Author Topic: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)  (Read 9428 times)

Miyabi

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2009, 05:36:47 AM »
I went and saw it last night.  I think it is an absolutely wonderful movie, aside from the few things that Ryos pointed out.  Silly logic, it ruins everything.

Anyone else notice that Spok's eyebrow is pierced?
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2009, 09:11:49 PM »
I have to disagree with Renoard. The old timeline was the way they stopped making money.

We just got back from the movie and loved it. Yeah, okay, there were a couple things that didn't make sense, but I can easily forgive them because of what else we got.
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FantasyAngel

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2009, 12:07:20 AM »
Well I'm just back from seeing it and I have to say it was brilliant.  I'm not a fan of star trek, in fact I have always hated it but if this is the way star trek continues I will happily change my opinion.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2009, 05:46:30 AM »
OK, there were definitely some things that were silly. Scotty in the water—but those tubes were constructed of transparent aluminum purely for tensile strength, right? Monster on ice planet—that other monster was a better meal, and it chased for too long. Some other things nonsensical—this planet is in the Vulcan system? It should have had some Vulcans on it. The first thing you do when you go out from your planet is colonize your own star system—asteroid belts, moons, space stations, etc. There should be millions.

I can forgive the problems because so much was done so well. Also, becoming a fan of Stargate and a few other series that don't take themselves too seriously has made me more forgiving.
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Miyabi

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2009, 04:01:15 AM »
I absolutely love the Stargate series.  SG-1 was the best, but Atlantis was good too.
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Renoard

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2009, 12:24:15 PM »
I agree with the issues you cite Ookla,  but there is another huge one.  With Vulcans as gypsies with no home planet, the Federation is far less likely to survive. In fact some closer to the Empire of Earth is far more likely. That doesn't even begin to account for the fact that destroying Vulcan creates a huge shift in the balance of power such that Romulus and Kronos are both in good position to wipe Earth from the star map.

Why does any of that matter?  Because it doesn't just mean a slight shift in history to allow more creativity.  It means a completely different story with no possible link to anything that was done previously.  In fact, trying to link into anything remotely resembling next gen, would cause so many problems it would just demand more unrestrained retcon ever few years.  This is the thing that makes comics and "graphic novels" so hard for mainstream audiences to take seriously.  As it spreads and Roddenberry's "Bible" is further ignored, the newly gained fans will walk away in disgust and they'll have already lost the die hard Trekkies.
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2009, 04:05:20 PM »
Haven't seen it yet, but isn't it an alternate time-line? Since it is an alternate time-line, it doesn't have to match up with all of the crap that was put out a decade or more ago. In reality, doing an alternate "history" of Star Trek is a smart move considering that all of the previous series were filled with inconsistencies. You get to ignore all of the garbage movies that were commercial and critical flops and do your own thing. Now you get to see how these characters would react and grow in a new and exciting way in different circumstances. So yeah, the "Bible" doesn't really matter other than giving us a small reference point to say "Oh yeah, this is Star Trek."

Another thing to consider is the future life of the franchise. By making it younger, and by going alternate time-line, you get to start fresh and grab the attention of a new audience that will end up being the franchise's fiscal support over the next several decades. Realistically, the "core" group Star Trek followers isn't that high anymore. The big convention only has 10K people attend. If that core group of people won't make you any money (which it hadn't been doing for years), you need to get a bigger and fresher audience - and then you need to give them something new to chew on.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 05:05:06 PM »
There is a little bit of retconning, but it's mostly an alternate history due to time travel, and that's something that happens in Star Trek all the time. There is no reason to force it to link up to the old Star Trek universe, because it's not the old Star Trek universe.

I think you're overestimating the military importance of Vulcans in the Federation. They were never a huge influence on the balance of power. And if you look at it another way, having Future Spock there can put the Federation decades ahead of where it was supposed to be scientifically, so there goes your power shift.

Look, I was a diehard Trekker. And I died hard because of exactly what Bookstore Guy said. The previous series were filled with inconsistencies. I stopped watching Star Trek regularly when Janeway and Paris went past Warp 10 and mutated into amphibians and had little amphibians. That was absolute garbage and ignored that people went past Warp 10 several times earlier in the series.

Star Trek already lost almost all of its diehard fans. Have you looked in a bookstore recently and seen how the shelf of Star Trek books compares in size to the shelf of Star Wars books and to what the multiple shelves of Star Trek books used to look like 10 years ago? There is next to nothing nowadays. The fandom has significantly dried up. It is time for something new. This movie is giving us what we all want, Star Trek that doesn't suck.
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2009, 05:33:26 PM »
Look, I was a diehard Trekker. And I died hard because of exactly what Bookstore Guy said.

that was quite clever, Ookla, I applaud you. also the fact that you said Trekker confirms your past diehard-ness.

another thing this does is give the series future potential. i was reading an article that talked about Kahn in this alternate universe. how might he be changed? how might the Kahn vs Kirk relationship change? for once, Star Trek will not be limited by the absurdities of the past series and movies.

now the "boldly go where no man has gone before" statement actually MEANS something.
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Renoard

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2009, 05:52:07 PM »
As for that, it meant something when each of those series were created.
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2009, 06:03:31 PM »
But it felt like lip-service to me. Now I am excited by a blank future free of stereotypes.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2009, 06:24:06 PM »
Hey, I loved the original Star Trek and Next Gen, and I think they meant it when they said that line. And remember that they're still part of the history of the new alternate universe, through Spock who came from far in the future.

It's not a blank slate because it's an alternate universe. It's the kind of alternate universe that's a divergent timeline. The starting point still stands the same.

I do hope they can avoid the absurdities though.
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2009, 06:39:11 PM »
exactly. PART of the history. i was a big fan of TNG also - the TV series anyway. i didn't care for DS9 or Voyager (ack) or Enterprise. I think those series lost the wonder we felt with the first series and TNG. as an alternate time-line, they get to conveniently pick and choose their future direction. yay for no Voyage Home. i just love that they have given themselves  a ton of freedom to alter the general public perceptions of the franchise. Personally, I would love to see the galaxy a bit more war-torn. a little grittier if you get my meaning.
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Renoard

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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2009, 07:01:31 PM »
Well I like the idea for that grittier universe, but the only attempts that were ever made at it were Space 1999 (talk about ridiculous pseudo science) and that series, I can't remember the name. That was a take off or starship troupers.  Thing is both bombed.  The average viewer likes the pap-and-pulp approach that Roddenbury and Blish initiated.  Why else would 2.5 Men make me smile so often?

Come to think of it, even Babylon 5 was a warmed over Trek format.  Sort of DS9 meets Blade Runner.  Now there's an idea.  A Blade runner series.  Oh yeah they did one in South Africa and the Sci Fi killed it.  Notice how any show that promotes rugged individualists who sucessfully fight big government and loss of Civil Rights gets canceled?

And you call Dystopia fiction. pshaw!

:D
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Re: review: Star Trek (some thread comments contain spoilers)
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2009, 03:13:55 AM »
Renoard, you need to watch the new Battlestar Galactica (well, "new" isn't super accurate anymore, now that the series ended). It's existence, quality, and popularity are the best answer to every critique you've leveled at SF throughout this thread.

By the way, I just saw the new Trek and I loved it. It was wildly, almost painfully faithful to all the Star Trek stories that have gone before, and yet at the same time threw all of that out and started over. I was really kind of stunned at how good it was, and how well it did what it needed to do. I can't wait to see what they do next.
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