Author Topic: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****  (Read 125858 times)

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Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #165 on: October 20, 2008, 07:37:57 AM »
Will elements of your untitled Aether project be worked into the Dragonsteel series?

Quote
The Silence Divine (Working title.  Stand alone Epic Fantasy. Unwritten.)
Steelheart (YA Science Fiction. Unwritten)
I Hate Dragons (Middle Grade fantasy.  Maybe an Alcatraz follow up.  Unwritten.)
Zek Harbringer, Destroyer of Worlds (Middle Grade Sf.  Maybe an Alcatraz follow up.  Unwritten.)
These titles are news to me. You described two potential YA or middle-grade books to me and Karen when you came out to Book Expo, plus Dark One, but now I can't remember the plots except they were cool (and that one of them involved superheroes). Are they among this list? Also, is that really Harbringer or is it supposed to be Harbinger?

Bah!  That's what I get for typing so quickly.  Yes, Harbinger.  It should be "Zeek" too.  Short for Ezekiel. 

Steelheart would be the superhero one, though that's a working title, since I'm not sure if it's trademarked or not.  Haven't had much time for thinking about any of these books lately.
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Readers have met four shards other than Ruin and Preservation.
Have we met these four by name, or just by influence? I can't think of a name that would go with the one that the Elantris lake is a manifestation of.

Hoid could be one? I know nothing his purpose other than that he shows up in lots of different books, sometimes begging and sometimes telling stories. Since most of these series happen on different planets (though two of them may happen on the same planet as each other), I'm assuming he has mad planet-hopping skills.

...Nightblood...



Thank you for giving those extra Hoid references, Ookla. I didn't remember those Elantris or MB1 references, though I distinctly remember him in Warbreaker because he was on there for a bit more than a page :P Hoid definitely made it in the 6.1 Warbreaker PDF (in case you haven't read anything past 4.2. 6.1 was my first Warbreaker read-through).

I thought Nightblood was explained sufficiently for my tastes in Warbreaker, so I doubt that it is a Shard, but I've been plenty wrong before. Also, I don't know if Hoid could even be a Shard. Certainly he has mean planet-hopping skills, but I don't know what purpose a celestial storyteller would have in this universe. He doesn't really have the same kind of power as Ruin or Preservation did, so normally I would rule him out right off the bat. But it is possible that these Shards come in many shapes, not just in the near-deific quantity Ruin or Preservation had. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Hoid is a Shard... but, then again, I don't have any ideas for what those four other Shards are.

Maybe Hoid is just a traveler trying to find remnants of Adonalsium and stories about them. He doesn't need to be a shard, I suppose.

This is slightly a tangent, but here is a relevant chunk from the Warbreaker Annotations.  As this won't be posted for months, I'll put it here as a sneak preview. 

Chapter Thirty-Two
"This whole scene came about because I wanted an interesting way to delve into the history.  Siri needed to hear it, and I felt that many readers would want to know it.  However, that threatened to put me into the realm of the dreaded info dump.

And so I brought in the big guns.  This cameo is so obvious (or, at least, someday it will be) that I almost didn’t use the name Hoid for the character, as I felt it would be too obvious.  The first draft had him using one of his other favorite pseudonyms.  However, in the end, I decided that too many people would be confused (or, at least, even more confused) if I didn’t use the same name.  So here it is.  And if you have no idea what I’m talking about. . .well, let’s just say that there’s a lot more to this random appearance than you might think."
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Wow, I only noticed Hoid in Final Empire and Hero of Ages, but I can see him being in Elantris as well.  My thoughts is it's just a sort of joke, like in Pheobe Gilman's childrens books she always includes items or characters from other books in her illustrations.

This Shards thing is so cool, I'd totally love to see Raoden and Kelsier fight, even though that's impossible.  In Elantris I'd say there are two shards, the lake and the dor.  The Dor is the power life, and the lake is the power of rest.  Similar but not the same as ruin and Preservation.  The way the Dor can be harnessed in a variety of ways makes me even more certain that it is a shard. 
I think Kelsier would beat Raoden though.  Raoden could do pretty much anything, like automatically kill Kelsier with an aon, but they are too slow, Kell would have him down before he finished drawing.

