Author Topic: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****  (Read 132908 times)

GreenMonsta

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #615 on: December 17, 2008, 02:50:46 PM »
I'll tell you what mtlhddoc2. I had taken part in a good amount of the build up to the release of HoA. I mean hours and hours of theorizing back when hemalurgy was still foggy. Its funny because I did the same thing. I didn't read the book until about a month ago and I had already missed like 30 pages of this thread. I was going to read back and join the conversation but the volume of conversation is just ridiculous. Maybe someone should take a couple of these ideas that have been talked about here and make comprehensive threads that talk only about them. I would be easier to join conversation on a specific topic than reading all of the questions that people have. I'm not complaining. It is my fault that I didn't read the book right off the bat but man, this thread is jammed with good stuff.
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SarahG

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #616 on: December 17, 2008, 05:22:30 PM »
Maybe someone should take a couple of these ideas that have been talked about here and make comprehensive threads that talk only about them.

Well, they have created a Hoid thread and a Shards of Adonalsium thread and a few others - were there any particular topics you wanted to discuss that don't have threads yet?
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mtlhddoc2

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #617 on: December 18, 2008, 12:26:41 AM »
I was going to read back and join the conversation but the volume of conversation is just ridiculous.

I doubt I will read everything, more than likely, skim through. I just dont want to rehash what has already been discussed :)

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #618 on: December 18, 2008, 12:53:22 AM »
#3. Did Zane and Kelsier have the same hemalurgic spike, if Kelsier did in fact have a spike?
Kelsier did not have a hemalurgic spike. In addition, Sazed suggests that Zael may have spiked himself.
Quote

First off we don't know for sure whether or not Kelsier had a hemalurgic spike, and when I said same hemalurgic spike I meant did the two have the same type of  spike, if Kelsier did indeed have a spike, not were the two using the same spike.  The only reason I think that Kelsier had a hemalurgic spike is the fact that he, like Zane, had amazing control/skill with pushing and puling metals, as was shown in the battle against the inquisitor.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #619 on: December 18, 2008, 05:23:51 AM »
I believe Brandon said Kelsier did not have a spike.
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #620 on: December 18, 2008, 07:52:26 AM »
I'm pretty sure one of the Kandra (Ten Soon or OreSeur) would have mentioned it, since they both wore his bones...

GreenMonsta

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #621 on: December 18, 2008, 06:51:48 PM »
Valid point there Qarlin. I would find it hard to believe that it would be left out of their story lines.
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Spider01

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #622 on: December 18, 2008, 07:31:32 PM »
I finally made it through all the pages in this thread. I HAD questions and I know I had a point that no one has made yet that I have seen, 

But

Right now I can't remember then.

ARGH!!!
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #623 on: December 18, 2008, 08:37:51 PM »
Spider, I know that frustration.  I've taken to actually writing down notes about what I want to post and comments I want to respond to.  I'm getting nerdier by the day.
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Spider01

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #624 on: December 18, 2008, 08:40:54 PM »
Oh Oh

I Remembered what I wanted to ask/Say.


Somewhere in this thread Brandon said/inferred that for a time Kelsier held Preservation’s power after preservation died before it went to Vin.

I don’t remember seeing that in the book.  I know Brandon has done some misdirection in subtlely saying some things so I may have missed it.  Can someone point me to where it was presented to the reader?



Now my big speculation.  Follow me if you can and let me know if it makes any sense.  (Brandon??)

I have a theory about Ruin, Preservation, the body that fell out of the mist when “preservation” died, the prophesies and the WoT (yes I did say WoT) and how they all come together.  There are holes in my theory, but maybe it will make some sense.  And maybe someone can take my theory, fill in some holes and bring it together a little better since I have not read all of Brandon’s works.  I have only read Elantris and the Mistborn books.

I think that “Ruin” and “Preservation” are the names of positions and that this whole 1000 year cycle (0r however many year cycle) of the prophesies are along the lines of the Wheel of Time and the Dragon reborn fighting the Dark One.  Preservation being like the Dragon and Ruin being like the Dark One.

