Author Topic: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****  (Read 125519 times)

Xandeis

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Oops... thanks Nessa!!!

Brenna

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From Comatose (moved from a non-spoiler thread to this one):

Reaves....
You were right!
And it was Presrevation in the tent.
It's weird to think that our first theory was that Preservation was the mist spirit, but then we were distracted, and our original hunch proved to be correct.

Also from Comatose (Also moved from another thread):

I was sort of right about hemalurgy (YES!)  I got the examples wrong, but I did get the power and normal attribute stealing bit right, so that's awesome!  I told you guys the feruchemist/misting thing was correct when it first came up!
that's my I told you so.
I was wrong about the last two metals, but I did say metals absorb a God's power, which is kind of like the whole body of the gods thing.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 01:16:11 AM by Brenna »

Xandeis

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Not the expert here, but I don't think Sazed would be effected by metal blindness. If I'm right the reason Ruin and Preservation couldn't "see" metal was because they were forces of power, and metal is a source for power. If you think of it this way: Ruin and Pres reside in Sazed, kinda like a brain...two halves making one whole. But Sazed has his own consciousness, so he more or less draws on the powers of ruin and pres, but they don't consume him or overwhelm him...
Guys n Gals...if I got that wrong please pick it apart.....

Brenna

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Spoiler post moved from a different thread:

Time and Again says:

I'm bringing this up, and I don't want to spoil anybody but I was reading the latest update to MB3 and I saw this. WARNING: SPOILERS!

"Vin burned Electrum. This created a cloud of images around her, shadows of possible things she could do in the future. Electrum, the Allomantic complement of gold. Elend had started calling it "poor man's atium." It wouldn't affect the battle much, other than to make her immune to atium, should the Inquisitor have any."

This is exactly what I was talking about, and I am absolutly giddy with joy that I called it. I know, I know, I'm hurting myself from pating my back so hard. I beleive I even said Poor Mans Atium. Hm.. how sweet it is. Now, back to my reading.

Death Magnetic

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I'd first like to say that this series was fantastic.  I was exceptionally pleased with how you tied everything together in this final book of the trilogy. 

This series has the best world-building, magic system, and over-arching plot of any epic fantasy I have ever read.  I think George R.R. Martin is still the master of creating memorable characters, developing them, and having them interact with each other.  Other authors, like Hobb and Rothfuss, are better at evincing emotion.  You are an amazing writer yourself.

That being said, I have a couple suggestions for you.

The first contradicts itself, so take it for what it is.  I would suggest that you write how you feel the story should be written.  Getting inspiration from someone is one thing, but changing your work because some people want a happy ending or dark ending takes away from the purity of writing.  The part you added in at the end where Sazed let Spook know Vin and Elend were happy in the afterlife really stuck me like a thorn.  I think it was apparent how happy they were together in life and how necessary their sacrifices were.  That would have been enough for me.

My other suggestion is more of a plea really.  Please don't extend this series just to capitalize on it.  If you really feel there is more story to be told, then tell it.  I, for one, thought the ending would have been perfect if allomancy, hemalurgy, and feruchemy would have faded from existence as their corresponding gods did.  It would have been rather romantic to have people start over with a new "normal" world.

Congratulations again on completing a masterful work!

lexluthorxiv

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So I have a couple of questions....

I loved the book, it was all great UNTIL Vin and especially ELEND died. I can see why you did it, but I was crying so hard when Vin confirmed Elend was dead. I actually had an urge to burn the books right then and there and pretend it had never happened. Either way, I continued reading and then found some sliver of hope when Sazed said he hadn't figured out how to restore the souls YET, he said he would get better at it.

1)Does that mean that he might someday, maybe, hopefully (pretty please) bring them back to life? I suspect that you might not answer, but can I atleast hope? Cause if anyone deserved to live a full NORMAL life it was Vin and Elend. Besides, it would ROCK if Elend and Kelsier ever got to meet each other......

