Author Topic: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)  (Read 7006 times)

Andrew the Great

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2009, 05:22:03 PM »
No, it's not referring to Lan, as Lan is Malkieri, and the top-knot is strictly a Shienar thing. However, the army that will be gathering in the north (though apparently it isn't yet) could very well be Lan's, preparing to meet the Shadow in Tarwin's Gap, where, in my opinion, Lan and most of his army will get slaughtered.

As to the rest, there's no way Rand will become the King of the World. If nothing else, Rand has absolutely no desire to rule the world. He just wants to unify the world enough to beat the DO.

I imagine Rand will live, but no one will know that he lives except for Min, Aviendha, Elayne, and Allana (If she's still alive, which I kind of doubt). Rand won't be particularly inclined to correct this impression.

Basically, Rand will want a simple life. So a farmer or a beggar makes sense, though in my opinion a farmer makes more sense.

Rand as he is right now would indeed be out of place in a time of peace. But remember, Rand hasn't always been like this, and he's going to go through some major psychological changes in the near future (ie learning laughter and tears, etc). He could pull it.

But if Rand dying is the ONLY way you'll be satisfied, as things stand there's a good chance that you'll be disappointed.
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douglas

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2009, 07:59:58 PM »
I will be very surprised if Rand does not survive.  The quote from the Finns about "if you would live, you must die" and Min's viewing that Alivia will "help Rand die" are two giant hints about what's going to happen with him.  Rand is going to "die" in a way that somehow makes it possible for him to live past the Last Battle.  This may involve a metaphorical meaning of the word "die", soul/body swapping with someone (Moridin?), Nynaeve healing him from death, or any number of other possibilities, but I think it's practically guaranteed to happen given all the various prophecies, foretellings, viewings, etc. related to it.

Andrew the Great

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2009, 09:26:32 PM »
I agree. He probably won't survive in the traditional sense of the word. But in some way, he will.
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Patriotic Kaz

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2009, 10:49:28 PM »
99% of the Aiel die not just the chiefs, Lan lives just cuz he will want to die when his wifey does, Narishma dies but takes down some forsaken doing so (come on he has Callondar) Rand dies just because everyone thinks he won't...twice! Galad kills Faine to avenge Rand though Rand is now in Moridins bod. Galad dies. Rand/ Moridin dies in the sealing of the prison, i say Luc does it. Lan kills Luc, b/c his brother lives in him. The White Tower is destroyed (I hate Aes Sedai as a whole b/c how they think little of Ashaman when the Hall of Servants was composed of both sexes.) Cadsuane dies b/c she is old. Loial i want to die against Shadar Haran, with Loial getting swatted away like nothing, which then has huge effect on everyone else (doubt Loial dies at all though).
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JCHancey

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2009, 08:02:12 AM »
My friend and I were talking about Slayer and Lan. We think it will come down to a fight in Tel'aran'rhiod.
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Publius

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2009, 02:26:13 PM »
No, it's not referring to Lan, as Lan is Malkieri, and the top-knot is strictly a Shienar thing. However, the army that will be gathering in the north (though apparently it isn't yet) could very well be Lan's, preparing to meet the Shadow in Tarwin's Gap, where, in my opinion, Lan and most of his army will get slaughtered.

As to the rest, there's no way Rand will become the King of the World. If nothing else, Rand has absolutely no desire to rule the world. He just wants to unify the world enough to beat the DO.

I imagine Rand will live, but no one will know that he lives except for Min, Aviendha, Elayne, and Allana (If she's still alive, which I kind of doubt). Rand won't be particularly inclined to correct this impression.

Basically, Rand will want a simple life. So a farmer or a beggar makes sense, though in my opinion a farmer makes more sense.

Rand as he is right now would indeed be out of place in a time of peace. But remember, Rand hasn't always been like this, and he's going to go through some major psychological changes in the near future (ie learning laughter and tears, etc). He could pull it.

But if Rand dying is the ONLY way you'll be satisfied, as things stand there's a good chance that you'll be disappointed.

Nah, the only way I can think that I'm going to be disappointed in the ending is if it ends with a HUGE cliffhanger. I just love this series! I also can't wait until BS's next series comes out, so we can have more discussions like this about another ongoing series.

It's not like I'm expecting RJ to become GRRM in the next couple books. I do believe that Rand and others will live on in some sense of the word, but not in the typical sense. I mentioned this before somewhere on this site, but this is how I kind of think it's going to end: Rand and several others will die in the last battle, everything will look bleak, and then Mat will blow the Horn of Valere, and Rand and everyone else will be resurrected and defeat the DO. This will give everyone a chance to say good byes after the battle is won. Then the series ends on a high note.

