Author Topic: 05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5  (Read 1336 times)

Hamster

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05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5
« on: May 12, 2009, 01:31:09 AM »
Hello all, wow, I haven't submitted for so long it feels like my first time again:P. Thanks for taking the time to critique this.
Please focus on dialogue and internal thoughts, I think that I really to work on those aspects of my writing.I hope you enjoy this, I'm still realizing how rough my writing really is, especially in scenes with no action, so please be as harsh as you like,(remembering that it still is a rough draft) I need good advice.

Thanks again for reading.

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: 05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2009, 03:16:13 AM »
Thanks for sending chapter 4, too; it takes the place of a summary very nicely!

Overall, it was an interesting read.  I don't have chapters 1-3 (feel free to send if you like), but I'm already interested in the characters.  From chapter 4, I was getting ready to see the king as a villain, but I can empathize with him too much for that.  He seems misguided (perhaps on purpose), but that's only human.  But I have to wonder... would it really take five years for him to declare war on the nation first mentioned in the flashback in chapter 4?  I mean, in the flashback, it seemed like the soultaker took it for granted that it would happen soon... but perhaps that would have been WITH the help of Kale, which he was then denied.  I also empathize with Kale- you do the tortured (possibly anti-)hero very well!
A crown does not a King make, nor the lack of one a commoner.

Frog

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Re: 05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2009, 08:29:01 PM »
Thoughts While Reading:
What does a 'weeping fire' look like?

Opening scene was very good, but as it is not a full flash back, I'd say Iltalics were unnecessary.

Quote
All of them were yelling and gesturing wildly, desperate for Riel to hear their opinion, and not listen to those other idiots. But the meeting turned out as it usually did: Riel and the two Endurers sat silently while the rest fought amongst themselves pettily, trying to ensure that the best interest of their home state was what happened.

Good concepts but awkwardly phrased. Here's some suggestions:
Quote
All of them were yelling and gesturing wildly, desperate for Riel to listen to them, not those other idiots. But the meeting turned out as it usually did: Riel and the two Endurers sat silently while the rest fought amongst themselves pettily, trying to ensure the best interest of their home state.


I'm also feeling a lot of arrogance from Riel's character that didn't seem to be there before.

The speeches by both houses seem a little long. I'd find ways to break it up, even if its just them interrupting each other.

I'm noticing several punctuation problems... mostly around the dialogue.

The boy's reaction seems off some how. He just strikes me as a bit too calm and coherent based on how he was first described and Riel seems very detached from him.

Overall impression:
Besides the little things I've already mentioned, my biggest problem with this section was the inconsistency in Riel's character based on the other chapters, but I am also seeing all sorts of improvements in your writing here that makes up for it. Wonderful job, Hamster! :D
I've already conquered the world. This is exactly the way I want it.

Renoard

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Re: 05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 12:00:29 PM »
On a positive note, the characters do seem to have distinct personality, with an exception.  And you've taken the time to map out conflict between distinct localities.

That said, I'm having a lot of trouble getting into it.  I've read it several times, and it just seems too dry.  It read a bit like the prose in a biography or history text and just doesn't have the emotional hooks.

The exception is that Riel and Kale seem to be the same person.  Their emotional depth is lacking and they both seem more like a manga characters because of the bluster and emotional narcissism.

Granted this is probably a first draft, and you'll tweak these elements first time through, but those were my general impressions.

In terms of plot elements, I had real trouble tracking which nation or province was which.  referring back to chapter 4 the general was supposed to start a war, but in chapter 5 I couldn't tell whether the war had started or if Riel with a separate force, attempting to start a separate war with the same target country.  Perhaps he is being extorted in the same way Kale was in chapter 4?  I need more dialogue, internal or external to show me who the players are in the conflict and why they are on the side they are.

I am very sorry to say, I wasn't drawn into the plot or any real sympathy with any of the characters.
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

Hamster

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Re: 05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 04:40:07 AM »
First off, thanks for all your comments you guys, they were really helpful!

Now as for the plot elements, I think it would help a little for Ravenstar and Renoard if you had read the previous 3 chapters and the prologue, but again, this is only the 5th chapter, and I don't want to give away parts of the plot.