Awe man.....i'm still crying over Elend....Is it wrong I get so attatched to characters? Its just that Elend and Vin got so little time together. It's so sad. Which reminds me: You mentioned, when someone asked about sazed meeting twindyl again, that he hadn't because he hadn't reached that space where souls were and the ones that were trapped in the in between were the ones that had a connection with either the physical or the concious world. Those weren't the exact words but it was something like that that IMPLIED that Vin, Elend and Kel were somehow still connected with the earth because unlike twindyl the hadn't progressed past that in between place.

2) Am I right and maybe going somewhere, or am I talking total nonsense and simply trying to cope with the loss of Elend?

Andrew the Great

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Awesome Book. Seriously, probably the best I've ever read.

And to think I was worried about what we'd theorize over! Now, for my "I told you so" moment:

I totally called the "future of the world on his arms" thing. Yes, Chaos, you may bow. That was my topic. Ha!

That said, that's really the only thing that I was dead on. There were others that I was close, but the rest, I was WAY off.

So, a quick question: Why can Vin fuel Elend's atium-burning, even though Atium is Ruin's Body and Vin is using Preservation? Or did I misread that and he was just burning atium and had run out of everything else?
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Chaos

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No, Elend was burning atium and had run out of everything else. At least, that was how I read it. It wouldn't help to get rid of the atium if Elend wasn't burning it, I think.

So, Brandon, it's Sunday now. Did Hero of Ages sell enough to become a bestseller?

*crosses fingers*
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Brandon, I believe in one of Sazed's epigraphs, he actually called it "Adonasium" rather than what you are referring to here, which is "Adonalsium". I'm thinking that's just a typo, right?

I don't suppose you could tell us which book series of yours will tell us more about Adonalsium, would you? You know, just so us theorizers on the forum know when to properly theorize about these things...

And people were asking what we'd have to do in this forum when there weren't any other wild theories to discuss. Now you tell us we've barely scratched the surface.

I knew you had Hoid popping up everywhere, but only realized that after reading Warbreaker and the first few Liar of Partinel chapters. I had no idea you had so many other connections between these series. Now I'm guessing that ALL your adult fantasy novels exist in the same universe (though...I'm not sure about Way of Kings...I need to check it later...). (I'm guessing Alcatraz and Scribbler are not connected.)

You can count on me to make an overly complex theory of everything that has little basis in reality. I'm good at that.

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?
Well, I guess this means that the proofreaders did not add the "L" when I marked the error on the manuscript. (sigh). Yes, the correct spelling is adonalsium. I will try to get this fixed for the paperback, but I've been trying to get that blasted steel/iron error in the back of book one fixed for two years now. . .

If it helps, Sazed would probably under-pronounce the "L" as that letter, like in Tindwyl's name, is said very softly in terris.

As for your other question, you will have to wait and see. Now, you could search my old books for clues, but I would caution against this. While there are hints in these, they are not yet cannon. Just as I changed how things were presented in the mistborn books during editing, I would have fixed a lot in these books during revision. Beyond that, reading them would give big spoilers for books yet to be released. White sand, dragonsteel, and way of kings in particular are going to be published some day for almost certain. (though in very different forms). Aether of night should be safe, as should final empire prime and mistborn prime, though of those three, only aether is worth reading, and then only barely. (it is still pretty bad).

I will post more later. They are calling my flight. (I'm at LAX)
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I'm a big fan of Brandon's work. This book is one of his best so far, and it really affected me.  Some parts had me in tears, others had me pacing around at midnight.

Might as well try my questions:

1: It seemed that Kelsier was fluent in Spook's street dialect, and even conversed with Spook in the dialect at one point. So I'm assuming  Kelsier knew what Lestibournes really meant, and being who Kelsier was, giving him a new name probably was more about building the boy up, rather than just the length. That said, why Spook? If he was trying to boost Spook's self confidence, why use a name like that?