Laras may have been the original “Preservation” but that he may have perished along the way during one of the cycles of the wheel of time in this universe.  Someone like Vin came along and took Laras’s place when he died.  And this would role along the cycle until the next person took over “Preservation”.  Ruin remaining as the same entity as the original Ati (like the Dark One has always been the same “person” while the Dragon keeps being reborn as another person).  At the end of each cycle “Ruin's" prison gets renewed.

The body that fell out of the mist could have been just the latest “Preservation” just like Vin became “Preservation”.  In past cycles the person that took over “Preservation” would have decided to continue the stalemate and then there would be another 1000 year (or 2000 year) cycle.  

But this time Ruin was able to go farther than he ever did in the past and broke the cycle by tricking Vin into releasing him from his prison.  This would be similar to the final battle in WoT.  Ruin destroying the World is like the Dark One breaking out of his prison and recreating the world/universe in his own image.  Vin was the final “preservation” (Dragon) that was able to FINALLY defeat “Ruin” (Dark One) by colliding with him and killing each other.
  
Balance…destruction and creation coming together.  


Vin’s body fell out of the Mists along with Ruin's body.  Both Ruin and Preservation's powers then collected into Sazed.  Sazed later placed Vin's body with Eland's body. edited to denote that Ruin's body did fall out of the Air.

We come to the final battle and Vin “Preservation” won.
 
The combined powers of “Ruin” and “Preservation” being released at the same time were able to be combined in Sazed.  They are “shards” of Adonalsium (broken pieces of a whole) and have been able to come back together.  

In the ultimate scheme of the great question and answer of the universe I think all of the shards that were created when Adonalsium broke apart need to come back together as one body to reform Adonalsium.
Down the line Sazed (Laras-Ati or Ati-Laras) will need to combine with all of the other Shards to re-create Adonalsium.

Maybe, just maybe, the “Big Bang” that created the universe, was caused by (or actually caused) Adonalsium coming apart into the shards.

This is just my 2 cents…….uhm 2 dollars?


Edited to denote that Ruin's body did indeed fall from the air.  I don't know how I blanked on that.  Heck that was Ruin's powers came from to go into Sazed.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 07:12:58 PM by Spider01 »
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #625 on: December 19, 2008, 12:43:37 AM »
I finally made it through all the pages in this thread. I HAD questions and I know I had a point that no one has made yet that I have seen, 

But

Right now I can't remember then.

ARGH!!!

Ruin is tinkering with his metalminds! 

(Ignore his second post...those random questions were implanted by Ruin as a clever ruse)
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Spider01

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #626 on: December 19, 2008, 04:03:08 AM »
I have no piercings.
Now my mental stability may be in question though......
Spider

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #627 on: December 19, 2008, 02:51:08 PM »
Oh Oh

I Remembered what I wanted to ask/Say.


Somewhere in this thread Brandon said/inferred that for a time Kelsier held Preservation’s power after preservation died before it went to Vin.

I don’t remember seeing that in the book.  I know Brandon has done some misdirection in subtlely saying some things so I may have missed it.  Can someone point me to where it was presented to the reader?



Now my big speculation.  Follow me if you can and let me know if it makes any sense.  (Brandon??)

I have a theory about Ruin, Preservation, the body that fell out of the mist when “preservation” died, the prophesies and the WoT (yes I did say WoT) and how they all come together.  There are holes in my theory, but maybe it will make some sense.  And maybe someone can take my theory, fill in some holes and bring it together a little better since I have not read all of Brandon’s works.  I have only read Elantris and the Mistborn books.

I think that “Ruin” and “Preservation” are the names of positions and that this whole 1000 year cycle (0r however many year cycle) of the prophesies are along the lines of the Wheel of Time and the Dragon reborn fighting the Dark One.  Preservation being like the Dragon and Ruin being like the Dark One.