So far both of you have confusion about the states and the war and timeframe. The flashback was "just five years ago", and Kale talked about his state making peace with "Lemore", and then he was asked to force the war, which it did anyway, which I hinted at in chapter 5, with their wh0le feud, "In the last war, Voras subdued Lemore’s armies...and took half of Lemore’s land, including Isle Lemore, an island off the coast of both states". I was hoping that the reader would make the connection that the war had continued because of the continuous emnity between the two states, so thanks for being confused and pointing that out, I guess I have to make it more obvious.  And Riel is starting a war with the one state that is rebelling against him, though again, it would make more sense if you had read the previous chapters. But thanks for pointing out that stuff!

I'm also feeling a lot of arrogance from Riel's character that didn't seem to be there before.
Well...exactly, it didn't seem to be there before. Glad you noticed.

The boy's reaction seems off some how. He just strikes me as a bit too calm and coherent based on how he was first described and Riel seems very detached from him.
Again, there is something up with that, glad you noticed

Renoard: Is there anything specific I can do to help my characters have more depth, anything you could suggest or anything that seemed flat for their characters? It would be great if you could give me some specific examples and advice, because I really want this story to be character driven, so any help there would be great, thanks alot  :)
Oh, and don't be sorry for not liking it, that's fine, I love to have good constructive criticism. And I'll try to work some more moisture into the dryness of my prose, I still hope to hook you into this yet!

Renoard

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Re: 05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 12:00:11 PM »
I'm not sure my objection is localized to a specific item that you can cite.  It's more a felling that the narrator is not really emotionally engaged with the characters, so he's not leading the reader to be.
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

Silk

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Re: 05-11-09 Hamster, Soul Taker Chapter 5
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 09:44:04 AM »
Ooh, pretty image. "Weeping fire". (I think you can kill the tears of blood that follow, though. Too much figurative language in close proximity can get a bit annoying, and aside from reusing the crying imagery there's no way "tears of blood" can top "weeping fire". :P)

"...and that justice would rain down like fire..." Again, you're just recycling an earlier metaphor here.

"His grey eyes could barely keep themselves open." Passive voice, and it's a bit odd for him to be describing his own eye colour anyway.

The Riel/Katrina flashback: are they supposed to be kids during this flashback? Because if they are, I ain't buying it. They don't talk like children.

Incidentally, and I could be misremembering, but I thought that an earlier chapter had mentioned that Katrina actually wasRiel's sister. Here it says she's a cousin.

"His Lord Commander had no idea of the risks...He had blindly followed his friend and king..." Why doesn't he? People don't usually get appointed to high military positions because of their tendency to blindly follow others around. For that matter, Riel seems like a fairly honest guy; if he has deliberately neglected to inform Tyrell of some of the risks, fine, but you may at some point want to tell us what and why, so it doesn't seem inconsistent.

"Riel lifted himself from the pyre" makes it sound like he was IN the pyre. Especially considering his talk just now of killing himself. I don't really know what he was talking about, incidentally, in terms of sacrificing himself for their souls. Whether he's talking about something specific or just generally angsting, the meaning is a bit lost on me.

JadeEyes says, "The small farming village of Alule was ravaged by a small force while their Soul Taker was distracting us here at the castle!" Um, unless this village is rather close by, you wouldn't exactly need a distraction to go after a small farming village, and it seems to me people would find about it after the fact whether they'd been "distracted" or not.

I'm confused whether or not this boy is actually in the room or not. At first it seems he's some sort of apparition in the flames, but then you say that the boy has entered the room, and have someone walk up to him.

"Yessir, the soldiers, they…they raped and killed my mother, and left me to die in the mud beside her."  That doesn't sound very much like a boy talking, especially one suffering from a very recent and vivid trauma. Also, seems odd to me that these people might be willing to accept the word of this boy--young and recently traumatized--as any sort of proof that Rogont's men in particular were involved (which ambassador Revess's approach seems to imply that they might).

What are people's reactions as Riel walks from the room? Given their opposition I can't think they're pleased... but whatever they think I imagine there will be some hubbub behind Riel as he leaves. What's going on behind him?

This development is a good one, it's starting to give us a hint what the major conflict might be--the war with Rogont. In terms of Riel's character, anyway. I still have no idea  whatsoever what Kale has to do with any of this, and we're far enough along by now that I think we should have some indication of it. We don't need to know everything, but we do need to know that the two stories are connected. Even a few hints would do it--preferably hints that point to things we don't already know from Riel's chapters, but are still clear enough that we can see the shape that the story is starting to take.