I think most of my Questions have been answered, thanks Brandon!
1) One Question is this.  If Gold is used to make Malatium, couldn't malatium also be gold's compliment?
2)I also wondered if you could explain that circle in the cave some more, I didn't quite get it.
I was sure Vin was the hero right up until the end, even though originally before I read the book, I was sure it would be Elend or Sazed.  But then the epilogue author started naming people off, so I knew it wasn't them.  But it only mentions Vin as 'she,' when talking about how she got her spike.  I was sure one of the epigraphs was going to be: "And that girl is me."
The Sazed thing totally made sense in hindsight, I can't believe I didn't figure it out.  And we were right about the "on the arms," bit being the part Brandon was referring to, good find Vintage!
I'm a little sad that the lake doesn't come into it more.  But the Mist spirit and the Deepness were BOTH Preservation.  That was cool.
3) So here's my last question.  If there ARE people on the other side of the world, did Vin kill them all by placing the sun on their side, or do they have they're own Ruin/Preservation battle going on over there as well?  Do they also have allomancy feruchemy and hemalurgy?

So those three numbered points are my questions, great great book, it was simply amazing!


1.  The Allomantic table poster will have more info on this.
2.  I think I did a post on the circle.  The short of it is, that is drawing too much attention.  Just because Vin didn't quite understand it doesn't mean it's important.  (Though, of course, there are other things she doesn't understand that ARE important.)  Also, the lake might be involved more at a later date.  See the other posts.
3.  No, they're not dead.  Yes, Rashek was aware of them.  In fact, he placed them there as a reserve.  I knew he wanted a 'control' group of people in case his changes to genetics ended with the race being in serious trouble.  All I'll say is that he found a way other than changing them genetically to help them survive in the world he created.  And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them--though without anyone among them having burned Larasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of. 
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I have a question (I knew there was one when I was done.  I just couldn't remember it.)  Is Sazed effected by the metal blindess, or can he see thing written in metal?

He is blinded by metal.
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I'd first like to say that this series was fantastic.  I was exceptionally pleased with how you tied everything together in this final book of the trilogy. 

1.  This series has the best world-building, magic system, and over-arching plot of any epic fantasy I have ever read.  I think George R.R. Martin is still the master of creating memorable characters, developing them, and having them interact with each other.  Other authors, like Hobb and Rothfuss, are better at evincing emotion.  You are an amazing writer yourself.

That being said, I have a couple suggestions for you.

2.  The first contradicts itself, so take it for what it is.  I would suggest that you write how you feel the story should be written.  Getting inspiration from someone is one thing, but changing your work because some people want a happy ending or dark ending takes away from the purity of writing.  The part you added in at the end where Sazed let Spook know Vin and Elend were happy in the afterlife really stuck me like a thorn.  I think it was apparent how happy they were together in life and how necessary their sacrifices were.  That would have been enough for me.

3. My other suggestion is more of a plea really.  Please don't extend this series just to capitalize on it.  If you really feel there is more story to be told, then tell it.  I, for one, thought the ending would have been perfect if allomancy, hemalurgy, and feruchemy would have faded from existence as their corresponding gods did.  It would have been rather romantic to have people start over with a new "normal" world.

Congratulations again on completing a masterful work!

1.  You humble me.  I don't think I've NEARLY the skill for characters that Mr. Martin does, and that's not just an attempt at modesty.  I hope to be there some day, however.

2.  This is a tricky one.  I didn't change the worldbuilding or the cosmology of the story in order to fit what people wanted, but I feel strongly about using writing groups and test readers to see if my intention in a book has been achieved.  I show things to alpha readers to see what is confusing or bothersome to them, then decide if that's really something I want to be confusing or bothersome. 

