mild forms in the past.

That at least one shard is involved seems certain.  Other than that, I've seen little light shed on the issue.  The main thing I believe for certain is that all the magics in Elantris stem from the Dor, not from some other power.  They behave in different ways, but it seems most logical to assume they are different aspects of the same thing.

[Chaos]

I'm pretty sure that your confused over the workings of Aon Dor... If anyone recalls when Raoden was studying it's mechanics it talks about wave length frequencies and alot of physics. Also when he first uses the earthquake slash on Ashe it makes the strongest of the incomplete Aons (Aons before the spirit of Eltantris is repaired) as the pressure was released. My personal belief is that the Aon Dor is allowing energy to flow through a rift and in amounts that are directable, whether this energy comes from a shard somewhere or from a dimension of creation ect. I don't know but it is clearly not related to Alomancy, and drawing corollaries to all of his magic systems is more or less saying an author has one style with no new tricks up his sleeve and if that is the case then why read his books... Aon Dor is drastically different from Scardiel magics and from wherever Warbreaker is... give B.S. some credit...

P.S. if you took offense to these comments TOO BAD!!! I mean sorry...

Actually I was speaking with Brandon and he said those things about the focuses--"focus" was his word for it. He explicitly said all Shard magics have a focus, and said that the symbols in AonDor were that focus, and the actual words were the focus in Warbreaker. I see what you're saying, yeah, but those are Brandon's words, not mine .

Though when I was speaking to him, it did seem to make sense that the Aons "focused" the power of the Dor.

[Alatar]

What I personally believe is that all magic systems in Adonalsium's Universe come from the Shards' Energies. They are radically different in interaction and style, in the way they work and what they can do. But the Energy manipulated is the Energy of Creation.
Of course AonDor is radically different from Allomancy. But deep in their mechanics they are all the same: you take fuel and focus and get to create some effects. What these effects are and how you get to create them is different for an Allomancer, Elantrian or Awakener. But the core is the same.
And so, we can guess by their mechanics if there is one, two or more Shards involved in the world. Or that's theory, let's see if we can get it to practice....
So far, the one that confuses me more is Awakening, I don't know about you guys and gals. This one is pretty weird 

[Czanos]

Okay, so here's a theory. On page 513 of Mistborn: The Hero of Ages, Vin mentions that metal is power, and that is why neither she nor Ruin can observe it. However, all of the Scadrial magic uses metal as it's focus.

So what I wonder is if every Shard's focus corresponds to a real-world source of power. Scadrial focuses on metals, or maybe technology, Elantrian magic focuses on writing and language, and Hallandren magic focuses on words and communication. If this is the case, I have no idea what Lightweaving (Hoid's Shards magic, I assume.) does. Any thoughts?