Author Topic: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1  (Read 1645 times)

Renoard

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18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« on: May 18, 2009, 12:43:09 PM »
Rated VS for violence, humiliation and some nudity.

Be kind.  I cracked a molar in half.

No I don't really mean that.  I'm looking for honest coherent critique.  But I did crack the tooth. :)

In this submission, Our Hero get some fresh insight into his captivity.  He also gets some rude surprises.
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 03:43:33 AM »
Ooo, cracked molar!  That can't be fun... :P :-[  Hope you can get to the dentist soon!

Ok, from the beginning.  First problem- at the end of Ch. 3 he's (we don't actually know his name, yet, do we?  I can't recall it...) close to despair, and certainly very weak.  At the beginning of Ch. 4, however, he seems much more lucid and the despair has apparently left with no warning.  Now, I've had random and (apparently) sudden mood changes, but this does seem like a little much.  At least tell us that his mood is changing.

I really liked the interlude with the Presence- you did it well and it came across as very peaceful and sustaining.  The bit about the vermin was nicely done too!  One thing though- after his blessing to them "Go away" seems a little... off.  The juxtaposition of poetic language and dismissive command was jarring.  "Leave me" might be a better way to go.

Similarly, the passage beginning "The premonition was certainly appreciated..." (right after the second prayer) feels like it should have more of an internal thought lead-in.

"Bitterly" implies resentment, but there is nothing to indicate a cause for such in Gildad's demeanor or behavior.  Sneering, however, is right in line with his characterization.  But then, you go on to apparently reverse their characterizations as "good cop" and "bad cop" with Brahmgal being the main antagonist and going all crazy over MC's nodding an answer instead of speaking. ???

You say that his legs have already started to atrophy, but there's really no indication how long he's been in the cell.  I would assume several days, but that doesn't seem long enough for that to happen- but then, I haven't researched how long it takes muscles to atrophy.  You could also indicate that it might be from a combination of disuse and general abuse, though, and that would make more sense to the casual reader.

I would mention that they pause in the anteroom for some obscure purpose before going into all the detail.  It was fine, it just makes you think something's supposed to happen there, and then we're told they're just waiting.

The scene in the Magistrate's Chamber is interesting and well told.  Good characterizations over all, and again, I'm confused by the woman's role in all this... keeps me wanting to read further to find out! :)

A note: I noticed a lot of grammatical inconsistencies that weren't present in your previous submissions, so I'm assuming that this is still a pretty rough draft and that you'll catch them on another read through.  If you'd like to know what I noticed, though, just let me know and I'll email the list.

Great submission!  I'm becoming more and more intrigued!  (and having less of a problem with the whole "Man of God, but not necessarily Bible issue I had before)
A crown does not a King make, nor the lack of one a commoner.

Renoard

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 06:41:28 AM »
I appreciate the insights.  Especially the issue with the loss of strength and the mental state.  For the record the shift is due to a touch of mania from being imprisoned and tortured, combined with the use of the presence to revivify himself.  I'll have to work on making that clearer.

Also the flipflop between Gily and Brahm is a structural problem I'd just noticed before I sent it, and decided to see if it would be issue enough to get comment. Thanks for letting me know how it reads to fresh eyes.  I think there was a reason for it back in 2005 but that writer is dead and I can't resurrect him. :P

I would like that list of grammatical issues.  Everything I have finished is still first draft material so I can use any help you can offer, since most of what I'm doing currently is around ch. 28.

You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 09:37:48 PM »
Well, you had just finished saying that the City Gard were the worst of the worst, so maybe you were trying to show that there really is no such thing as a "good cop" or "bad cop" because they're all equally bad?  Anyway, if that's the route you want to go, all you really have to do is make Gildad mention something to the effect of "Oh don't give me that!  What about when you _____?" after Brahm tells him he's being too cruel.

And I'll email you that list tonight.  I have to go through it again, first!
A crown does not a King make, nor the lack of one a commoner.

Renoard

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 10:08:24 PM »
Raven pointed out that the file I sent out didn't have the fragrance for the oil.  It is cinnamon and myrrh, so think a musk cologne with sweet cinnamony highlights.
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

ErikHolmes

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2009, 12:52:49 AM »
Nice post Renoard!

I'm getting more and more interested in the story the more I read.

This chapter did have a very rough draft feel to it, but I think we all have weeks like that (I know I do). It seems like I noticed a lot of missing commas while reading the story. But that's it for my grammatical errors input I'm afraid! (We all know I barely get by with my own writing . . .)

Other comments:

It bugged me not having any idea how long he'd been imprisoned for. While I understand that he himself might not have a good idea, a few hints would be nice. He'd know if its been days, weeks, or months, no matter how bad he was treated, and it'd be nice to have a little more description of his physical condition as well. If he's only getting bread and water once a day then I'd like some commentary on the intense hunger he's feeling, etc.

Lack of food could deteriorate him physically, pretty quickly. Starvation attacks muscles first, then fat. Then again, the idea of fasting strengthening the Spirit is a common one, so his captors might really end up in trouble.  :D

The change in POV from the protagonist to the prince was a little confusing, maybe word or sentence to lead into it would help.

And I fully expect to see some pimp slapping in the next chapter or two, you can't go messin' with a man's junk!
Who the hell is interrupting my Kung Fu!

Renoard

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2009, 01:40:32 AM »
Thanks.  Yeah some cues as to time are going to be needed, and the awkwardness of the switch in POV has been a real problem for me. 

See his name is not revealed until two or three pages later. And it would be odd for him to think: Hey my name is X just so you the reader know and so I can make the anonymous prince distinct from myself.  That's the end of my third window address. You can suspend disbelieve again on my mark. mark!

I'd appreciate suggestions.

And yeah I figured that part of the scene would have the males grunting in sympathy.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 01:45:14 AM by Renoard »
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

swaindaddy

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2009, 03:56:39 PM »
I couldn't find anything more than what has been posted about. I will say that this is the least favorite of the submissions so far. By this time in the story (chapter 4) I still feel like we haven't got an idea who our protagonist is, why it matters if he lives or dies and what he needs to do.

I am sure all will be clear with part 2 of chapter 4.

Good story over-all and I look forward to next week.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

Silk

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Re: 18 May 2009 - Renoard - EL SHADDU- ch 4 part 1
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2009, 01:38:51 AM »
"Something about his whole situation was leading toward a bad outcome." I get what you mean with this sentence, but after the character's been imprisoned and tortured, my first reaction to a line like this is "No, really?"

Raven commented on your character going from despairing to ... not despairing rather quickly. I had the same comment from a slightly different angle: at the end of the last chapter he was resolved not to call on the Spirit, and here he appears to have changed his mind; that was what I found abrupt.

I think Erik's and Raven's comments for this submission were spot on, so I'm not going to try and add much more... hopefully I'll be able critique a little more cogently once I've read the rest of the chapter.