In my mind, the presence of a powerful being such as Sazed, mixed with some direct reaching from beyond the grave by a certain crew leader, indicated that there WAS an afterlife.  However, test readers didn't get it, so I tweaked the story to make it more obvious.  Perhaps I should have left it as is, but I liked both ways, and decided upon the one I liked the most in the context of reader responses. 

I do plan to always tell the stories from my heart, and not change them because of how I think the reactions will be.  But I do think it's important to know what those reactions are ahead of time and decide if they are what I want or not. 

3.  We are on the same page on this one.  You can read other posts on the thread to see what kind of thoughts I might have for more Mistborn books, but I don't know if/when I will write them.  It depends on the story and how excited I am to tell it. 
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Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #170 on: October 20, 2008, 07:59:41 AM »
Brandon, here you said Alcatraz 4 is called Alcatraz vs. The Dark Talent; is that still the working title? Also, you mentioned Dragonsteel: The Lightweaver of Rens, but now you say The Liar of Partinel is a standalone. Change of plans? (I know you can't get back to Dragonsteel for a while.)
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And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them--though without anyone among them having burned Larasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of. 

Okay, in a previous post you just said:

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

Ati and Leras. Well, the metal Lerasium creates Mistborn, so if that is the Preservation-metal, thus, Preservation's true name is Leras.

I pondered this for a few minutes and then it occurred to me: of course Ati is Ruin. His metal, after all, is atium. Ati for atium, Leras for Larasium.

Ruin, thus, is Ati, and Preservation is Leras. We have their names now.
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Oh SNAP, I'm an Allomancer.

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So I have a couple of questions....

I loved the book, it was all great UNTIL Vin and especially ELEND died. I can see why you did it, but I was crying so hard when Vin confirmed Elend was dead. I actually had an urge to burn the books right then and there and pretend it had never happened. Either way, I continued reading and then found some sliver of hope when Sazed said he hadn't figured out how to restore the souls YET, he said he would get better at it.

1)Does that mean that he might someday, maybe, hopefully (pretty please) bring them back to life? I suspect that you might not answer, but can I atleast hope? Cause if anyone deserved to live a full NORMAL life it was Vin and Elend. Besides, it would ROCK if Elend and Kelsier ever got to meet each other......

Awe man.....i'm still crying over Elend....Is it wrong I get so attatched to characters? Its just that Elend and Vin got so little time together. It's so sad. Which reminds me: You mentioned, when someone asked about sazed meeting twindyl again, that he hadn't because he hadn't reached that space where souls were and the ones that were trapped in the in between were the ones that had a connection with either the physical or the concious world. Those weren't the exact words but it was something like that that IMPLIED that Vin, Elend and Kel were somehow still connected with the earth because unlike twindyl the hadn't progressed past that in between place.

2) Am I right and maybe going somewhere, or am I talking total nonsense and simply trying to cope with the loss of Elend?

 One of the reasons for that line at the end is to give you, the reader, the power and authority to bring to the characters the ending you wish.  I may do more in this series, but until then, please take the future of the characters wherever you want in your own mind.  (Also, you mention that they had such little time together--which is true, but also remember that there was a year between books one and two, then another year between books two and three.  They spent most of this time together.)

The door is open for a return of Elend and Vin.  Will I write it?  It isn't likely to be soon, if I ever even do.  Does that mean it won't happen?  No.  Not at all.  If I write more Mistborn books, they will be hundreds of years in the future.  During that time, Sazed could have learned to get souls into bodies, given Vin and Elend a life together somewhere away from the others, where they wouldn't have to struggle quite so much like they did through their lives, then ushered their souls on to the beyond.  Or they could hang around with him, working with him as he takes his next steps to shepherd humankind on Scadrial.  Or neither of the above.  Imagine it how you wish, for I'm not going to set this one in stone for quite some time, if ever.  
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Awesome Book. Seriously, probably the best I've ever read.

And to think I was worried about what we'd theorize over! Now, for my "I told you so" moment:

I totally called the "future of the world on his arms" thing. Yes, Chaos, you may bow. That was my topic. Ha!

