Author Topic: Our theory of Metallic Arts [minor Mistborn spoilers, some images]  (Read 906 times)

Eri

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
("our" refers to me and my husband.)

I didn't want to post it in Valkynphyre's topic with my long post, it could cause confusion.

First - some symmetries. We all know than in Allomancy there are Pushing/Pulling and Inner/Outer metals.
In Feruchemy some of officially explained metals seem to store very static and simple things, like strength, memory, warmth. Some store more dynamic or subtle things, like speed (both), wakefulness and senses. Rogue-like things instead of paladin-like things. It's a bit intuitive. But it makes a pattern, so we can guess more of it:


In Hemalurgy the metals stealing Allomantic and Feruchemical powers also seem to have a pattern:


So together we get something like:


Yes, I have added two divine?/weird/whatever metals from the mysterious glyphs in the book. Look at the numbers of spikes in them and you will see, why do I think that they fit there.

So we can divide metals in each group (Physical, Mental, Enhancement and Temporal)
- by Allomancy: Internal (cognitive?) - (probably only) two (pulling metal and pushing alloy(s?)), External - the same, Divine (spiritual?)  - base metal and probably many alloys
- by Feruchemy - two dynamic (Internal alloy and external metal), two static + divine
- by Hemalurgy - one stealing appropriate Allomantic skill, one for Feruchemy and two for stealing more mundane things.

Of course, they can do more than we know.

Based on this division, our Hemalurgic hypothesis is:
Chromium - of course Feruchemical Enhancement
(Aluminium is already said to steal Allomantic)
Nicrosil - skills (skills are something you can learn by training, as opposed to knowledge). We choose to interpret "enhancement" not as "buff to magic" but more as something you can improve. Things you can learn.
Duraluminium - knowledge (meaning "things you can learn from a book") and memory

Gold - Feruchemical Temporal storage.
Cadmium - Temporal Allomancy. (These two guesses are well supported by symmetry)
Electrum - youth.
NotCerrobend - health (as stored in Feruchemy - ability to heal oneself).

And hypothesis on Feruchemy (more guessing here):
Again, we've tried not do it  like "enhancement=metamagic". Just put some cool, weird things here in a way that feels OK with all the patterns.

Chromium - insight. Filled by solving mysteries of life and philosophy. And understanding higher truths, in general. Makes you forget them. And you can't even write down, because you won't understand later. What good comes from reading things like "Be at peace with your inner self" when you don't remember what you meant?
Yes, this explanation looks complicated, but I can't do better.
Tapping it... I guess it can give you prophetic visions.

Aluminium - air, not being hungry or thirsty... Chemical needs, in general

Nicrosil - light. When you are filling it, you get darker, up to pitch black. When you tap it, you get brighter and, later, start glowing.
Main reasons for that guess:
- weight and warmth are physical constants, and this one should be similar.
- they both are useful in both ways - filling and tapping, in contrast to other metalminds, which are nice only to tap.
- the possibility to store light and color will give so very cool possibilities of Warbreaker crossovers. :D

Duraluminium  - emotions maybe? Happiness? It would be nice.

With Temporal metals Feruchemy gets even weirder.
(Gold - we know from the book - it's health. Or rather healing.)
Cadmium - perception time shift. You fill it by having you whole perception moved back in time by some amount - you see, hear etc. things that have already happened (could be useful too). By tapping it, you can see the future. Cool in books, would be terrible in an RPG. Maybe some limitation can be added to it.

Electrum - youth, pretty please? You can't get immortal without Allomancy, so it's not powerful enough for atium, in my opinion. Atium has already been kicked out of the table, so maybe electrum can get youth storing and atium something more instead?
And it'll make a nice pattern: tin steals and stores the same thing (senses). Pewter stores what iron steals (strength). Mirror in / axis: Notcerrobend steals what gold stores (health), electrum stores and steals the same thing (youth).

NotCerrobend -  being somewhere. Filling: your time perception distorts. You feel as you're sitting here for five minutes only, but it's been over an hour. So you have an hour of "being in this room" in your Electumind. Now you go adventuring and do captured by enemies, or some other distaster happens. So you use your metalmind and get something-like-teleported to said room. You have an hour to ask for help, give valuable information etc. During this hour you aren't in the prison or wherever else you've been (no bilocation). When you end using the metalmind, you appear there.

