Author Topic: July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain  (Read 1323 times)

swaindaddy

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July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain
« on: July 06, 2009, 03:36:20 PM »
Info dump alert. I know it's there and I need to fix it. Let meknow what you think and as always - first draft and all of that.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

Silk

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Re: July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 09:17:20 AM »
Something nitpicky: "Karrys smiled at the sight excited to be nearing her home." Phrased as it is, this sounds like something that should be coming from Karrys's point of view, not Garrick's.

I don't really see how the Rite of Eyes actually limits infighting; it seems to me that people would just find other excuses to fight. Which is fine, except that it sounds like Vardis believes it, which makes him seem kind of naive. If that's what you're going for, you can leave it. If it's not, you could handle it a couple of different ways: Make Vardis sound a bit sceptical about what he's saying, or perhaps add some religious decree as an incentive for people to actually follow the Rite, or something.

Actually, it seems to be that we could use this information much earlier, earlier than the Rite itself. (Or perhaps only hints of it, since then you'd run the risk of your readers feeling: Yes of course Garrick's chosen from the Rite.) I think the right bits of this information leaked earlier would help you in a couple of ways--it would keep the Rite from slapping your readers across the face, which it kind of did for me, and it would mean that you'd have to tell us less here. Because while your infodumps, if you want to call it that, are gracefully handled for the most part, there is a LOT of that going on in these chapters. A lot.

Before anyone calls me on the "for the most part" remark, yes, there was one paragraph  here that bugged me, near the very beginning of this submission. "'The First Circle, Garrik,' Vardis said, 'was a group of monks led by the son of Kenja Laenrith: Dwy’o. Dwy’o gathered four other men, all morvade. Morvade is the drolo word for those who are most powerful at manipulating the Will..."

I think maybe this paragraph just sounded a little too pedantic, when really, Vardis doesn't strike me as a particularly pedantic character.

Honestly, selecting a new heir (new king?) every ten years doesn't sound like a very good way to lead to stability in a kingdom either.

While I kind of like Garrick knowing a bit about the judgement process of the crowning beforehand, as it gives him something else to be nervous about, I don't think you need to tell us about the actual process--gathering at Threecastle etcetera. It doesn't sound terribly complex, and I think I would rather just see it in action.

How old is Vardis, by the way?

We don't really know much about the Circles that Vardis and Garrick are talking about. They have something to do with the monks, but I don't know what their significance is beyond that...

At the same time, I kind of feel like we're getting TOO much information here--too much of it all at once. This whole chapter has basically been worldbuilding, worldbuilding, worldbuilding. As I said before, I think it's mostly well-handled... but I think we're just getting too much of it at once, and possibly too much of it explained to us. I'd rather see some of this stuff unfold through interacting with the world; right now the characters are just travelling through it. It's a bit like driving down the road in a foreign city with a tour guide, except all the windows are fogged up. You're not doing a bad job here, but I think you can do even better.

I'd say you should take this information and break it down into pieces - what needs to come later, what needs to come earlier, what needs to come in dialogue, and what can be revealed through action and interaction. (Or whatever other categories you need.) Then you can break it up however's necessary. Your readers will be able to pick up the pieces. (Big blocks of information like this are usually more for us than the reader, aren't they? I've done the same thing.)

"Karrys laughed at his words but her eyes belied the fact that she was hopeful that he did take the lessons to heart." This sentence read awkwardly to me. The actual conversation they had about gossip, particularly in relation to Garrick, made me chuckle though.

In the last sentence of this chapter, Garrick says something about the weight on his shoulders pressing down on him. I think this is the metaphorical weight you've been referring to in the last little while, but for some reason, something about the phrasing of the last line made it just a tad unclear for me.

Hey look, a critique that's actually not terribly late. Also, I talk too much.

swaindaddy

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Re: July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 02:57:54 PM »
Great points all. I struggled with the last line about falling off his gorse. I'll probably change it next draft.

Thanks for all the hard work! More to come next Monday.

Right now I am heavily contemplating rewriting my first Section and reposting it as a whole before I move on with new posts. this will give me 4 more posts (another month).

My dilemma is this - much of what I need to do reflects on the rest of the story. Every submission the same issues arise and I keep pointing to the fact that I will address it later. I don't like doing this!

So - after Section 1 I will edit and repost the whole 16 chapters, then continue with the new content (which will be considerably different after the edit of Section 1). comments?
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 10:28:20 PM »
I'm kinda in the same boat as you Swain, where things that I DIDN'T do before, I now have to put into later chapters.  By all means, repost a second draft!  I look forward to reading it.

Now for this submission:

I tentatively agree with Silk on a lot of what he said: there's just a whole lot of info here.  I say tentatively, because of the way you've set things up to this point.  Yes, it would have been nicer to get some of this before- but there are only a few things that you COULD have put in earlier chapters because they hadn't met Vardis yet.  (BTW, good call, Silk, on catching that it might be the same Vardis as in the prologue!)  I'd like to see more about the Rite of Eyes, how it works, and why everyone accepts it much earlier (surely Karrys, having grown up in the capital, would know a lot about it).  But the stuff about the monks and the circles and how the Will really works- that can all be left where you've put them because they aren't, in my opinion, as crucial to the reader's understanding of your setting.  You can get away with presenting it as "magic" for quite a while as long as the audience knows how the characters should be acting and reacting. 

Notice, though, that I said "I" would like to see it.  It's your story, and you need to tell it the way you see fit.  This current approach might even work for me if I had the whole book in front of me at once.  I think one of the things that is both good and bad about this system is that we only get small parts so we're really nitpicky- but it's hard to connect them and see how they flow together unless you want to spend a few hours re-reading the entire work every time there's a new addition to it.

Other than that... I've got to say it- you really need to work on your dialogue and character interactions.  I think I've probably said this in just about every critique I've ever given you (and you have gotten a bit better).  It's quite obvious this is a first draft.  I look forward to seeing what you do with those in the second!  (hint, hint) ;) ;D

The descriptions were very nice, particularly the setup of the city and the statue of Doreala, though we don't really get a good impression of how large the city actually is.  I mean- it's got three castles and their subordinating buildings INSIDE the outer city wall-- it's got to be a frikin' huge place!  I don't really see Garrik grasping that, though there's some nice interplay between him and Dren as they ride in.

Good submission!  I'm excited to see how the ceremony plays out.
A crown does not a King make, nor the lack of one a commoner.

swaindaddy

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Re: July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2009, 12:55:55 AM »
Thanks! one thing I plan to do is - after I submit the rest of Section 1 - is to give the overall plot goal and see if that will help in the second draft. It is a great point - can't really tell what needs to happen when you don't know where I'm going.

See you Monday.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

Silk

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Re: July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 02:06:11 AM »
Just to clarify something I said earlier: I didn't mean to imply that I think the Vardis from the prologue and the Vardis we see now are different people; I assume that they're one at the same. But the Vardis we meet now seems very different, or at least presents himself as different, than the one in the prologue. This is, of course, not a problem unless it's different than what you intended... but I figured it was worth mentioning anyhow,

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Re: July 6 -Blade of the Fallen Chapter 13 - Chris Swain
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 02:19:15 PM »
Just to clarify something I said earlier: I didn't mean to imply that I think the Vardis from the prologue and the Vardis we see now are different people; I assume that they're one at the same. But the Vardis we meet now seems very different, or at least presents himself as different, than the one in the prologue. This is, of course, not a problem unless it's different than what you intended... but I figured it was worth mentioning anyhow,

They are indeed the same - I simply worked more on the character by the time he reappears. Will be alleviated!
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition