Author Topic: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium  (Read 33546 times)

zas678

  • Level 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Job Title: Hoid Desciption: RAFO!
    • View Profile
**SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« on: December 11, 2008, 03:30:43 AM »
Ok, I think that there is a lot of speculation on the Shards of Andonalsium, but there is something going on.
Here is what Brandon Sanderson has stated in the Hero of Ages topic
Quote
Ruin and Preservation were not the only Shards of Adonalsium, though they are the only ones on Scadrial at the moment.
(Scadrial is the planet Mistborn is on)

Quote
A manifestation of Ruin's gathered consciousness, much like the dark mists in book two.  The lake was still around in Vin's era, but had been moved under ground.
Quote

You've also seen one other manifestation like this....
Such as...this?
The "lake" was barely ten feet deep—more like a pool. Its water was a crystalline blue, and Raoden could see no inlets or outlets.
If that's what you're hinting at...I never thought of the connection before! I just kept thinking of Aether of Night, and never thought of this pool at all.

Both are accurate, but the first is what I meant, as most people here don't have access to Aether.


Quote
The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself.  Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them.  These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used.  It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers.  The form of that super fuel is important.  In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal.  In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing.  In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future.  In the case of concentrated Preservation (Lerasium), it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation.  (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak--though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly.  When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that--using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself--to fuel Allomancy.  Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body.  It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose.  That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.
(Lerasium added by me)

Quote
Readers have met four shards other than Ruin and Preservation.

You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power. 
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

Something I noticed is that Ati pulls with his magic (energy lost)
And that Leras/preservasion pushes with his magic (energy gained)
Maybe we could use that to help find the other Shards?

I think it's safe to assume that the Dor is a Shard, and we met it when Raoden fell in the pool.

I don't know about the others. Possible canditates are:

Lifeless? ( I don't know who would power them. Maybe they gave people Breaths?)
Iridescent Colors (powering the returned)

Jaddeth (powering the monks of Dahkhor)

Maybe whatever powers the Smedrey Talents? (Alcatraz)


Others?

Maybe we will be able to figure out who Hoid is as well...

Zas


« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 04:05:53 AM by Zas678 »
“It’s a fun tradition.”
“So was witch-burning,” Melody said.  “Unless you were the witch.”

firstRainbowRose

  • Level 18
  • *
  • Posts: 867
  • Fell Points: 1
  • So pretty!
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 06:30:29 AM »
I'm thinking whatever makes the return is the fourth.  I agree that the dor when Raoden falls into the pool because it's active, not passive -- it shows him the truth.  The other two shards also are active.  I think that's going to be the main thing to finding them is the shards are things that seem to be inanimate interacting with the characters.
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'.  We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui.  For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'.  So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 08:00:16 PM »
It seems almost certain that the thing that talked to Lightsong is a shard.  I mean, what else would it be?  One of the Returned's special skills is the ability to see the future (just a bit).

I'm not certain about the Dor.  I'm personally more likely to view it as an aspect of a shard, or the power of a shard (rather like the mists were related to preservation), rather than the shard proper.  Maybe the thing Raoden heard in the pool was the actual shard.

Jaddeth is an interesting case.  I've mentioned in the past that I find it *very* interesting that the Raod was caused by an earthquake.  If you read through Elantris carefully, you notice that Jaddeth is consistently treated as a God buried inside the Earth, waiting for the entire planet to be converted before he will rise and reign.  I think it would be very stupid of us (political lies notwithstanding) to assume that there is no truth in these claims.  Similarly, it would be stupid to automatically assume that there isn't anything around going by the name of "Domi."  But it's also perfectly possible neither exists and there is just the Dor.  The Dor is the only confirmed supernatural power in the world (although given how carefully Brandon defines his worlds, supernatural really seems like the wrong term).
Nature hates being reified.

Llewin

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 09:31:31 PM »
Is the Dor the only confirmed supernatural power in the world?

What power made the monks in to 'demons'?

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 09:50:27 PM »
Is the Dor the only confirmed supernatural power in the world?

What power made the monks in to 'demons'?

Occam's razor would suggest that the Dor is the logical place to start.  All of the known supernatural enhancements (Dahkor monks, Elantrians, Shuden's exercise) cause the one wielding the power to glow, the Elantrian's permanently, the monks and Shuden when they are using their power.  This seems to be a property of the Dor, especially from Raoden's experience.  How the monks change themselves to be able to access it is a fair question, but it seems to me, at least, that the Dor somehow being receptive to the chants being used is as good an explanation as any.  It could just naturally be one way how humans in Opelon access power.
Nature hates being reified.

zas678

  • Level 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Job Title: Hoid Desciption: RAFO!
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 12:49:25 AM »
Is the Dor the only confirmed supernatural power in the world?