We still have no idea what do the divine metals do. Atium = universal Hemalurgy, Larasium = boosted Allomancy... but what else?

Any ideas or comments?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 11:03:44 PM by Eri »

Ari54

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 295
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • M.J. Whitehead.com
Re: Our theory of Metallic Arts [minor Mistborn spoilers, some images]
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2009, 12:06:53 AM »
What are the actual patterns you've noticed, and for which metals did you have to "guess" the symmetry? The charts look nice but I don't see what they're actually supposed to represent. edit: I don't think I see the categories in the original post in the other thread either?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 12:19:41 AM by Ari54 »

Raphael

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
  • Fell Points: 0
  • I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
    • View Profile
Re: Our theory of Metallic Arts [minor Mistborn spoilers, some images]
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2009, 12:16:55 AM »
I like the idea of storing emotions.

Ari54

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 295
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • M.J. Whitehead.com
Re: Our theory of Metallic Arts [minor Mistborn spoilers, some images]
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2009, 12:28:01 AM »
Oh, I'm blind, I see where you put them now. Which categories match up with which colours, and can you expand on what you mean by some of the adjectives? What makes a feruchemical power static or dynamic? :)

Valkynphyre

  • Level 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 226
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Our theory of Metallic Arts [minor Mistborn spoilers, some images]
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2009, 03:24:50 AM »
I've gotten a little OCD over the table of late, and feel I must post what I've worked out about the feruchemical and hemallurgical properties of the metals.

so here goes.

I'll start with an index of metals. Adjusted as little as possible from the Table of Allomantic metals posted and what has been figured out.


1. Iron                                 External Physical Pulling Metal
2. Steel                               External Physical Pushing Metal
3. Tin                                  Internal Physical Pulling Metal
4. Pewter                           Internal Physical Pushing Metal
5. Zinc                                External Mental Pulling Metal
6. Brass                              External Mental Pushing Metal
7. Copper                           Internal Mental Pulling Metal
8. Bronze                           Internal Mental Pushing Metal
9. Chromium                   External Enhancement Pulling Metal
10. Nicrosil                       External Enhancement Pushing Metal
11. Aluminum                 Internal Enhancement Pulling Metal
12. Duralumin                Internal Enhancement Pushing Metal
13. Cadmium                   External Temporal Pulling Metal
14. Bendalloy                   External Temporal Pushing Metal
15. Gold                              Internal Temporal Pulling Metal
16. Electrum                    Internal Temporal Pushing Metal
17. Atium                          Ruin God Metal
18. Lerasium                    Preservation God Metal



Simple, arranged and patterns are clearly noticeable

ok, onto feruchemy and hemalurgy

                                 Allomantic Power                                    Feruchemical Power              Hemallurgical Power
                                         Push/Pull                                                         Store                                           Steal
1. Iron                    Pull Metals                                                 Store Physical Weight           Steal Human Strength (Potency)**
2. Steel                  Push Metals                                               Store Physical Speed               Steal Allomantic Physical Powers
3. Tin                     Pull Body (senses)                                    Store Physical Senses             Steal Human Senses (Awareness)**
4. Pewter              Push Body (strength, etc.)                    Store Physical Strength        Steal Feruchemical Physical Powers
5. Zinc                    Pull Emotions (Riot)                       Store Mental Speed       Steal Human Emotional Fortitude (Stability)**
6. Brass                  Push Emotions (Soothe)                        Store Warmth                          Steal Feruchemical Mental Powers
7. Copper               Pull Allomantic Pulses                          Store Memories             Steal Human Mental Fortitude (Presence)**
8. Bronze               Push Allomantic Pulses                         Store Wakefulness                  Steal Allomantic Mental Powers
9. Chromium*     Pull External Allomantic Metals*    Store Neg. Emotions** Steal Feruchemical Enhancement Powers**
10. Nicrosil*         Push External Allomantic Metals*    Store Positive Emotions**  Steal Human Virility**
11. Aluminum     Pull Internal Allomantic Metals        Store Pain**                            Steal Allomantic Enhancement Powers
12. Duralumin    Push Internal Allomantic Metals       Store Virility**                      Steal Human Charisma**
13. Cadmium*     Pull External Time*                               Store Youth**                         Steal Human Longevity**
14. Bendalloy*     Push External Time*                             Store Age**                              Steal Allomantic Temporal Powers**
15. Gold                  Pull Internal Time                                  Store Health                           Steal Feruchemical Temporal Powers**
16. Electrum        Push Internal Time                                Store Beauty**                       Steal Human Beauty**
17. Atium              Foresight***                            Store Any Feruchemical Charge**   Steal Any Allomantic Power*
18. Lerasium*      Allomancy*                                     Store Any Allomantic Power**   Steal Any Feruchemical Power**


