Author Topic: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown  (Read 4107 times)

Aranfan

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2009, 01:21:30 AM »
And where have we seen an impenetrable force field/shield in Elantris?  Chapter and page number please.


Also, curious?  Vin is downright paranoid, she's also too good of a person to not be repelled by Nightblood like those two mooks were.  Several other characters like Saze and Raoden would have no interest in Nightblood.  Whether Marsh is attracted depends on how Nightblood's aura and Hemalurgy interact.

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2009, 01:59:54 AM »
Indestructible walls, whether they're visible or not qualify as impenetrable force fields, right? Citation: the city of Elantris before the earthquake.

Vin's so paranoid that she wouldn't touch a sword because it was just sitting there acting suspicious. Right. Since none of the worlds we have visited so far have any concept of cursed items (including people in Warbreaker, seeing as how only a few people know about Nightblood), nobody would have any reason to be suspicious of a sword. As for Raoden and Sazed, they are scholars. They study things, which often involves touching said things.

Should it be a gladiator-style fight, and the contestants enter the arena at the same time, Vasher merely has to use any means to make his opponent touch the sword for a split second. He would probably be able to talk most of them into it. Especially since he can appear however he wants. :)
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little wilson

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2009, 02:04:20 AM »
When talking about Nightblood, you have to remember Viv's reaction to the sword. She didn't know about the sword at all, and there was Vasher telling her to pick it up. She felt nauseated even being near it, because of her goodness. The same would happen with quite a few of the others. I think Marsh would be taken down by it--I think the whole nature of Hemalurgy would make the person "evil" enough for Nightblood to kill.

But yes. Vin, Raoden, Saze, Spook, Viv, and Seb would be repelled by the sword. You might even be able to throw Kell in there. Maybe. Or possibly even Rashek, but Kell would go in before Rashek would. It depends on how intentions work. Would Kell's reasons for killing so many nobles matter? Would Rashek's reasons for being a tyrant matter--since he was trying to contain Ruin.

As for the question about Vin's coins. I was thinking Raoden would be able to transform any of them. Figure out a modifier to turn them into something harmless. Aon Shao is actually not that intricate. There are MANY other more complicated Aons. A Protection Aon I imagine could work fairly well too. And that's a VERY easy Aon. It might not put up a really strong shield, but it would probably be powerful enough to block a few coins that Vin shot out. And to take her down, Aon Daa is pretty simple, in comparison to some of the other offensive Aons (Aon Daa is energy. It's the one used at the end in Teod, to take out a whole ton of the monks on the docks).
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Aranfan

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2009, 02:15:15 AM »
Indestructible walls, whether they're visible or not qualify as impenetrable force fields, right? Citation: the city of Elantris before the earthquake.

Chapter and page number where it says Elantris' walls are indestructible? Not to mention that Elantris is clearly a very intensive project, and might have wards that a single Elantrian can't make alone.  Frankly, there have been no indication of impenetrable magical barriers in Elantris.

Vin's so paranoid that she wouldn't touch a sword because it was just sitting there acting suspicious. Right. Since none of the worlds we have visited so far have any concept of cursed items (including people in Warbreaker, seeing as how only a few people know about Nightblood), nobody would have any reason to be suspicious of a sword. As for Raoden and Sazed, they are scholars. They study things, which often involves touching said things.

Frankly, yes, she is.  Remember that Nightblood's aura makes good people want to not touch it.  And Raoden and Sazed wouldn't take time to examine a sword while in a fight.

Should it be a gladiator-style fight, and the contestants enter the arena at the same time, Vasher merely has to use any means to make his opponent touch the sword for a split second. He would probably be able to talk most of them into it. Especially since he can appear however he wants. :)

Bullshit.  Most of the people here are smart enough to wonder why their opponent is trying to get them to touch his weapon instead of just using its sharp parts on them.











@Wilson, yes, exactly my point with Nightblood. 

However, Daa seemed to me like a straight firing, unaimable thing.  It has only been used in barrages with many people firing them after all.  And have we actually seen what Aon Shao does?  If it's so useful, why didn't he use in in Teod?

little wilson

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2009, 02:58:18 AM »
I'm pretty sure Aon Shao was what changed Dilaf's lady-friend. And it's also what Raoden and Galladon used to look different. I imagine modifiers could be put on the Aon to target other objects. I'm not positive about that, but AonDor seems versatile enough to allow that.