What power made the monks in to 'demons'?

Occam's razor would suggest that the Dor is the logical place to start.  All of the known supernatural enhancements (Dahkor monks, Elantrians, Shuden's exercise) cause the one wielding the power to glow, the Elantrian's permanently, the monks and Shuden when they are using their power.  This seems to be a property of the Dor, especially from Raoden's experience.  How the monks change themselves to be able to access it is a fair question, but it seems to me, at least, that the Dor somehow being receptive to the chants being used is as good an explanation as any.  It could just naturally be one way how humans in Opelon access power.


I thought that the Dor might cause the Dahkor monks and Clayshin, but then I realized that the Opelon magic is like the Scadrial magic.
You have Allomancy and Aons, that both get energy out of nowhere, you have Clayshin and Ferchemancy which draw energy from the user, and Hemalurgy and the Dahkor monks draw their energy out of someone else.

Allomancy comes from Leras/Preservation
Aons come from Dor/Domi?/Pool God?

Ferchemy is natural
ClayShin is natural?

Hemalurgy comes from Ati/Ruin
"Bone bending" comes from Jaddeth?

I think that the shining thing on Opelon is like how all the magic on Scadrial involved Metal.

Zas
“It’s a fun tradition.”
“So was witch-burning,” Melody said.  “Unless you were the witch.”

haroldthesage

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Yes I'm aware my avatar fails to match my username
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 09:50:43 PM »
Is the Dor the only confirmed supernatural power in the world?

What power made the monks in to 'demons'?

Occam's razor would suggest that the Dor is the logical place to start.  All of the known supernatural enhancements (Dahkor monks, Elantrians, Shuden's exercise) cause the one wielding the power to glow, the Elantrian's permanently, the monks and Shuden when they are using their power.  This seems to be a property of the Dor, especially from Raoden's experience.  How the monks change themselves to be able to access it is a fair question, but it seems to me, at least, that the Dor somehow being receptive to the chants being used is as good an explanation as any.  It could just naturally be one way how humans in Opelon access power.


I thought that the Dor might cause the Dahkor monks and Clayshin, but then I realized that the Opelon magic is like the Scadrial magic.
You have Allomancy and Aons, that both get energy out of nowhere, you have Clayshin and Ferchemancy which draw energy from the user, and Hemalurgy and the Dahkor monks draw their energy out of someone else.

Allomancy comes from Leras/Preservation
Aons come from Dor/Domi?/Pool God?

Ferchemy is natural
ClayShin is natural?

Hemalurgy comes from Ati/Ruin
"Bone bending" comes from Jaddeth?

I think that the shining thing on Opelon is like how all the magic on Scadrial involved Metal.

Zas


That makes a lot of sense, but it seems too repetitive. I get the feeling that Brandon will be doing it differently on each world leaving us guessing as to what comes next.
Fear my obscure references.

It makes me laugh to think of Mistborn testing metals and coming to Cesium

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 06:47:14 PM »
Is the Dor the only confirmed supernatural power in the world?

What power made the monks in to 'demons'?

Occam's razor would suggest that the Dor is the logical place to start.  All of the known supernatural enhancements (Dahkor monks, Elantrians, Shuden's exercise) cause the one wielding the power to glow, the Elantrian's permanently, the monks and Shuden when they are using their power.  This seems to be a property of the Dor, especially from Raoden's experience.  How the monks change themselves to be able to access it is a fair question, but it seems to me, at least, that the Dor somehow being receptive to the chants being used is as good an explanation as any.  It could just naturally be one way how humans in Opelon access power.


I thought that the Dor might cause the Dahkor monks and Clayshin, but then I realized that the Opelon magic is like the Scadrial magic.
You have Allomancy and Aons, that both get energy out of nowhere, you have Clayshin and Ferchemancy which draw energy from the user, and Hemalurgy and the Dahkor monks draw their energy out of someone else.

Allomancy comes from Leras/Preservation
Aons come from Dor/Domi?/Pool God?

Ferchemy is natural
ClayShin is natural?

Hemalurgy comes from Ati/Ruin
"Bone bending" comes from Jaddeth?

I think that the shining thing on Opelon is like how all the magic on Scadrial involved Metal.