* Modified Since Hero of Ages (not canon yet)
** My own modifications based on observed patterns in the metals (not canon)
*** I believe these are incomplete or inaccurate based on observed patterns (not canon)

for the feruchemical stuff, I believe one of the temporal metals should store age (Cadmium or Bendalloy) And Atium store any feruchemical charge. This makes sense in my mind, but may not be canonically correct.

Also... Adding 2 spikes of the same allomantic charge to a person, when placed correctly should grant Allomantic Savanthood... savvy?

Also also, (teehee) The most powerful Inquisitor would probably have 8 steel spikes, 4 Pewter Spikes, 1 or 2 iron spikes, 5 tin spikes (1 for each type of sense), 1 or 2 zinc spikes, 4 brass spikes, 1 or 2 copper spikes, 8 bronze spikes, 4 chromium spikes, 1 or 2 nicrosil spikes, 8 aluminum spikes, 1 or 2 Duralumin spikes, 1or 2 cadmium spikes, 8 bendalloy spikes, 4 gold spikes, 1 to 2 electrum spikes, and 1 atium spike. or just simplify it to 34 atium spikes, 16 lerasium spikes and 5 tin spikes. so... 55 or 61-68 spikes. Whew, that's a lot of math that doesn't matter at all.

Also also also, (yes, I'm tired and laughing at my own jokes right now) I am one of those who holds with the Atium-Electrum Theory and based on the patterns I've worked out on the table I think Pure Atium should grant Feruchemical Powers. Probably wrong about everything here, but hey, whatever.

Which brings up a theory I just thought up. In the deleted chapters about the Well of Ascension in WoA there is a lake nearby the mountain where the Well is. It reminded me of the lake in Elantris, which is directly related to a shard. I propose this lake was atium. If this lake sunk into the ground, perhaps it became what is now the Pits of Hathsin. Also, if that area of the ground was rich in gold and silver, there is no doubt the atium produced there would be sullied with electrum. This could also explain how feruchemists came to be in the first place. Someone drank from the atium lake while it was still pure, instinctively burned it and got feruchemy. Of course, this only holds water if atium does indeed grant feruchemical powers.

In any case, feel free to dissect my list, insult my intelligence or ponder in quiet solitude. If anyone wants to make modifications, I'd love to hear about them, because this stuff is fascinating to me. (obviously.)

So,.... I'm tired. Think I'll go lie on my bed thinking of this all night. /sigh. Stupid insomnia

I'll probably modify this once I figure out what types of metal were used in the spikes for koloss and kandra.
EDIT: half of that is done.
EDIT: koloss are made with 4 iron spikes. Looks like that avenue of research is exhausted.

Also also also also, If anyone can Identify what I'm semi-quoting in my post scripts, I will award them with kudos.

EDIT:
Ugh, I've found a flaw. By my reasoning, I grouped The feruchemical power of storing health as a Temporal Feruchemical Ability, seeing how Gold is a Temporal metal, However in HoA, The HoA specifically states in one of his/her monologues that a pewter spike allowed an Inquisitor to store health, and it gave no mention of needing gold to store this health in. In any case, this may mean all Feruchemical powers are physical or mental, like ordinary human powers seem to be (unless I can think of temporal or enhancement powers normal humans have (beside virility)). Again, ugh.