Laras may have been the original “Preservation” but that he (I'm chosing "He")  may have perished along the way during one of the cycles of the wheel of time in this universe.  Someone like Vin came along and took Laras’s place when he died.  And this would role along the cycle until the next person took over “Preservation”.  Ruin remaining as the same entity as the original Ati (like the Dark One has always been the same “person” while the Dragon keeps being reborn as another person).  At the end of each cycle “Ruin's" prison gets renewed.

The body that fell out of the mist could have been just the latest “Preservation” just like Vin became “Preservation”.  In past cycles the person that took over “Preservation” would have decided to continue the stalemate and then there would be another 1000 year (or 2000 year) cycle.  

But this time Ruin was able to go farther than he (Still chosing "HE") ever did in the past and broke the cycle by tricking Vin into releasing him from his prison.  This would be similar to the final battle in WoT.  Ruin destroying the World is like the Dark One breaking out of his prison and recreating the world/universe in his own image.  Vin was the final “preservation” (Dragon) that was able to FINALLY defeat “Ruin” (Dark One) by colliding with him and killing each other.
  
Balance…destruction and creation coming together.  


Vin’s body would have fallen out of the Mists somewher and Sazed was able to collect her body and place it with Eland.  Somewhere Ruin's body could have fallen out of the Mists too if his Body, in the form of the Atium, would not have been used up by the Atium Mistings.  Since he didn’t have a body, one didn’t fall out of the Mists.

We come to the final battle and Vin “Preservation” won.
 
The combined powers of “Ruin” and “Preservation” being released at the same time were able to be combined in Sazed.  They are “shards” of Adonalsium (broken pieces of a whole) and have been able to come back together.  

In the ultimate scheme of the great question and answer of the universe I think all of the shards that were created when Adonalsium broke apart need to come back together as one body to reform Adonalsium.
Down the line Sazed (Laras-Ati or Ati-Laras) will need to combine with all of the other Shards to re-create Adonalsium.

Maybe, just maybe, the “Big Bang” that created the universe, was caused by (or actually caused) Adonalsium coming apart into the shards.

This is just my 2 cents…….uhm 2 dollars?

Firstly, I do think there is a cycle of sorts, but to say its a WoT type thing, every 1000 years, I highly doubt that.  I do agree that Ati and Leras were once people like Vin.  That they each somehow tapped into the power of the Shards of Preservation and Ruin, and became part of that power.

One of my main problems with the whole WoT thing is that, besides that fact from seeing Brandon's interviews, that he would not do something as to reuse the idea of the Wheel, being that this Trilogy was supposed to be the opposite of many big epic fantasy stories.  So far Brandon's always tried to do something not seen before.

Besides that point, there is the problem of the prophecies themselves.  If what the trilogy depicts happens over and over, we would assume someone like Sazed would gather both powers each time.  However, how would he lose it, if he has both.  The only thing that can oppose either power, is the other power.  If they are acting as one, they cannot go against each other.   As in one person controlling them, not working together as they did when Ruin decided he wanted more.

And actually Ruin did have a body that fell out of the sky along with Vin.  It was only mentioned once.  I believe it mentioned something about a prominent nose.  And I believe it was a male figure, so in this instance, yes Ruin would be a 'He'.

Also, Vin as Preservation did not "win".  It was a draw.  They both were equal in power, so they both died, that being how Sazed could get both.  If you want to say Vin won because Ruin did not, well then yes.  To me, if Vin had won, she would have still been alive, instead of plummeting from the sky.

I do like your idea of the Shards eventually coming together.  My only problem with that is that it would leave all the respective books words (magic) powerless, and so far all his books magic systems revolve around these systems.  So, if this is to ever happen, it will not be for a long time.

Spider01

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #628 on: December 19, 2008, 04:44:45 PM »
Wielder,
Like I said I know there are plenty of holes in my theory.
Thank you for responding.