That said, that's really the only thing that I was dead on. There were others that I was close, but the rest, I was WAY off.

So, a quick question: Why can Vin fuel Elend's atium-burning, even though Atium is Ruin's Body and Vin is using Preservation? Or did I misread that and he was just burning atium and had run out of everything else?

Yes, as has been pointed out:

   "A powerful peace swelled in Elend.  His Allomancy flared bright, though he knew the metals inside of him should have burned away.  Only atium remained, and the strange power did not--could not--give him this metal.  But it didn’t matter.  For a moment, he was embraced by something greater.  He looked up, toward the sun."  (From the text.)

As a note here, the powers granted by all of the metals--even the two divine ones--are not themselves of either Shard.  They are simply tools.  And so, it's possible that one COULD have found a way to reproduce an ability like atium's while using Preservation's power, but it wouldn't be as natural or as easy as using Preservation to fuel Allomancy.

The means of getting powers--Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting--are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves.  
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No, Elend was burning atium and had run out of everything else. At least, that was how I read it. It wouldn't help to get rid of the atium if Elend wasn't burning it, I think.

So, Brandon, it's Sunday now. Did Hero of Ages sell enough to become a bestseller?

*crosses fingers*

We'll know on Wednesday, but the distribution problems have us worried.  A lot of stores didn't get the books on the shelves until Friday or Saturday, which only gave one or two days in that market to get on the list.  We'll see.  It's going to be close.  It will depend on how many stores got the books on time, how well other authors did, and whether or not I sold copies at the RIGHT stores.  (The ones which report to the NYT list.)

I will post on Wednesday when I know, though it might not be until late in the day, as I've got a lot going on during tour on Wednesday.
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And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them--though without anyone among them having burned Larasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of. 

Now the real question is, what does the alloy of Larasium do, and what is it called? (Takes away Allomancy maybe?)

And I'm really suspecting something atium is "the adopted child" of the metal circle. It doesn't quite belong.

Okay, in a previous post you just said:

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

Ati and Leras. Well, the metal Lerasium creates Mistborn, so if that is the Preservation-metal, thus, Preservation's true name is Leras.

I pondered this for a few minutes and then it occurred to me: of course Ati is Ruin. His metal, after all, is atium. Ati for atium, Leras for Larasium.

Ruin, thus, is Ati, and Preservation is Leras. We have their names now.

Grr. As I was saying before my post got eaten . . . .

This makes me wonder what the alloy of Lerasium is called and what it does. . . .

And I'm more and more sure that atium and malatium aren't really supposed to be on that metal circle. . .
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 08:24:14 AM by Czanos »
I came because I heard stories, tales of a lengendary man.
A man who was known as the Lord of the Mists, a man they named Survivor.
A man called Hope.

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I'm a big fan of Brandon's work. This book is one of his best so far, and it really affected me.  Some parts had me in tears, others had me pacing around at midnight.

Might as well try my questions:

1: It seemed that Kelsier was fluent in Spook's street dialect, and even conversed with Spook in the dialect at one point. So I'm assuming  Kelsier knew what Lestibournes really meant, and being who Kelsier was, giving him a new name probably was more about building the boy up, rather than just the length. That said, why Spook? If he was trying to boost Spook's self confidence, why use a name like that?

2: Given that Kelsier seems be keeping an eye out for everything from the beyond, how does Kelsier feel about how every turned out? Has his opinion on Elend changed? How did he react upon learning Lord Ruler's true nature? I'm guessing this may be a RAFO situation, but I might as well ask.

3: A question about Goradel. His end was very tragic, and was one of the things that had me in tears. The thing that really twisted the knife into me, is that he died that horrible death thinking that he had failed. When everything he tried to survive failed, his final act was to try to prevent the message into falling into Ruin's hands, but even that was futile. With those who seem to be active in the great beyond, did Goradel ever find out about what his actions helped to bring about? Was he ever thanked for his actions?