EDIT: thought of two more possible human abilities that theoretically could be taken by spikes.
EDIT: ok, until we get further info from B.S. I think the hemallurgical section is as complete as possible.
EDIT: ok, got something for each of the feruchemical metals. About half the table is suppositions, but I really like how it turned out. Yes, I have been up all night obsessing over this. Yes, each of these edits are from a different modification to the post. Yes, I'm slightly insane.

Ok, now that I've moved that here, I'll see if I can explain any patterns I see.




ugh... I can't see any of the pictures and I'm not sure how to modify them.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 03:31:49 AM by Valkynphyre »
Bow before The Worldbringer, Squirrel King![/color]

Valkynphyre

  • Level 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 226
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Our theory of Metallic Arts [minor Mistborn spoilers, some images]
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2009, 03:47:02 AM »
ok, the way I've arranged them in my OP, when I was writing out the table I noticed patterns about which metals stored feruchemical and allomantic powers (in hemalurgy) , and ... ugh ... this is going to take a while to explain i think.

actually... now that I'm figuring out what you mean with your pictures, those are almost exactly the patterns I was noticing.

white- noticed patterns (directly from books)
lgray- inferred from noticed patterns
dgray- inferred from noticed patterns
black- noticed patterns (directly from books)

your first picture, grouping it by thuggish and rogueish I didn't think of, but it makes some sense.
In mine I was mostly focusing on Hemallurgic powers and the Feruchemical ones just kind of... fell into place as I noticed patterns (mostly i grouped feruchemical abilities i could think of and grouped them by pulling/pushing/physical/mental/temporal/enhancement).

For the Hemallurgy...
the darkest gray on your tables are human attributes and the others are feruchemical/allomantic attributes. you only need one of each per group of 4 metals (going by type of metals (p/m/t/e)) and you fill in where they fall kind of like a sudoku puzzle, with none being in the same column or row. If that makes any sense. (which it may not) actually, It's more like arranging them so similar categories don't touch... and I've probably lost everyone now. Think I lost me, too.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 04:01:44 AM by Valkynphyre »
Bow before The Worldbringer, Squirrel King![/color]

Eri

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Our theory of Metallic Arts [minor Mistborn spoilers, some images]
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 09:13:05 AM »
Ari54 - as Valkynphyre has noticed - black / white are patterns seen in books, grays are guesses. Light gray means "probably white", dark gray = "probably black". Sorry for not making it clearer. It was a late evening (in my timezone) when I posted it and I'm not good in explaining things in written text anyway.

On Feruchemic picture: whites are "roguish", black are "thuggish". Probably I should change the colors. I'm afraid I cannot explain how I decide which is which. Intuition, feeling?.. And the fact of English not being my home language doesn't help in explaining why.

Hemallurgy:
White is stealing metallic powers, black stealing mundane things. Again grays = guesses.
Why like this? It's not like Sudoku, more finding most symmetric pattern. We know the top half. But the pattern cannot be plain mirroring, because aluminium steals Allomancy, not duraluminium. So this butterfly-like pattern seems the simplest and most symmetric that it cam be, assuming that we need two in each group.
Why do I think it should be the most symmetric one? Well... simplicity, I guess.


One more thing: Feruchemy has a kind of 90 deg rotational symmetry:

Dynamic / roguish:
Speed: physical speed - mental speed - (we put position here, sort of time*time = space intuition) - (plot speed, so we put there the ability to give prophecies)
Some internal ability, but being a process, not a state (being strong is a state, healing or perceiving is more of a process): senses - wakefulness - healing - (emotions)

Static:
Some internal capacity: strength - memory - (maybe youth) - (air and nutrition)
Some physical constant: weight - warmth - (time, or rather time difference) - (light)

OK, now I can read [ b]Valkynphyre[/b]'s version and not feel affected by it... ;-)
The table is nice, and I would agree with electrum and bendalloy stealing metallic powers, if copper and zinc did it too. It would make a nice rotational symmetry. But they don't.
I disagree with the idea of stealing or storing beauty - it's too subjective trait. And can't pain be stored in a tinmind? Anyway I see that we have much similarities, so we're probably both close. Your guesses are overall less weird, so probably more correct.

About the image: it's not photoshoped from poster, I made it myself on Inkscape. If anyone wants a clear table (no colors, just metal signs) to use, I can post one too, in any size or in .svg (vector format).