Zas

They are similar in some ways.  However, there are also similarities between the magics in Opelon that you are glossing over, and some of the analogies with Mistborn are definitely strained.  For instance, the Dahkor monks bones are made out of symbols---symbols from the ancient Fjorrel alphabet.  Just like Aons are from Arelon's alphabet.  They are both alphabetic systems, which produce enhanced humans.  All enhanced humans remain enhanced at all times with no need for extra power, no known source beyond the Dor.  And IIRC we don't know that all Dahkor monks require human sacrifice to be produced.  Some effects are produced via human sacrifice, but others appear not to be.

ClayShin requires a human to concentrate, but the power does not seem to come from themselves.  The one time we have seen it used, it seemed as though it could be used indefinitely as long as the user didn't loose focus.  It seems more  like channeling the Dor than anything else.

Or at least, without more information, that theory is consistent.  It also requires fewer entities and less complications.

Also, I would find the analogies repetitive myself.  Different ways of accessing the same power sounds like a more useful device for Elantris.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 03:27:56 AM by happyman »
Nature hates being reified.

Archanon

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2008, 09:41:23 PM »
I tend to agree that Brandon is more likely to keep us guessing than to make the Elantris system that similar to the Mistborn system. The pool god/presence is probably a shard, and possibly also the thing behind the Dor.

I'd almost be willing to bet money that the Iridescent Tones/whatever you want to call the things behind the Returned are another Shard, since Lightsong actually hears them/it talking to him.

Other possibilities:
Austre? (The god that the people in Idris worship)
Domi? (Opposed to Jaddeth. Occam's razor would say that it's just the Dor, though.)
Something to do with Nightblood (It acts... oddly and powerfully. Not particularly strong case, though.)

Dount Cooku

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 67
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2008, 06:12:25 PM »
I agree with you on the Iridescent Tones, Austre, and Domi.  I beg to differ on Nightblood.  My explanation is spoilerific, so I'll put it down a line or two for those who haven't read Warbreaker.



***Warbreaker Spoiler ahead!***



It acts oddly because it was specifically created to "fight evil."  However, a piece of steel does not have the same conception of good and evil that humans do, and so it sometimes acts in strange ways.  I guess that's what happens when you have a sentient weapon. :)  But it's definitely not a shard.

Archanon

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2008, 08:24:20 PM »
Yeah, I did say it wasn't a strong case. I was just throwing it out there because Nightblood acts differently than anything else in Warbreaker, even with an in-story explanation. (And I put it wrong. I didn't mean to say Nightblood might be a shard, just that there might be some Shard that was involved in Nightblood's creation.)

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2008, 11:09:50 PM »
**Warbreaker Spoilers**

Yeah, I did say it wasn't a strong case. I was just throwing it out there because Nightblood acts differently than anything else in Warbreaker, even with an in-story explanation. (And I put it wrong. I didn't mean to say Nightblood might be a shard, just that there might be some Shard that was involved in Nightblood's creation.)

The in-story explanation seems sufficient to me, once you accept all the other aspects of the magic system.

Of course, the magic system is almost certainly related to the unique power of one of the shards---that seems like a likely way to build a universe...
Nature hates being reified.

zas678

  • Level 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Job Title: Hoid Desciption: RAFO!
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2008, 05:33:08 AM »
This got mentioned in the Hoid forum, but it applies here, so whatever.
What if Hoid is a Shard?
We have met him, and have sort of seen his influence (his planet jumping)

Zas
“It’s a fun tradition.”
“So was witch-burning,” Melody said.  “Unless you were the witch.”

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2008, 06:10:25 PM »
Here's a quote from Brandon (lifted from the Hoid thread)

Quote
You've interacted with two directly.
One is a tough call.  You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power.
The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.

If I had to guess which these are, I would claim that the one whose power we've seen would be the thing that causes the Dor.  The Dor is quite clearly a power which we have seen directly, but we haven't really seen the intelligence behind it (if the pool has an intelligence, it is probably a reflection of something greater.)
Nature hates being reified.

Comatose

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 904
  • Fell Points: 1
  • A Shard of Adonalsium
    • View Profile
Re: **SPOILERS! The Shards of Adonalsium
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2008, 08:44:35 AM »
I was thinking about how the flowers that make the dyes of hallendren (tears of...) might be a shard's body.  They grow only in one place (which reminds me of atium), and the are the centre of the hallendren economy (also like atium).
"Look, I'm just trying to change the world, okay?  I don't have time for a grudge match with every poser in a parka!"
- Dr. Horrible

"There's always another secret..."
- Kelsier