Firstly, I do think there is a cycle of sorts, but to say its a WoT type thing, every 1000 years, I highly doubt that.  I do agree that Ati and Leras were once people like Vin.  That they each somehow tapped into the power of the Shards of Preservation and Ruin, and became part of that power.

One of my main problems with the whole WoT thing is that, besides that fact from seeing Brandon's interviews, that he would not do something as to reuse the idea of the Wheel, being that this Trilogy was supposed to be the opposite of many big epic fantasy stories.  So far Brandon's always tried to do something not seen before.

Yes a Cycle of sorts true. 
I do agree with you that Brandon is doing work that others have not, so I don't believe he would have reused the idea from RJ.   
Cycles have been theorized long before RJ used it in The Wheel of Time.

Besides that point, there is the problem of the prophecies themselves.  If what the trilogy depicts happens over and over, we would assume someone like Sazed would gather both powers each time.  However, how would he lose it, if he has both.  The only thing that can oppose either power, is the other power.  If they are acting as one, they cannot go against each other.   As in one person controlling them, not working together as they did when Ruin decided he wanted more.

I Think that if there were any cycles that Sazed broke those cycles when he collected both powers into himself. 

And actually Ruin did have a body that fell out of the sky along with Vin.  It was only mentioned once.  I believe it mentioned something about a prominent nose.  And I believe it was a male figure, so in this instance, yes Ruin would be a 'He'.

If I remember correctly the body your are describing was the body of Preservation when it finally died after assisting Eland when he went off on his own while Vin was captured.....I don't have the book with me right now so I cannot look it up.

Also, Vin as Preservation did not "win".  It was a draw.  They both were equal in power, so they both died, that being how Sazed could get both.  If you want to say Vin won because Ruin did not, well then yes.  To me, if Vin had won, she would have still been alive, instead of plummeting from the sky.

The way I am thinking of Vin winning is that she did not let stand the stalemate of equal powers of Preservation and Ruin.  She chose to attack him and destroyed him and herself.  She sacraficed herself for the greater good of humanity. 

I do like your idea of the Shards eventually coming together.  My only problem with that is that it would leave all the respective books words (magic) powerless, and so far all his books magic systems revolve around these systems.  So, if this is to ever happen, it will not be for a long time.
Oh yes, if that would be the case of the various world's shards needing to come together and then those combined shards (Sazed) needing to come together to reform Adonalsium it would indeed be a long time down the road.

If this was even remotely the case I would image Brandon needing to write various trilogies for each of the, oh lets say, 8 worlds (2 shards per world to get to the magical 16 that runs throughout the space time continuim) for the pairs of shards to combine.
 
Then there would need to be another set of trilogies (at the minimum) to deal with the combined 8 "Sazed" shards to battle and combine with the end chapter being Adonalsium waking after the reforming of his body.

And while I'm thinking BIG here.......

Adonalsium is just 1 of 16 beings that ARE 16 different "universes" living on another plane of existance.......

and then books about them.....

and...and....and.....


:D
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 04:56:17 PM by Spider01 »
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #629 on: December 19, 2008, 05:16:06 PM »

And actually Ruin did have a body that fell out of the sky along with Vin.  It was only mentioned once.  I believe it mentioned something about a prominent nose.  And I believe it was a male figure, so in this instance, yes Ruin would be a 'He'.

If I remember correctly the body your are describing was the body of Preservation when it finally died after assisting Eland when he went off on his own while Vin was captured.....I don't have the book with me right now so I cannot look it up.


Actually, I do remember that is not true.  Bodies fell from the sky twice, (well technically three times).  When Elend spoke to the Mist Spirit, it was mentioned in an Epitaph by Sazed (I believe) that Leras used the last power is had as the Mist Spirit to talk to him.  And that if he had stayed around longer he would have seen a body fall from the sky.  That was Leras.

Later, after the battle between Vin and Ati, in 'god' forms, two bodies fell.  One Vin's, the other Ati's.  This is what Sazed found, and absorbed the powers from.  I do not have the book on me to site pages but I am sure this is what happened.