Have you ever watched the Godfather?? A Godfather ending would be cool too, but this ending doesn't have a chance of being true.  Rand battles the DO and win, but in doing so loses everything. The series ends with Rand staring over a battlefield of corpses wondering, what has he done. Oh, I almost forgot, Mat and Tuon would be staring back at him in horror before they turn and ride off into the sunset. A little bleak, but it would work.

Andrew the Great got me thinking and I think he's right. Min won't die, but will get seriously injured/maimed which I think will be more painful for Rand to deal with. That is when Rand runs away and hides as a beggar. Then Cadsuane finds him and teaches him what needs to be taught.

One more thing, Rand has three wives so if he lives I think 2 of them have to die. I suppose it could end with him having three wives, but that just seems kind of messy to me. None of the women seem compatible with each other, you have a queen, an Aiel, and a woman who sees things, so if Rand does survive two of them have to go boots up, IMO. I use the term "wives" loosley BTW.

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TMan

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2009, 09:41:12 PM »
Perhaps Rand dying but becoming one of the dream world characters (like birgitte) is a nice way to fulfill the "the live he must die" or whatever it was thingie?

TyranAmiros

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2009, 10:44:42 PM »
Perhaps Rand dying but becoming one of the dream world characters (like birgitte) is a nice way to fulfill the "the live he must die" or whatever it was thingie?

I think the Dragon (i.e. not Rand, but the soul in Rand's body) is one of these types.  One interpretation of "to live, you must die" is just that--in order for the Dragon to be spun out the next cycle of the Wheel (and thus for the turning of the Wheel to continue, Rand (the physical person whom the Dragon's soul is inhabiting) must die.

Andrew the Great

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2009, 11:14:12 PM »
That doesn't really make sense, though, since Rand's question to the Aelfinn was "How can I win the Last Battle and survive?" I suppose they could have taken it to mean how can I, the soul of the dragon, survive, but I think its much more likely to be taken how can I, Rand al'Thor, survive. Ya know?

Andrew the Great got me thinking and I think he's right. Min won't die, but will get seriously injured/maimed which I think will be more painful for Rand to deal with. That is when Rand runs away and hides as a beggar. Then Cadsuane finds him and teaches him what needs to be taught.

One more thing, Rand has three wives so if he lives I think 2 of them have to die. I suppose it could end with him having three wives, but that just seems kind of messy to me. None of the women seem compatible with each other, you have a queen, an Aiel, and a woman who sees things, so if Rand does survive two of them have to go boots up, IMO. I use the term "wives" loosley BTW.

First of all, just call me Andrew. Much easier for everyone involved  ;)

Secondly, glad to have got you thinking.

What I really wanted to discuss though, is your last paragraph. I can see all of them dealing with each other, seeing as they seem to have resigned themselves to sharing Rand. Aviendha has no problems with it, and Elayne and Min seem to have given up on having him to themselves. The problem I foresee is that if everyone does survive the last battle, Rand isn't going to want to rule the world, or much of anything for that matter. Elayne, however will be Queen of Andor, and the mother at some of his children. So that's gonna be an issue for Rand, in my mind. He's not gonna want to deal with the politics, but at the same time he's not gonna just leave Elayne and the kids behind and go live with Min and Aviendha....
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Publius

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2009, 01:45:58 PM »
That doesn't really make sense, though, since Rand's question to the Aelfinn was "How can I win the Last Battle and survive?" I suppose they could have taken it to mean how can I, the soul of the dragon, survive, but I think its much more likely to be taken how can I, Rand al'Thor, survive. Ya know?

Andrew the Great got me thinking and I think he's right. Min won't die, but will get seriously injured/maimed which I think will be more painful for Rand to deal with. That is when Rand runs away and hides as a beggar. Then Cadsuane finds him and teaches him what needs to be taught.

One more thing, Rand has three wives so if he lives I think 2 of them have to die. I suppose it could end with him having three wives, but that just seems kind of messy to me. None of the women seem compatible with each other, you have a queen, an Aiel, and a woman who sees things, so if Rand does survive two of them have to go boots up, IMO. I use the term "wives" loosley BTW.

First of all, just call me Andrew. Much easier for everyone involved  ;)

Secondly, glad to have got you thinking.