2: Given that Kelsier seems be keeping an eye out for everything from the beyond, how does Kelsier feel about how every turned out? Has his opinion on Elend changed? How did he react upon learning Lord Ruler's true nature? I'm guessing this may be a RAFO situation, but I might as well ask.

3: A question about Goradel. His end was very tragic, and was one of the things that had me in tears. The thing that really twisted the knife into me, is that he died that horrible death thinking that he had failed. When everything he tried to survive failed, his final act was to try to prevent the message into falling into Ruin's hands, but even that was futile. With those who seem to be active in the great beyond, did Goradel ever find out about what his actions helped to bring about? Was he ever thanked for his actions?

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Brandon, I believe in one of Sazed's epigraphs, he actually called it "Adonasium" rather than what you are referring to here, which is "Adonalsium". I'm thinking that's just a typo, right?

I don't suppose you could tell us which book series of yours will tell us more about Adonalsium, would you? You know, just so us theorizers on the forum know when to properly theorize about these things...

And people were asking what we'd have to do in this forum when there weren't any other wild theories to discuss. Now you tell us we've barely scratched the surface.

I knew you had Hoid popping up everywhere, but only realized that after reading Warbreaker and the first few Liar of Partinel chapters. I had no idea you had so many other connections between these series. Now I'm guessing that ALL your adult fantasy novels exist in the same universe (though...I'm not sure about Way of Kings...I need to check it later...). (I'm guessing Alcatraz and Scribbler are not connected.)

You can count on me to make an overly complex theory of everything that has little basis in reality. I'm good at that.

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?
Well, I guess this means that the proofreaders did not add the "L" when I marked the error on the manuscript. (sigh). Yes, the correct spelling is adonalsium. I will try to get this fixed for the paperback, but I've been trying to get that blasted steel/iron error in the back of book one fixed for two years now. . .

If it helps, Sazed would probably under-pronounce the "L" as that letter, like in Tindwyl's name, is said very softly in terris.

As for your other question, you will have to wait and see. Now, you could search my old books for clues, but I would caution against this. While there are hints in these, they are not yet cannon. Just as I changed how things were presented in the mistborn books during editing, I would have fixed a lot in these books during revision. Beyond that, reading them would give big spoilers for books yet to be released. White sand, dragonsteel, and way of kings in particular are going to be published some day for almost certain. (though in very different forms). Aether of night should be safe, as should final empire prime and mistborn prime, though of those three, only aether is worth reading, and then only barely. (it is still pretty bad).

I will post more later. They are calling my flight. (I'm at LAX)

Random thought time:

If Allomancy (A power of Preservation.) feels "right" to Vin while she's in the mists, (Areas where Preservation's power is concentrated.) would a power not of Preservation feel "wrong" to her? Like perhaps a certain mysterious planet-hopping "beggar" who is humming to himself one misty night?

Hmmmm . . .
I came because I heard stories, tales of a lengendary man.
A man who was known as the Lord of the Mists, a man they named Survivor.
A man called Hope.

Pygmalion

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......wooooooooooooooah......

I still can't stop thinking that in my head. It's all that's really coming to mind at the moment.

I made the stupid mistake of finishing the book this afternoon in a public place. Therefore I looked like a complete moron as I burst into tears when Elend died. I think it was a good ending. I'm still not totally decided on that. I'm just in shock.

It's just so amazing how the books progressed, developing into this huge cosmic epic that I never expected from just reading The Final Empire a year ago. I guess in some sense what I'm feeling is a slight sense of... awe, maybe? I want to know how he comes up with stuff. I mean seriously, talk about not just writing another fantasy series.

But I'm also shocked that no one else seemed to have figured out that Sazed was the Hero of Ages. I thought it might be him when I started the book, but it could as easily have been Vin or Elend. But at about a third of the way through, page 215 to be exact, there was this line from Sazed thinking in his head:

"I am, unforunately, in charge."

