***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****

[mtlhddoc2]

The body of Preservation did indeed fall into the ash after speaking with Elend.

But in the final scene, where Sazed seizes both powers, he does so by taking the mist from the body Vin and the smoke from red-headed body of Ati.

[happyman]

Yet another voice agreeing that both Ati and Leras had bodies.  Leras' body appeared after being killed by Ruin after he exposed himself to Elend.  Ati died when Vin sacrificed herself to kill him, and both Vin's and Ati's body fell out of the sky.  Ati's body is where Sazed got the power of Ruin from, just like he got preservation's power from Vin

I sense a deeper back-story here.  I cannot wait to find out what it is.

[Spider01]

The body of Preservation did indeed fall into the ash after speaking with Elend.

But in the final scene, where Sazed seizes both powers, he does so by taking the mist from the body Vin and the smoke from red-headed body of Ati.

Oh yes!!  I had a brain block for some reason on Ruin's body.  Of course his fell.  That is where Sazed got Ruin's power. 

The Red Hair reminded me!!!  D'oh!   

Thanks. 

[Reaves]

Hmm...I am wondering. Does Sazed have Ruin's body or not? My initial guess is not; the atium was all burned up. The question is though, will it reform at the Pits of Hathsin or go straight to Sazed, giving him even more power?

I would think it will reform at the Pits. After all, we need to give Marsh some way to survive until the next series. Marsh has all the abilities of the Lord Ruler, so using both the Allomantic and Feruchemical properties of atium he can live forever.

[zas678]

I don't think that it will go back to the Pits.  After all, Brandon has said (somewhere on here) that Sazed would probably not make more Atium.

[douglas]

That reminds me:
Are we ever going to get the full table of Feruchemical and Hemalurgic properties of all 16 metals?

In particular, is Atium really the only way to steal Allomantic Temporal Powers?  What category is Atium considered for the purpose of Hemalurgically stealing the ability to burn it?  I believe Atium-burning is a standard ability for Inquisitors under the Lord Ruler's reign, so if it's classified as Temporal like the in-universe chart at the time of Mistborn has it* shouldn't all Inquisitors have an Atium spike?  If so, why wouldn't Vin and Elend have taken that spike from the bodies of each Inquisitor they killed?

* or if Atium really just steals the ability to burn Atium, an inconsequential difference for Mistborn because I don't see the Lord Ruler caring about his Inquisitors being able to burn any of the real Temporal metals

How, exactly, are the Feruchemical abilities categorized and organized?  The abilities for the Allomantic Physical metals are obviously physical, and Zinc, Copper, and Bronze are clearly mental.  Brass's warmth seems a bit odd for the mental classification, though.  Gold's health I could see classifying as temporal by explaining it as speeding up the body's healing processes, but it would really fit better as a physical power.  Plus, if Inquisitors have gold Feruchemy and it's considered a Feruchemical temporal power, they'd need another kind of metal spike.  Also, I'd be interested to know what possible Feruchemical abilities might be classified as Enhancement.

What is the logic behind which Hemalurgic metals steal which abilities?  The four that steal normal human abilities make sense - the four base physical and mental metals, each stealing the physical or mental trait most appropriate for that metal given its Allomantic property (though Iron seems more of a case of being the last place available for its assigned ability).  Which of the alloys steals Allomantic abilities and which steals Feruchemical abilities of the same category is inconsistent, though.  For physical abilities, the external metal steals Allomancy and the internal steals Feruchemy.  For mental, it's the opposite.  And then you get into the enhancement metals where the base internal metal steals Allomancy...  The only known Hemalurgic temporal property is really one of the god metals, so we don't have much to work on there.

Oh, I doubt it will ever come up in a book, but what Feruchemical property does Larasium store?  Also, is there an Atium/Larasium alloy and what does it do for each of Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy?  I'd guess it makes an Atium Misting for Allomancy, but I have no clue about the other two.

Information about the properties of all god-metal alloys would be very interesting and neat to have, too, though I suppose Brandon might want to keep those in reserve for possible "divine intervention" by Sazed in future books.

[Raphael]

The Atium/Larasium alloy makes Atium mistings.

[Comatose]

What would an atium/larasium spike do?

[nerolabs]

So... I just finished Hero of Ages, and I have to say... this tops the tops of my all time favorite fantasy lists.  I love Jordan, Goodkind, Martin, and Scott Card but at this point Sanderson moves to the top of the list.  I KNOW I will buy ever single book he ever writes, if just to honor how much I loved the Mistborn series, and the honor he has for finishing the WOT.

The one thing that I found more spectacular and eerie was the HUMAN embodiments for Ruin and Preservation... how after they died they fell from the sky in HUMAN form.  Even Sazed speculates on how the division of the two powers had happend in the past (reminding me a bit of the Dark Crystal, and the eventual joining of the powers of the evil/good embodiments that happened when the Dark Crystal shattered).

No other mystery in the book - not the missing two metals, not contents of Sazed's "bible" he leaves to Spook) - nothing - is as mysterious to me and interesting that the HUMAN bodies that died when the opposing gods died.

I haven't heard much from Brandon (I read every post of his in this thread) other that RAFO, but if he was so inclined to give any sort of public hint on this I would be very appreciative.  Not the full answers, but some response to these theories...

All that I can think is that Ruin and Preservation (the physical embodiments that we saw when they died) where powerful Hemalurgist / Allomatic / Feruchemists in the past that were terrible rivals and split the powers of the natural universe in competition with each other and were dearly depressed / shocked when they realized they were equals in power and that their battle wasn't over.  What followed was a eons length battle (Way, way, way before Rashek's time, hundreds of thousand or millions of years) in which these two former humans battled in near stalemate until Preservation (whatever his original human name was) came up with a plan to eventually defeat Ruin.  