What I really wanted to discuss though, is your last paragraph. I can see all of them dealing with each other, seeing as they seem to have resigned themselves to sharing Rand. Aviendha has no problems with it, and Elayne and Min seem to have given up on having him to themselves. The problem I foresee is that if everyone does survive the last battle, Rand isn't going to want to rule the world, or much of anything for that matter. Elayne, however will be Queen of Andor, and the mother at some of his children. So that's gonna be an issue for Rand, in my mind. He's not gonna want to deal with the politics, but at the same time he's not gonna just leave Elayne and the kids behind and go live with Min and Aviendha....


When I said that Rand would be king or god-like if he survived I didn't actually mean that he would want to be a king or god. I agree with you that he's not going to want to be king or anything, he'll probably wish no one even knew his name. I think that regardless if what he wants, everyone will perceive him as a king or a god. Of course, once he gets all his memories back he may have a different world outlook. Maybe Rand and Egwene get together and merge both the White and Black Towers together, and Rand sits atop with Egwene. I don't know about that one though...that seems too much like a fairy tale to me. Rand would need to do a 180 in my mind for that ending to happen, and I'm not sure I would buy it if he did.

Of the three, Min is the one that he cares about  the most IMO because he needs her by him. Aviendha I think, is the one he cares for the least because I think he's getting burnt out on battles and she's from a warrior society.  Elayne would fall in the middle somewhere.  I'm not necessarily saying he loves one more than the other, just that if he had to rank them 1 through 3 it would be Min, Elayne, Aviendha. In other words, I think it would be a mess if they all survive.

Let's just say that Rand accidentally kills  Min. That would be a good way of showing how the Wheel of Time is cyclical, don't you think, since Lews Therin accidentally killed Illeyna? That way if he lives he chooses between Elayne and Aviendha, and if he dies he lives in the Dream World with Min. This entire scenario confuses me, especially if everyone survives.
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Patriotic Kaz

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2009, 06:11:13 PM »
Rand killing Min doesn't prove anything...the Age of Legends vs. the 3rd Age are half a wheel turn apart not a whole turn. As to "if he had to rank them" he doesn't and couldn't the golden threads prove that. Not to mention that RJ shows us that he wants the other 2 to block out their bonds when he is screwing the third, b/c Mrs. third is the only person in the world at that moment.
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TMan

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2009, 12:09:21 PM »
Rand killing Min doesn't prove anything...the Age of Legends vs. the 3rd Age are half a wheel turn apart not a whole turn. As to "if he had to rank them" he doesn't and couldn't the golden threads prove that. Not to mention that RJ shows us that he wants the other 2 to block out their bonds when he is screwing the third, b/c Mrs. third is the only person in the world at that moment.

Isn't it so that the wheel has 7 spokes or something and the age of legends and the current age are just one spoke apart? Not half a turn of the wheel by far? I think this Herid Fell (or something, the philosopher guy Min liked) explained some stuff about that...

happyman

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2009, 02:49:50 PM »
Rand killing Min doesn't prove anything...the Age of Legends vs. the 3rd Age are half a wheel turn apart not a whole turn. As to "if he had to rank them" he doesn't and couldn't the golden threads prove that. Not to mention that RJ shows us that he wants the other 2 to block out their bonds when he is screwing the third, b/c Mrs. third is the only person in the world at that moment.

Isn't it so that the wheel has 7 spokes or something and the age of legends and the current age are just one spoke apart? Not half a turn of the wheel by far? I think this Herid Fell (or something, the philosopher guy Min liked) explained some stuff about that...

I second this notion.  I'm a big fan of the idea that the fourth age will be radically different from either the Age of Myths (implied to be similar to our world), the Age of Legends, or the Third Age.  People expecting the Age of Legends to come back, in my mind, seriously underestimate the scope of the series' cosmology.
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Patriotic Kaz

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2009, 07:14:07 PM »
How did i imply the AoL was coming back soon? AoL and the third age are about as far apart as ancient egypt is from the modern era... and i believe the age of legends is more than one spoke away otherwise Rand is reborn several times a wheel turn and that he only gets screwed into being the creators champion 2 of the times.
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happyman

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Re: **Spilers** What's going to happen in AMoL (our theories)
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2009, 08:09:56 PM »
Oops.  I was more directly responding to this, which I believe TMan was also referring to, and which seems to underestimate just how long it takes the wheel to turn:

Quote
Let's just say that Rand accidentally kills  Min. That would be a good way of showing how the Wheel of Time is cyclical, don't you think, since Lews Therin accidentally killed Illeyna? That way if he lives he chooses between Elayne and Aviendha, and if he dies he lives in the Dream World with Min. This entire scenario confuses me, especially if everyone survives.

Sorry, Kaz.
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