Patrick Rothfuss

[Renoard]

I'm not sure that characterizing it as "Eternal Apprentice" is a just treatment.  I'd be interested in specifics that lead to that conclusion.  Would you characterize the Character arcs of Nynaeve or Galad as "Eternal Apprentice"?  I'm just curious because I got a very different take on it. I saw it as partly derivative, but it seemed to me the source probably Sam from Song of Fire and Ice (which is derivative of Tolkien BTW).

[Shaggy]

Could someone help me out and explain this "Eternal Apprentice" thing, please? I tried googling it and stuff but I'm not getting anything relevant or at all helpful, really.…

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Sam from Song of Ice and Fire? I...don't really see that in Rothfuss.

I may be using the term incorrectly—when I use it I may be thinking more of bildungsroman or even just the standard hero's journey.

Bildungsroman (Wikipedia):

The protagonist grows from child to adult.
The protagonist must have a reason to embark upon his or her journey. A loss or discontent must, at an early stage, jar him or her away from their home or family setting.
The process of maturation is long, arduous and gradual, involving repeated clashes between the hero's needs and desires and the views and judgments enforced by an unbending social order.
Eventually, the spirit and values of the social order become manifest in the protagonist, who is ultimately incorporated into the society. The novel ends with the protagonist's assessment of himself and his new place in that society.

The societal relation stuff may not figure (we haven't necessarily gotten far enough into the story yet), but the rest is there.

Hero's Journey (Wikipedia):

The Call To Adventure – "A blunder – apparently the merest chance – reveals an unsuspected world, and the individual is drawn into a relationship with forces that are not rightly understood."
After the hero has accepted the call, he encounters a protective figure (often elderly) who provides special tools and advice for the adventure ahead, such as an amulet or a weapon.
The hero must cross the threshold between the world he is familiar with and that which he is not. Often this involves facing a "threshold guardian", an entity that works to keep all within the protective confines of the world but must be encountered in order to enter the new zone of experience.
The hero, rather than passing a threshold, passes into the new zone by means of rebirth. Appearing to have died by being swallowed or having their flesh scattered, the hero is transformed and becomes ready for the adventure ahead.
Once past the threshold, the hero encounters a dream landscape of ambiguous and fluid forms. The hero is challenged to survive a succession of obstacles and, in so doing, amplifies his consciousness.

Etc. etc. You can see aspects of all that in Name of the Wind, though some less literally than others.

There are reasons these stories often do well. They resonate with us; they're part of our culture. But they're definitely not new.

[Renoard]

Learning-Journey Romance?  That I can buy, though Rothfuss might be more a Kunstlerroman (Artistic-Development Romance). 

But yeah:
Young, effeminate, love-staved boy is thrust into life imprisonment for no other reason than his father despises him.  Finds love, and a masculine core, then is allowed to develop the scholarly discipline that he's craved since a child.  All told against the backdrop of the social and political upheaval of a socially backward nation in civil war?

Sounds like Sam's character arc to me.

As for parallels:
Kvothe was from a good family   Sam was from a noble family.
of free self employed
entertainers.
Kvothe was separated from his    Sam was violently discarded.
family by violence.
Kvothe lived on the streets as a   Sam is imprisoned for life
criminal.                                            with criminals.
Kvothe takes advantage of            Sam takes advantage of
relationships to get into college. relationships to go to college.
Kvothe develops a love affair       Sam. . .
with an outcast.

It goes on ad nauseum.

Kvothe's parents were killed, while Sam is ophaned by the loss of his mother and disownment by his father.  And of course in any comparison there will be discrepancies as well.  But then were aren't accusing anyone of plagerism.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Um... Kvothe effeminate? His father despises him? A socially backward nation in civil war?

None of that is true. Did you read the same book I read?

Kvothe was from a poor family. Sam was from a rich family.
Kvothe's parents are dead. Sam's parents are alive. (Last I remember.)
Kvothe lived on the streets and had to scrimp for food. Sam became a steward whose food was provided for him.
Kvothe is smart enough to get a scholarship. Sam I really don't remember why he was going to that school, but Rothfuss had written the book by the time that Martin novel came out.
Kvothe pines after a smart girl who changes identities often. Sam falls in with a simple girl who just wants to take care of her baby.

[Renoard]

Sorry I think you might have misread the post.

Young, effeminate, love-staved boy is thrust into life imprisonment for no other reason than his father despises him.  Finds love, and a masculine core, then is allowed to develop the scholarly discipline that he's craved since a child.  All told against the backdrop of the social and political upheaval of a socially backward nation in civil war?

This applies to Sam's character arc which I was suggesting might be more Kunstlerroman not kvothe or both.

The parallels list is where I drew parallels.

I'm fairly certain there is only one Name of the Wind by a Patrick Rothfuss?  It really must have been the same book.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

You said Rothfuss was kunstlerroman...

Post updated.

[Renoard]

Ah so I did. Thank you for the correction.

But none of this is getting text written, so off to the grind-stone.

[Chaos]

Here are the second and third parts of the interview, which I found better than the first part.

[Bookstore Guy]

what i was meaning by "treatment" was the phenomenon that most 2nd books in a trilogy suffer from sequel-syndrome. many authors use it as only set-up for the 3rd novel and dont really accomplish anything in book 2. Many times books 2 is filler. it is a pretty common occurrence in trilogies. I hope it doesnt happen to Rothfuss, and he seems like he knows what he's doing. I mean, he wrote the whole draft forever ago, so he knows what's gonna happen.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Rothfuss himself has admitted that he's not a good plotter. He's a storyteller. The first book ended at a rather arbitrary point; it didn't have much of a climax per se—the draccus thing was probably the most climactic, but he didn't even add that until the last draft so it wasn't part of the original plan.

I expect the second book to be more of the same—great story but not much in the way of traditional plot structure.

[EDIT: Looked up spelling of draccus.]

[Shaggy]

I agree with Ook. Few of the parallels you (Renarod) drew are based on correct info.

Oh, OK…(@ Bookstore Guy) I doubt that'll happen, though, because since he originally wrote the draft intending it to be only one book, none (or at least a very small amount of it) would be filler.

[Bookstore Guy]

like i said, it's paranoia.

[Shaggy]

what is?

[Peter Ahlstrom]

I wouldn't be surprised if if gets cut down quite a bit however. This was a draft after all. My fear is that it will get the "middle book in a trilogy" treatment. I don't think Patrick will let that happen, but I'm paranoid.

His fear about Wise Man's Fear is paranoia.