Mistborn 3 Annotations Discussion *Spoilers*

[Eerongal]

There is another small point here; the Inquisitors have been physically altered by Hemalurgy.  They are pale, abnormally tall (they look stretched out, actually, and IIRC, it gets worse the more spikes you have), and their voices seem to change as well.  We need to learn how many spikes it takes to begin physically twisting the body.  A single spike just doesn't appear to be enough.

my guess is that each spike brings it about little by little, probably based on strength/size of the spike

[Chaos]

It also depends on what the metal is imbued with. Allomantic and Feruchemically imbued (see, this is why the word "imbued" is so excellent, for the distinction) alter the body less than a spike which steals Preservation itself, which will alter the body far more (ie: what happens to koloss).

Scadrial Theorizers for Proposition 1: Imbue instead of Charge for Hemalurgy! 2009.

Not exactly a bumper sticker worthy name.

[Eerongal]

Scadrial Theorizers for Proposition 1: Imbue instead of Charge for Hemalurgy! 2009.

Stay tuned for chaos' pep-rally to raise awareness next month.

[Chaos]

And then we'll all write a petition and send it to Brandon. Possibly Peter.

[happyman]

So does that mean that Penrod would be considered a Inquisitor, since his spike went through his heart?

I think the point that they become Inquisitors is when Ruin (or a duralumined  Allomancer) can take control of your body. 

No, what happyman means, I believe, is that Penrod isn't an Inquisitor, since losing the spike just makes you bleed to death (bleeding to death is damage incident to losing the spike), rather than the actual loss of the spike kills you.

The point about taking control of your body is an interesting one. Certainly that's a good distinction, because it marks when you have enough spikes that there are "holes" in your mind Ruin/Allomancy can take over. The question is, what is this point?

I think that Ruin's control, like the physical changes, is gradual.  After all, Vin was controlled through her earring, but only weakly.  Because of this, I suspect this is not a useful criterion.

[Chaos]

True. So let's be specific. There is a gray area in between human and Inquisitor, but this much we know.

Definition, Inquisitor: A Hemalurgic construct with eleven (possibly nine, requires confirmation) spikes, minimum, which are imbued with Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities. May include more spikes.

Definition Koloss: A Hemalurgic construct made from two[?] spikes imbued with the power of Preservation.

Definition Kandra: ... I actually don't know what kandra are. Sure, it's a mistwraith granted sentience, but how did the Lord Ruler specifically create mistwraiths?

These are the constructs we know, at least.

[Eerongal]

So does that mean that Penrod would be considered a Inquisitor, since his spike went through his heart?

I think the point that they become Inquisitors is when Ruin (or a duralumined  Allomancer) can take control of your body. 

No, what happyman means, I believe, is that Penrod isn't an Inquisitor, since losing the spike just makes you bleed to death (bleeding to death is damage incident to losing the spike), rather than the actual loss of the spike kills you.

The point about taking control of your body is an interesting one. Certainly that's a good distinction, because it marks when you have enough spikes that there are "holes" in your mind Ruin/Allomancy can take over. The question is, what is this point?

I think that Ruin's control, like the physical changes, is gradual.  After all, Vin was controlled through her earring, but only weakly.  Because of this, I suspect this is not a useful criterion.

Maybe we could consider it at the point where ruin can take DIRECT control of the person in question. For example, Vin was "controlled" through her earring by being manipulated verbally, where as Marsh was physically unable to do things under his own power.

Though that just shifts the question to "When can ruin physically control you?"

[Chaos]

Perhaps we should avoid the matter of Ruin entirely and just speak from an Allomantic perspective. When can Allomancy take over a person's body? That seems less vague and more defined, though the strength of the Allomancer would obviously be a factor.

[Eerongal]

Perhaps we should avoid the matter of Ruin entirely and just speak from an Allomantic perspective. When can Allomancy take over a person's body? That seems less vague and more defined, though the strength of the Allomancer would obviously be a factor.

Good point, i'm sure ruin has the ability to control someone long before any old allomancer.

[Chaos]

That and Ruin has subtly on his side. From what it seems with Allomancy, you can't talk into someone's mind like Ruin can. It's all or nothing.

[Patriotic Kaz]

It's two spikes for Kandra and four spikes for Kolos isn't it?

[Eerongal]

It's two spikes for Kandra and four spikes for Kolos isn't it?

I think you're right. Though, that makes me thing....

what if you have a less-than-fully spiked human/koloss (3 or less) or kandra/mistwraith (1)

(i'm going off on a lot of tangents recently it seems.)

[happyman]

.

It's two spikes for Kandra and four spikes for Kolos isn't it?

I think you're right. Though, that makes me thing....

what if you have a less-than-fully spiked human/koloss (3 or less) or kandra/mistwraith (1)

(i'm going off on a lot of tangents recently it seems.)

They're all related, though.  If Inquisitors/Koloss are separate species, when do they separate?  It's all one question.

I think that each Koloss has four spikes, two pairs.  Each pair was made from one human.  The Kandra each have a pair, made from one human.  Kandra are mistwraiths which have had hemalurgic spikes placed in them.

Because the Kandra are made from mistwraiths, the question of humanity is moot.

I still like the "removal kills" criterion, with the caveat that it must kill hemalurgically.  After all, real speciation is also a continuum but we have the "can't reproduce" criterion as generally useful.   I think this is actually the most realistic approach; it is a continuum and so we have ambiguity, but the point of no return is special.

[Patriotic Kaz]

They are pairs but you still have to kill 4 people to make a Kollos and 2 to make a Kandra (one person can only fuel on spike)

[gambler]

Hi all, I just recently finished the Mistborn trilogy and had one bit of confusion.  This seemed like the thread to put it, since Brandon Sanderson just did an annotation for the chapter that I had a question about (Chapter 55 in the third book).

Just what (or who) WAS the body that fell when the Mist Spirit/Preservation 'died'?  I don't have the first book (a friend is borrowing it) but something in the description made me think it was Kelsier's body but that raises more questions.