Sound familiar?

"I am, unfortunately, the Hero of Ages."

No one else would have used the same wording as Sazed did when he was thinking to himself. I have to assume that was intentional on Brandon's part. It was very subtle... I'm actually surprised I noticed.
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firstRainbowRose

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I made the stupid mistake of finishing the book this afternoon in a public place. Therefore I looked like a complete moron as I burst into tears when Elend died. I think it was a good ending. I'm still not totally decided on that. I'm just in shock.

I was at work and got to about 100 pages from the end with an hour and a half left until I could go home, so I decided I had best wait, and I'm glad I did.  (To explain, it took me about an hour to finish, with a few interuptions during that time.)

It actaully hit me at the same time, which I found kind of funny.
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'.  We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui.  For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'.  So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

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I think the ending hit everyone hard, regardless of what they say and who they are, maybe minus Brandon...since he is Adonalsium..so to speak....creator of Mistborn Universe....anyway, I think the fact that Brandon made all his characters soooo real, it would be hard not to become attached. I think some people would have like to have had the LOTR ending where we got to say bye to our "friends" is a nice and peaceful manner, but I think Vin and the gang would have preferred it this way...they were "balls to the walls" type people, heck Kelsier probably was jealousy of Elend, in the manner and dramatic fashion Elend faced his end, not to mention the emotionally charged response it had on Vin. I mean, she didn't do that for him (Kelsier)...lol!

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #134 on: October 19, 2008, 11:20:36 PM »
I would suggest that you write how you feel the story should be written.  Getting inspiration from someone is one thing, but changing your work because some people want a happy ending or dark ending takes away from the purity of writing.  The part you added in at the end where Sazed let Spook know Vin and Elend were happy in the afterlife really stuck me like a thorn.  I think it was apparent how happy they were together in life and how necessary their sacrifices were.  That would have been enough for me.
During the drafting process, anything and everything is subject to change. Brandon is a pragmatic writer; there are lots of changes he makes based on feedback from his agent, his editor, and alpha readers whose input he values. Yet he won't make any change if he thinks it won't work.

Ultimately, Brandon is answerable to the fans. People won't buy a book they don't like. Or rather, if they buy a book and don't like it, they're unlikely to buy more books from the same author, and unlikely to recommend it to their friends. Of course it's impossible to please everyone, and Brandon isn't trying to please everyone, but as he talks about a lot on Writing Excuses, it's important to fulfill the promises you make to the reader. You don't want your reader to feel betrayed.

Back in 2006 when I finished the book, I wrote to Brandon, "Can I hate you? You killed Vin and Elend. But you made a profound statement. You turned a cool adventure fantasy series into something else. I can't help but be impressed." He responded,
Quote
This is the thing I'm worried about.  Vin and Elend have been dead in my mind for quite some time, at least since the beginning of the second book.  The trick is, will readers go along with it? . . .  I'm hoping for responses like yours--emotional ones that see how the ending works, hate it anyway, but are satisfied with the series. . . . As for the spiritual side of the book, I did want to imply something with the last few paragraphs of the book, implying that Sazed has communicated with Elend, Vin, and Kelsier--so that there is an afterlife.  I might want to emphasize this, however, considering your response.
My response: "I trust you to take what's useful to you from my comments and put out an excellent final product even if it doesn't satisfy all my pet desires. I'm glad the kandra will get an ending. But being too specific about an afterlife ending for Elend and Vin can be dangerous, since it could tie things up TOO neatly and could torque other readers off."

So, Death Magnetic, your response was predicted, but I think it's very telling that the poster after you swung in the opposite direction. It's a very fine line to walk. Personally, I think Brandon pulled it off. I think some people here and there (on both extremes of the spectrum) are going to hate this ending (though how someone could be underwhelmed by it, like one Amazon reviewer, is a bit beyond me—but hey, there are millions of people in this world, and millions of opinions). But I think more will be so touched by it that they will tell their friends. I personally do like happy endings, but I also like to be touched emotionally by a book. This book really does it for me. It's tragic, and sad, but happy at the same time. It's very difficult to do well, but I think Brandon pulls it off.

