Author Topic: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***  (Read 1169 times)

AllWrong

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« on: June 26, 2009, 12:03:18 PM »
OK, I wrote Brandon and asked him this, but seeing how busy he is, and the fact it was like my 5th email to him (he hasn't had time to answer any of them, heh) I figured I would join these forums and ask here.  Alot of you guys seem to know him, so maybe you've asked him and he's explained to you.

How is Vasher able to make himself a Drab by using all of his breath?  At the beginning of Chapter 3 is the following:

Quote
That was an effect of Lightsong’s innate BioChroma: he had enough Breath to fill thousands of people.  He saw little value in it.  He couldn’t use it animate objects or corpses; he was a god, not an Awakener.  He couldn’t give--or even loan--his deific Breath away.
   Well, except once.  That would, however, kill him.

Now, we find out later in the book that added breaths on top of the 1 Deific breath (which is enough by itself to attain the 8th Heightening) allow a Returned to Awaken.  Then there is the necessary 1 breath per week is so that their body doesn't eat the Deific breath and kill them.  We are given to understand (in the quote above) that to give up that Deific breath in any way would kill them.  So, I don't understand how it is possible for Vasher to walk around like a Drab.  How is he able to invest all of his breaths into an object?  To invest that Deific breath would kill him.  To keep that Deific breath would be to have the 8th Heightening and brighten all colors near him.

Can someone please point out the flaw in my logic?

jjb

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2009, 12:43:47 PM »
I know this doesn't answer your question, but I just assumed that for some as of yet unknown reason, the normal Returned rules do not apply to the Five Scholars.

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2009, 03:34:45 PM »
I know this doesn't answer your question, but I just assumed that for some as of yet unknown reason, the normal Returned rules do not apply to the Five Scholars.

I would be inclined to say that the Five Scholars understand the rules much better than the other returned.

Clearly Returned can be far more capable than the members of the Court of the Gods usually become.  One of their skills is the ability to modify their appearance at will.  Maybe hiding as "normal" is another aspect.
Nature hates being reified.

Peter Ahlstrom

  • Administrator
  • Level 59
  • *
  • Posts: 4902
  • Fell Points: 2
  • Assistant to Mr. Sanderson
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 04:41:19 PM »
This is dealt with in an annotation, but happyman has the gist of it.
All Saiyuki fans should check out Dazzle! Emotionally wrenching action-adventure and quirky humor! (At least read chapter 6 and tell me if you're not hooked.) Volume 10 out now!

Jurisprude

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 06:39:18 PM »
Agree.

Remember that the Scholars devoted themselves to study of BioChroma ... discovering new Commands, the 1-breath Lifeless creation rather than the 50-breath requirement, creating type-4 BioChromatic entities like Nightblood, etc.

The Hallandren gods are encouraged by their religion to know as little as possible about BioChroma and their potential abilities.

necronos

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 01:38:01 AM »
The Returneds Deific Breath is only stong enough to get them to the 5th Awakening, not the 8th.

I'm going to guess that Vasher can become a Drab for a short period of time, but would have to get his Breaths back before he needs to feast, otherwise he would die.

#EDIT#

I was thinking on this, maybe a Returned can only store his Big Breath and still live, as long as he gets it back and gets another Breath by the end of the week. If the Returned gives the Big one away, then that is it for them... just a working theory
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 06:02:31 AM by necronos »
jeremy208: #FakeKings Wow, the world's first fantasy novel written in 3-D!. The words literally jump off the page. The fight scenes gave me bruises. Ow!

eVeNtInE

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 07:02:18 AM »
Could also be a case of in exchange for giving up the huge bodies and fifth heightening given to the returned, they don't need to get a weekly breath either. That might explain a few things.....

Wolfstar

  • Level 6
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 07:02:57 AM »
Don't forget that at the end, Vasher explains that the Returned can manipulate their physical appearance based on their own perception of how they should look, and that with careful, guided thought, can take control of that process.  It seems logical to me that that mechanism could be extended to BioChromatic 'appearance' with the aura, or the lack of an aura, if that was what one wanted.
You can think without acting and you can act without thinking... but which is worse?

eVeNtInE

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 04:31:41 PM »
Ah yeah I do remember the bit with them changing their bodies at will alright, but it seemed that at times during the book that Vasher didn't have the fifth heightening at all so perhaps in exchange for giving up the powers alloted to him by his one powerful breath, he can survive without one breath a week. Just an idea. :)

little wilson

  • Level 29
  • *
  • Posts: 1634
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Hero of Ages: Preservation
    • View Profile
    • My Myspace
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 07:41:01 PM »
I'm pretty sure that at the end Vasher said that he still needed one breath a week, regardless of his appearance.

And for the original question, I agree with most who've already posted. He's found some way to hide his Deific Breath, and when he uses "all" his breath, he's just using all the 'normal' breath he has. The Deific Breath is off-limits to his Awakening, due to the Command....So when he's a Drab in his normal state with his DB hidden, he's just like the Returned in the Court of the Gods, he just doesn't look like them....He also has to make sure he doesn't stay as a Drab for more than a few days.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

flyleaffan

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2009, 05:40:19 AM »
In response to all your questions:

"There's always another secret"

We may get an answer, but I rather enjoy the fact that he doesn't answer every question. Keeps us thinking about the book after we've read it.

Can't wait till Way of Kings!

necronos

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2009, 06:46:39 AM »
I guess you're right, there really is always another secret. I was just contemplating Denth and how he too must be Returned, since I believe he too was one of the 5 Scholars. He only ever had one Breath (at least from what we learned from Vivenna) so that just creates more questions.

I can't wait for the annotations!
jeremy208: #FakeKings Wow, the world's first fantasy novel written in 3-D!. The words literally jump off the page. The fight scenes gave me bruises. Ow!

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2009, 08:10:11 PM »
Actually, I was just rereading Warbreaker, and Vivenna asks these very questions.  Vasher doesn't answer (he explicitly requests that it be kept secret), but I think we can assume Brandon knows the answer.  The main point to learn is that the Returned in the court of the gods don't know everything, or anything like it.

There are other interesting questions.  Like "How did the first Returned have a child?"  The priests don't believe it, but Vasher and others who have studied it in much more detail take it for granted that it is true, and I frankly trust them much, much more.  Besides, Denth shows hair-changing abilities at the end, just like the royals.
Nature hates being reified.

firstRainbowRose

  • Level 18
  • *
  • Posts: 867
  • Fell Points: 1
  • So pretty!
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2009, 06:12:43 AM »
I don't know if it will help much, but check out the original discussion on the warbreaker topic.  I know that a couple of those things were discussed (I can't remember how much exactly was said though).  Maybe it might help answer some questions?
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'.  We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui.  For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'.  So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

ryos

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 824
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The Decemberween Thnikkaman
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Question ***Spoilers***
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2009, 08:53:15 AM »
Treledees said that the God Kings can pass one their wealth of breath (IOW, the breaths they have above and beyond the single deific breath) without dying. Apparently they can also do so without needing to speak (possibly a 10th heightening ability). Sadly, he died before he could explain how this is done.

Anyway, if the priests know how to do it, you can bet your boots that Vasher does too. He may have even taught them how, way back when.
Eerongal made off with my Fluffy Puff confections.