Regardless, Raoden would need more time to learn the individual power of the Aons, and the different modifiers that could be put on to get the Aons to do EXACTLY what he wants. By the time that he gets to Teod, he hasn't really had much time to do that. Give him some more time to experiment and I think it becomes possible.
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Aranfan

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2009, 03:04:31 AM »
I thought it was an incorrectly drawn healing Aon that messed up Dilaf's wife?  And Aon Shao is useless for protection, as proved when Serene takes a sword to Raoden's face (If you have correctly identified what Shao is used for).

We haven't seen any protection Aons in action yet, so we can't really say how useful they would be against an Allomancer of Vin's caliber. 

zas678

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2009, 03:20:18 AM »
There is a protection Aon, but it's not portable. Raoden tries to use it in the alley, but Dilaf makes it disapear with his Anti-Dor powers.

Also, reason for fighting.... hmmm.... The Voidbringers (sorry they are the only ones that may be advanced enough to be able to do it) bring everyone together and says that they are going to destroy loser's planets, but the winner's planet will survive.

There. That's motivation.

Although, who knows. Denth may not care to fight, as long as Vasher dies. That's all that Denth has been trying to do for the last 300 years.
And Marsh is a whole different case... let's say that they threatened to destroy all of the atium in the known universe. And they told Marsh that they would destroy the world if he won.

So, for experience...... Denth and Vasher right before their big fight (Vasher with all his breaths)
Raoden with 3 years of experience
Vin and Marsh right before the big Duel with the Inquisitors
Spook pre-spike
Suseborn with tongue,
Sazed with normal Furchemal amounts,
TLR before his encounter with Vin,
Dilaf and Kelsier with normal.

I say that it's in a huge coliseum with tapestries. Lots of Tapestries. But also Rocks and Obstacles in the middle. And everyone has weapons that they would normally have (Vin, obsidian knives and coins, Vasher with Nightblood, etc)

Ooh! I have an idea! Also all of the bodies are just left in the wide open.... were anyone can get them.....
But no magic for Lifeless!

Let's say that the Voidbringers arranged a way to make it so Raoden has inside-Elantris power.
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sortitus

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2009, 03:50:38 AM »
I think that you underestimate Nightblood's power and Vasher's cleverness. We have no examples of non-Awakeners being repulsed by Nightblood. Of course, Nightblood could kill everyone in the tourney and only Raoden could destroy Nightblood. Either Nightblood or Raoden win. An inanimate object is allowed to win, right? (I was originally going to say in my first post in this thread that Nightblood would win, but decided that since Vasher was Nightblood's owner, I had to make Vasher the winner.)

The point isn't whether Elantris' walls are indestructible (they were enhanced with Aons, but I don't know if Brandon said which ones), but if a simple barrier can be raised quickly enough to prevent being shredded by a maelstrom of coins. Aons are a very nice all-purpose magic, though they take a comparatively long time to use. It's usefulness in a dogfight is probably pretty much limited to precautions taken beforehand.

Of course, this is all assuming that we take each character at the point in their life that's most entertaining to us as viewers without threatening our favorite's chances. All in all, the Hero of Ages wins hands down. :P
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With Zas' criteria, I have to vote for TLR. There's no mist for Vin to use (doesn't matter, as her earring is standard equipment for her), so she loses, and nobody can kill TLR without the power of a god to rip his age spikes out.
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Plasman

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2009, 03:59:13 AM »
i voted we postpone further judgement on an elantrian's fighting potential until the elantris sequel. hopefully we'll get more experience with AonDor then. ugh that'll be quite a while huh?
maybe i should start pulling for sazed and feruchemy to beat everyone. push the argument in a new direction...

and i apologize, little wilson. i didn't me to offend
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little wilson

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2009, 04:13:07 AM »
Plas--it didn't offend me. I'm used to it. "He" is pretty much a default in internet language, so I think all girls get mistaken as a guy eventually....

And waiting? But it's fun talking about this! It makes me think about the Aons and hypothesize about what they can do, and how they might interact. And I actually really am thinking about it. It may SEEM like I'm gunning for Elantris the whole way and not even really seriously considering the other systems and players, but I am....(And it's not that Elantris is my favorite. Mistborn wins that...). Plus, the Elantris sequel is over 5 years away. That's a long time to wait....

Aranfan--I didn't say Shao would protect. Aon Edo is the protection Aon. And yes, it was an incorrectly drawn healing Aon. But I think the mistake must've been something that turned it into a different Aon--because I thought when mistakes are made, the Aon just dissipates. I could be wrong about that.

