Author Topic: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)  (Read 7415 times)

shadow9d9

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2009, 05:41:00 PM »
So you think 400 and 600 pages into the final book of a trilogy requires reminders?   You think that finding 10 reminder paragraphs in 10 minutes of skimming is not significant?  How many reminder paragraphs are there total?  30-40?  This is reasonable to you?  I've never EVER encounter such blatant and repetitive reminders in a book series before.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.  261-265 is 4 pages, not 2.. close enough.  You could rationalize that they are different, but it is the same to me.  I don't like being handheld.

If the Malazan series, which is MUCH more epic in scope and book length could have very subtle and few reminders, then a simple trilogy like this doesn't need 30 per book.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2009, 05:51:11 PM »
400 and 600 pages into the final book of a trilogy may require reminders if there's something important to upcoming scenes in that book that hasn't been mentioned before in that book. I think the reminders are helpful.

I told you, 261-265 is part of the same scene and a continuation of the same thought with a different focus. If you can't tell that, you're not a very careful reader.

There are a lot of reminders because there are a lot of different things to remind about. Nevertheless your feedback has been noted.

Malazan is not accessible to a lot of people. There are already other threads discussing this about Malazan on the Books forum here. If some people like it, that's great for them. Malazan has a number of dedicated fans, but he might have more if the books were a bit more accessible.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 06:01:45 PM by Ookla The Mok »
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happyman

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2009, 06:46:42 PM »
shadow, I haven't yet looked at the pages you cited, but will tomorrow. However, you may not be aware that it's industry standard practice to repeat things from previous books to get people up to speed. Brandon might have preferred the summaries to be put at the beginning instead of the end, but Tor would not allow that. It's considered very bad form to require people to read a summary at the beginning—you're supposed to sprinkle the catchup info throughout the book instead, as Brandon has done.

You're off the mark if you're saying he shouldn't repeat things from previous books. Your wish will not be granted, because Brandon HAS to repeat things from previous books. That is the way the publishing world works. What your real complaint should be is that you don't like the WAY he repeated info from previous books, not that he did it at all. The repeated information knocked you out of the story—that's a valid criticism. Perhaps Brandon needs to work on making his catchup information more seamless. Most readers haven't minded it at all, but if there are enough readers like you who do mind it, then it could use some improvement. The same goes for any information repeated within a book. None of it is filler—it's required for plot and rhetorical reasons. If there are enough people like you who are bugged by it, maybe Brandon needs to work on making it more seamless.

Doing it in the first 20 pages is understandable.  500 pages into the 3rd book is not.  Repeating the same info within 2 pages of each other is not.  I've read many books and I have NEVER seen anything like what was in these...

Ah.  So you really did come here to criticize them.  Wow.
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shadow9d9

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2009, 07:59:24 PM »
shadow, I haven't yet looked at the pages you cited, but will tomorrow. However, you may not be aware that it's industry standard practice to repeat things from previous books to get people up to speed. Brandon might have preferred the summaries to be put at the beginning instead of the end, but Tor would not allow that. It's considered very bad form to require people to read a summary at the beginning—you're supposed to sprinkle the catchup info throughout the book instead, as Brandon has done.

You're off the mark if you're saying he shouldn't repeat things from previous books. Your wish will not be granted, because Brandon HAS to repeat things from previous books. That is the way the publishing world works. What your real complaint should be is that you don't like the WAY he repeated info from previous books, not that he did it at all. The repeated information knocked you out of the story—that's a valid criticism. Perhaps Brandon needs to work on making his catchup information more seamless. Most readers haven't minded it at all, but if there are enough readers like you who do mind it, then it could use some improvement. The same goes for any information repeated within a book. None of it is filler—it's required for plot and rhetorical reasons. If there are enough people like you who are bugged by it, maybe Brandon needs to work on making it more seamless.

Doing it in the first 20 pages is understandable.  500 pages into the 3rd book is not.  Repeating the same info within 2 pages of each other is not.  I've read many books and I have NEVER seen anything like what was in these...

Ah.  So you really did come here to criticize them.  Wow.

That is what a critique is.

shadow9d9

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2009, 08:01:21 PM »
400 and 600 pages into the final book of a trilogy may require reminders if there's something important to upcoming scenes in that book that hasn't been mentioned before in that book. I think the reminders are helpful.

I told you, 261-265 is part of the same scene and a continuation of the same thought with a different focus. If you can't tell that, you're not a very careful reader.

There are a lot of reminders because there are a lot of different things to remind about. Nevertheless your feedback has been noted.

Malazan is not accessible to a lot of people. There are already other threads discussing this about Malazan on the Books forum here. If some people like it, that's great for them. Malazan has a number of dedicated fans, but he might have more if the books were a bit more accessible.

You need to be reminded 3-4 times a book that Vin came from the streets or that she had a bad brother? 

Again, I could list every book I've read in the last 4 years and not ONE of them has even 1/4 of the reminders in these books.

Why is it that I could find 10 instances of repetition in 10 minutes of skimming a 700 page book, but none past the 20 page mark in over my last 50 books?  If this were common, it is one thing, but I have never in my life encountered such blatant and obvious repetition of such basic information.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 08:10:04 PM by shadow9d9 »

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2009, 09:47:55 PM »
The narrative reflects what the characters are thinking about. Vin's background is an important part of her character. She thinks about her past. We're inside her head. That's easy for me to understand.

If you think authors don't give reminders past the first 20 pages, you're simply not paying attention while reading other books. Or maybe—and I've acknowledged this as a possibility—maybe those authors just succeed better at making it seamless. Maybe Brandon should work on that. Personally, I had absolutely no problem with the reminders you cited. They fit the scenes they were in. They were consistent with the characters' thoughts and backgrounds.

Go ahead. List every book you've read in the last 4 years, or the last 50 books you've read. Let's see if there are any reminders past the first 20 pages.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 09:49:42 PM by Ookla The Mok »
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shadow9d9

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2009, 10:35:23 PM »
Maybe they are indeed more seamless.

I think we should leave this at the agree to disagree.

If you are still interested, I'd be happy to private msg you the list! 

Zimra

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2009, 01:01:17 AM »
Doing it in the first 20 pages is understandable.  500 pages into the 3rd book is not.  Repeating the same info within 2 pages of each other is not.  I've read many books and I have NEVER seen anything like what was in these...

Then whatever you do, don't read Talon of the Silver Hawk by Raymond E. Feist. You will hear Talon repeat the same facts about his races genocide, half the time within a page of the last mention, that you will probably go insane. I don't even want to count how many times he's referred to the fact that his people used to bathe in lakes and streams...

But anywho, the only repetition I noticed was usually Sazed thinking the same thing over and over. The rest of it I probably just glossed over. Once your mind has been burned by Feist nothing else is really quite so in your face.

Wielder

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2009, 11:07:36 PM »
Exaggeration is so much fun.
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JakobLayn

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Re: Mistborn trilogy review and feedback(Beware spoilers)
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2009, 06:11:17 AM »
I think this whole thing has blown out proportion...Shadow has the fact that Brandon has only published 5 books, 6 if include Dragonsteel. but thats not really availiable to the public, anyway, crossed your mind at all as i said in a previous thread in here. the more he writes the better his technique will be, and if it doesnt then im not shedding any tears of frustration or anger over his style so get over it all ready, Everyone Else just drop the matter i mean shadow is entitled to his/her opinion and if we dont like it or anything then just stop reading it okie day i mean gosh sounds like your about to beat shadow to the ground for saying whats on his mind.
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