This first theory is discredited some because Preservation is told to have desired to create humans, and Ruin agreed in their bargain, but why are they both human when they die?

Given these thoughts, the other possibility is that Ruin and Preservation have been through this battle many times before - where there was no Hero of Ages to take the power of both and combine them as Sazed eventually did - and have embodied themselves in at least one, and perhaps many human hosts as Vin did so briefly.

Initially, Ruin and Preservation WERE natural entities and through their battles, one or more humans took over their conscience minds as they became weak (as Preservation did in these books, and as Ruin presumably had in the past) and took the power for themselves.  Therefore the black haired and red hair guys that died might have been spectacular humans in the past that took over the power of Ruin and Preservation through highs and lows of the battles of these two powers had in the past.

That is until Sazed finally was able to become the Hero of the Ages and fuse both powers back together.

All in all... I am sure I will be told to RAFO... but I would like to see if Brandon would be willing to describe at least a little of why these two forces (Ruin and Preservation) who were told to have created humans.. also have human form themselves.

Nero

[Comatose]

Perhaps they were humans from another planet/univers, who jumped worlds with their new found god powers.

[Czanos]

My personal theory is that they are not human themselves, but rather shards of a human. (Adonalsium.) This would explain why they had human bodies, and yet also cover why they were in complete balance with their power. Preservation could not destroy things, as he was only a fragment of a whole being. (The fragment that just happened to be concerned entirely with preserving things.)

[hoid354]

 It was weird that Ruin's (Ati's) body fell out of the sky, but it was Vin's body that contained the power of Preservation. It could be that they were planet-jumping shards (possibly like hoid???), and they created the humans on Scadriel, with the proper "genetic code" for the metallic arts.

[Raphael]

Vin drew in all of the mists and became what Leras was. (Personal thought: I keep on thinking of  Ascension [Stargate series]. Hehehe. Which, really, isn't all that different. Hmm....)

[Spider01]

.....No other mystery in the book - not the missing two metals, not contents of Sazed's "bible" he leaves to Spook) - nothing - is as mysterious to me and interesting that the HUMAN bodies that died when the opposing gods died.

I haven't heard much from Brandon (I read every post of his in this thread) other that RAFO, but if he was so inclined to give any sort of public hint on this I would be very appreciative.  Not the full answers, but some response to these theories...

All that I can think is that Ruin and Preservation (the physical embodiments that we saw when they died) where powerful Hemalurgist / Allomatic / Feruchemists in the past that were terrible rivals and split the powers of the natural universe in competition with each other and were dearly depressed / shocked when they realized they were equals in power and that their battle wasn't over.  What followed was a eons length battle (Way, way, way before Rashek's time, hundreds of thousand or millions of years) in which these two former humans battled in near stalemate until Preservation (whatever his original human name was) came up with a plan to eventually defeat Ruin.  

This first theory is discredited some because Preservation is told to have desired to create humans, and Ruin agreed in their bargain, but why are they both human when they die?

Given these thoughts, the other possibility is that Ruin and Preservation have been through this battle many times before - where there was no Hero of Ages to take the power of both and combine them as Sazed eventually did - and have embodied themselves in at least one, and perhaps many human hosts as Vin did so briefly.

Initially, Ruin and Preservation WERE natural entities and through their battles, one or more humans took over their conscience minds as they became weak (as Preservation did in these books, and as Ruin presumably had in the past) and took the power for themselves.  Therefore the black haired and red hair guys that died might have been spectacular humans in the past that took over the power of Ruin and Preservation through highs and lows of the battles of these two powers had in the past.

That is until Sazed finally was able to become the Hero of the Ages and fuse both powers back together.

All in all... I am sure I will be told to RAFO... but I would like to see if Brandon would be willing to describe at least a little of why these two forces (Ruin and Preservation) who were told to have created humans.. also have human form themselves.

Nero

Hey Nero,
You are thinking along the lines of what I posted a page or so back.  I feel better knowing that someone else could imaging that too.  

It would be cool if Brandon was able to give us more backstory on Ati/Ruin and Leras/Preservation, but I think that will not be until the unfolding of the future trilogies.

[leiftinspace]

Whew! I finally read through this entire forum! All 43 pages of it!  Firstly, to reiterate what almost everyone else has said already, loved the book, and the whole series too. I'd sing BS' praises more, but everyone else has done it better than IO could.
That being said, I have a question. 1/16 of those that were "Snapped" by the mists became seers, and they were ill the longest because atium was the most powerful metal, thereby apparently required more trauma to induce the Snapping. I wish I could give quotes and page numbers here, but I don't have the book with me. Anyway, I don't remember whether Sazed said this in an epigraph, or whether it was mentioned somewhere in this forum, but Preservation used the mists to Snap people in an attempt to enable Elend and Vin to better counter Ruin, but since so much of his mind and power was directly trying to counter Ruin, he wasn't able to pay enough attention to what the mists were doing, which is why the mists killed some people. My question is, if Preservation hadn't been distracted by Ruin and was better able to control the process, would those who died instead have lived and become mistborn instead. It just makes sense that if Snapping a seer required an even more intense sickness because atium was the most powerful metal, Snapping a Mistborn would require even more of one. OK, tear me apart now.

(It was Sazed, p. 534 HoA hardcover. The mists killed some people because most of Preservation's consciousness went to form Ruin's prison, kinda like a machine one turns on and leaves to do its job, then finds out it went haywire.)

BTW. Chaos, FirstChristmasSnow, and somebody else that I can't remember, I loved your signatures!