1.  It's an inside joke between them.  "Spook" means "Sneaky" or "Clever" in the street slang.  It was a compliment.  

2.  Yes, let's RAFO for the most part.  (Let's just say that he is overall pleased.)

3.  Well...  I don't want to speak too much about the great beyond in the books, as in my opinion that level of cosmology is influenced by your own beliefs in the hereafter and in deity.  Beyond that, I would rather not speak of what happens to the souls beyond the three Realms, as even Sazed doesn't know that.  

Perhaps this will help, however.  Like most of the leaders of soldiers in this series (Demoux, Wells, and Conrad included,) Goradel is based on and looks like one of my friends.  In this case, it's Richard Gordon.  He's read the book and cheered for his namesake's sacrifice and eventual victory.  So the REAL Goradel knows.  ;)
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......wooooooooooooooah......

I still can't stop thinking that in my head. It's all that's really coming to mind at the moment.

I made the stupid mistake of finishing the book this afternoon in a public place. Therefore I looked like a complete moron as I burst into tears when Elend died. I think it was a good ending. I'm still not totally decided on that. I'm just in shock.

It's just so amazing how the books progressed, developing into this huge cosmic epic that I never expected from just reading The Final Empire a year ago. I guess in some sense what I'm feeling is a slight sense of... awe, maybe? I want to know how he comes up with stuff. I mean seriously, talk about not just writing another fantasy series.

But I'm also shocked that no one else seemed to have figured out that Sazed was the Hero of Ages. I thought it might be him when I started the book, but it could as easily have been Vin or Elend. But at about a third of the way through, page 215 to be exact, there was this line from Sazed thinking in his head:

"I am, unforunately, in charge."

Sound familiar?

"I am, unfortunately, the Hero of Ages."

No one else would have used the same wording as Sazed did when he was thinking to himself. I have to assume that was intentional on Brandon's part. It was very subtle... I'm actually surprised I noticed.

I'm gratified that you noticed.  The Terris dialect IS very subtle.  That speech pattern is one hint, the other is the use of "I think" to soften phrases at the ending.  Beyond that, Sazed speaks with compound, complex sentences using frequent hedging to indicate that he's often uncertain.  (That's another Terris speech pattern, not wanting to offend with language.)

The epigraphs in this book particularly (though I did it for Kwaan too) are intended to "sound" Terris, and like Sazed in particular.  I didn't think anyone would catch it.  You made my day!
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I'm one of those readers tha gets swept in the stories and fails to come up with any theories whatsover.

However I did notice one...  2 years ago.

Hoid
I can't believe this is being talked about. I remember making a thread about it shortly after I joined the forums (I can't even find it anymore) About how I thought it was odd to see Hoid in Mistborn as an informant, Elantris as a beggar, Warbreaker as a storyteller, and I had a strong feeling it was in the first chapter as Liar as well but was too lazy to investigate.
It was before these forums got so crazy crowded and I'm pretty sure my questions on whether the use of the name was intetional were brushed off. Weird right? Ever since then I considered my speculations unimportant (much like my speculation's on Reen's obsidian, the nobility really being terris, and Vin being a feruchemist, by the way, don't ask about the second two, I'm crazy)

Anyway, just wanted to add this. I sure wish I could find my original Hoid post but I'm pretty sure it was so old, it's been deleted.
I remember when you pointed Hoid out, notxaxlie.  I was curious to see if others would start talking about it then, but it just kind of faded.  You were certainly one of the first to spot that point.
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First of all. WOW!!!!!! I cannot express how much I enjoyed this series! I was extremely happy to finally meet you at the Provo signing, so now 2 of my top 3 authors are down (unfortunately I can't meet RJ, :( ) Anyhow here is my question

Will Vin and Elend fade like mistborn? or will they live on as the "father and mother" of the new world?

Thanks Jakobus! 

I just answered this one, kind of, just above.  I'm afraid it's rather vague.  But they won't 'fade' away.
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