But anyway, Brandon did do what he wanted to do with this ending. It just took some feedback from different people to verify that and tweak the words so they brought across what Brandon wanted.

My other suggestion is more of a plea really.  Please don't extend this series just to capitalize on it.  If you really feel there is more story to be told, then tell it.  I, for one, thought the ending would have been perfect if allomancy, hemalurgy, and feruchemy would have faded from existence as their corresponding gods did.  It would have been rather romantic to have people start over with a new "normal" world.
First off—I loathe endings like that, where the magic goes away. I think that's often breaking a promise to the reader. For example: Roald Dahl's Matilda. Yeah, I understand the thematic reason for that, but I don't want a book to tell me, as its ultimate message, "In a normal world, super powers have no place." Duh. I'm not reading fantasy to validate rationalistic philosophy or become better adjusted to face my own real life. I read it for the sense of wonder. If you're writing a fantasy novel, don't tell me, "Oh, the wonder's all gone now." (I'm glad the movie version of Matilda changed the ending so she can have a good life and keep her powers.)

Second, Brandon has always planned more Mistborn books. He has more to explore cosmologically, and the magic system is just so darn cool. Here's what I said: "The two metals will surprise you. Um, yeah? I'll bet. Does this mean an opening for some kind of sequel? But how could there be a sequel to this book? Could it possibly be as epic? You'd need an alien invasion or something, to compete against a god." Brandon replied (two years ago):

Quote
I actually would like to do three MISTBORN trilogies, but I don't know if I'll be able to get away with it.  My goal would be to write them in different times.  For instance, this is the ancient MISTBORN trilogy. The next one would take place in the same world, only five hundred years later, with a modern-style setting.  The final trilogy would be set in the same world, only have an sf/spacefairing setting.

It's just a kind of wacky idea I came up with.  Still, it intrigues me. I've never seen an author do something like that--update the world from medieval to modern to future in the same series.  What do you think?
When I read that paragraph, my heart about stopped. I responded:
Quote
YES YES PLEASE ARE YOU KIDDING ME YES I WANT TO READ IT NOW!!

Seriously I would be all over that, and I would love to see allomancers in space, but it could be very hard to pull off. I haven't read many SF/Fantasy combos. But it could be revolutionary. And it only makes sense. We've got historical fantasy and contemporary fantasy, so we need some future fantasy.
It's audacious and daring. It could fail on so many levels, especially the third trilogy. But I believe Brandon can pull it off. Not right away, but after he's built up some more of a fanbase (which is inevitable, given what he's writing now). He just has to make sure that he does it in a way that doesn't break promises to the reader. I'm looking forward to it.

Does that mean that he might someday, maybe, hopefully (pretty please) bring them back to life? I suspect that you might not answer, but can I atleast hope? Cause if anyone deserved to live a full NORMAL life it was Vin and Elend.
I think that Vin and Elend have had more than enough trials and tribulations for a full normal life, and the blank slate world that Spook and the others are in now is going to have its own challenges. But we have to remember that mortality is not the only state of existence, and sometimes there are better options. (Have you seen the movie Somewhere in Time? If not, rent it and watch it.)

I am glad that Brandon will be writing more Mistborn books, but I'm also glad that the cast of characters will be different (except for maybe Marsh and TenSoon and Sazed). Vin's and Elend's story is over, and they filled their roles masterfully.

Of course—if the Church of the Survivor lives on, worshipping Vin, we may NOT have seen the last of Vin's influence, since hemalurgically spiked people can communicate with the intermediate levels of the beyond. (Maybe only with Sazed, though, so perhaps not.)
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