EDIT: And Zas, tapestries? Totally reminds of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. "This is a castle and there are many tapestries. But if you are Scottish Law then I am Mickey Mouse!"
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 04:21:51 AM by little wilson »
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Plasman

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2009, 04:33:40 AM »
i think we may be underestimating feruchemy. what would happen if a feruchemist squeezed ALL their reserves (useful ones) out in a single second. speed, strength, weight, senses, and the almost always forgotten mental speed. essentially time would slow down to almost stopping for that feruchemist. what's easier than beating a frozen opponent?
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Aranfan

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2009, 04:38:07 AM »
I think that you underestimate Nightblood's power and Vasher's cleverness. We have no examples of non-Awakeners being repulsed by Nightblood.

We have no examples of non-awakeners being attracted by Nightblood either, if we use awakener to mean someone who can awaken given enough Breath. 

With Zas' criteria, I have to vote for TLR. There's no mist for Vin to use (doesn't matter, as her earring is standard equipment for her), so she loses, and nobody can kill TLR without the power of a god to rip his age spikes out.

Vin doesn't need the mists for that, she can just use Duralumin.  Remember, it's a question of sheer power being able to pull things out of the body.  TLR tore Vin's earring out without drawing on the Mists, so a Duralumin fueled tug should be able to take out his bracers.



@Wilson, we haven't seen Edo in action.  Without seeing it in action we have no basis by which to judge its effectiveness.  We'll just go back and forth over whose speculation is most or least unfounded.  Going by what has been shown so far however, Vin wins.  



@Plas, I'm not sure Mental Speed works that way.  And if a Feruchemist did pull a stunt like that and their opponent doesn't go down, they're SOL.

Plasman

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2009, 04:47:55 AM »
how else would it work?
and true it is a gamble. but i figure if you can't win when u think as fast as a supercomputer, move faster than the eye can track,  and have the strength of... a lot, you don't deserve to. and this is a one on one competition...
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Czanos

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2009, 08:20:49 AM »
After thinking it out a while, I don't see any fair scenario where The Lord Ruler doesn't win.

First off, we have seen how Mental Speed works. Somewhere around pg. 568 in the hardback Well of Ascension, Sazed uses Zinc while fighting Marsh. Earlier in the fight he uses it as well, and can accurately predict the trajectory of Marsh's lamp. Finally, Sazed is filling that Zincmind earlier in the book, and he says his thoughts feel slowed and bogged down.

Second point, an Allomancer of the Lord Ruler's caliber can push on metals inside other's bodies at will. Unless one of these participants are anemic or have another similar condition, pushing on the bloodstream seems like an effective tool to me.

Final two points, Brassminds actually warm up the user, and Sazed says that a Burned Feruchemical charge releases the power tenfold. (Probably a very general assumption, but gives a ballpark range to work off of, as the only other time we might possibly see the combo in action is when the Lord Ruler moves inhumanly fast while fighting Vin. But that could just be Feruchemy, or tenfold speed.)

So in the end, when the Lord Ruler is fighting an Allomancer or Feruchemist; he uses Steelpushes, Zincminds, Ironminds, Goldminds, and Atium/Electrum to defeat them. While facing down an Awakener; Steelminds, Zincminds, Goldminds, Pewterminds, and Atium seem enough to handle most causes. If he does get entangled in an Awakened object, Burning a Brassmind and Goldmind/Pewtermind together should heat the body up sufficiently to set the object on fire, while staying alive. Finally, while facing down an Elantrian; Steelpushes and Ironpulls on the limbs to prevent Aon drawing, or to crush them against their own impenetrable wall, Zincminds or Atium to determine what they are doing and how to counter it, Soothing to distract them if necessary, etc.

As for Nightblood, I think Rashek might be too arrogant to pick up the sword. Why would he need a sword? I see a much more likely possibility of the Lord Ruler Rioting Vasher's anger and causing Vasher himself to draw the sword, then either Steelpushing it out of the way or using other methods to avoid Vasher until Nightblood does the job.

I suppose Raoden could set up a perpetually active metal-transforming Aon, but that smacks a little too much of forewarning on his part, and the Lord Ruler with the same amount of foresight could probably pull off a victory from afar using metal-launched objects, or by crushing Raoden into the ground if he was close enough.
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Aranfan

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Re: Ultimate Brandon Sanderson Showdown
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2009, 03:57:17 PM »
Czanos, you are absolutely correct except for the case of Vin.  Vin knows how to take him down extremely quickly, and with Duralumin is strong enough to do it without the mists. 

I don't quite agree with you about Vasher and Nightblood, but I could see TLR waiting until after he's disposed of Vasher to get his trophy.