Author Topic: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****  (Read 146489 times)

readerMom

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 275
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • Books, mostly
This was one of the most emotionally and intellectually satisfying books I've read in a long time.  It makes me feel that 95% of what I read is just filler, between the truly incredible books that make me think and feel and sometimes cry for an embarrassing length of time.
HoA felt very much like an Orson Scott Card novel to me, especially ones like Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide because there was a lot of philosophy that relates to LDS theology.  It is sort of sneaky, I don't think anyone not LDS would notice, and I don't think you get less from it, but I felt an added connection through ideas such as opposition, the relationship between agency and free will and others I can't remember right now because I finished a few days ago and my husband has the book now.
Of course, it could be just me reacting to things that resonate with my own personal philosophy?  But in either case it was an absolutely incredible book.

Elmandr

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 291
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #256 on: October 22, 2008, 04:29:17 AM »
I also was a huge fan of the ball scenes. I laughed out loud at least once in every ball in the trillogy. I was kind of sad that Well of Ascension didn't have a single ball...
Hero of Ages very much returned to the roots of the first book in a couple of ways, I loved the parts with Spook in Urteau, I loved the ball scene...

the well of ascension was a necessity. Though everyone seems to think it a harder read. Im not sure that HOA would have been palpable if WOA wasn't written the way it was...
"I love you."
"you dont. You just think you do because i'm all you know."
"Really? So whats this burning sensation i'm having in my stomach?"
"Too much ale."
"Not love?"
"No. But i can see how you confused the two."
"I don't feel good."
"They do that to you."
"my legs, their numb."
"Hahaha!"
"haha!"

nescedral

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #257 on: October 22, 2008, 04:41:03 AM »
As a relatively new fan of Brandon’s work, I thought I’d thrown in my two cents.  Cough.. boxings, I mean.

First, I’ll take a stab at answering a question:
Roader said:
Quote
4.    Why would Atrim Mistings take extra time to heal from the mist attacks compared to other Mistings?
Preservation was behind the whole mist sickness (as evidenced by the #16 phenomenon).  Therefore, my guess is that Atium Mistings took longer to heal because Preservation made them sicker.  It must have been trying to let people know that this group was important.  Elend eventually got the message.  And why couldn’t they have been Mistborn instead?  Well, Mistborn are rarer, and there was a lot of Atium to be burned up.

And I’ll ask some questions of my own:
1.   The 1st gen Kandra knew all about Ruin/Preservation, but apparently the Terris people didn’t, otherwise they wouldn’t have been duped.  I figure Kwaan dug out the truth since we were told that he noticed Ruin changing the prophecies.  How was the rest of the story discovered and passed on?  How the heck did Kwaan or Rashek learn that Ruin was blinded by metal?
2.    I was a little confused by the transition between Vin, broken and defeated, and Vin, the walking juggernaut.  Were her broken bones healed by the infusion of Mist?  Were they ignored through an enhancement of pewter?  Was her body already beginning to become less corporeal?

Finally, some thoughts on the ending (I'll try to be a little original):
There are a few things that bothered me about the ending.  For example, I’m not sure how I feel about Sazed becoming a god, or rather, thinking of himself as one.  Although he inherited great power, humility was one of his defining personality traits.  And his intense faith struggle seems to be undermined by his ascension.  Who/what exactly was he struggling with if he himself becomes god at the end?  (Admittedly the “Shards” discussion comforts me.  Sazed needs something more ultimate, more fundamental, more mysterious, to continue trusting in, now that he's taken up the mantle of the Terris god.  Ado might fit the bill)

Another thing:  The humans hijack the whole epilogue.  We’ve been told that Marsh and TenSoon live on, but the book itself leaves us in the dark.    Marsh was the viewpoint character most tortured and twisted by Ruin.  And TenSoon spends most of the book deciding to help Vin and trying to find Vin, but ‘kills’ himself and never gets to see even Vin’s corpse.  I think they both needed one last brush stroke for us to be able to appreciate their tragedies and triumphs. 

However, I honestly can’t agree with the negative reactions to Vin and Elend dying.  Elend’s death was possibly my favorite scene in the whole book.
Quote
“Lost?” Elend whispered. “We’ve won, Marsh.”
That line gave me chills.  We have to be like Vin at the end of book 2: We have to accept their deaths because their willingness to make that sacrifice is what we love about them.  Sacrifice is a key theme to the whole series.  Yes, they died.  They died triumphant. 

Qarlin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 267
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The idiotic cock-eyed flum-dummery!
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #258 on: October 22, 2008, 06:49:34 AM »
2) Exactly how did Zane's cutting himself help to block Ruin's voice?

When in a blood frenzy the Koloss (or the inquisitors, for that matter) they become harder to control. At least, that's what makes sense to me. I think it relates to that.

Shadowkiller

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #259 on: October 22, 2008, 09:04:43 AM »
Well its my opinion that our dear author Brandon is tricking us.   Afterall, if you've read any of the Alcatraz series, you know he is a liar.   In any case, let me state my case for you.
  • We learn of Allomantic savants as Spook has become one.
  • Tin supposed increases ones senses.
  • This is shown several ways one of which is Spook becoming even sensitive to touch and it becoming painful for him to do things.
  • Spook thinks about how pewter and tin don't seem to be total opposites like many others are.
  • When Spook burns pewter, it dulls his senses so that he doesn't feel pain anymore.
  • Pewter is listed as increasing physical abilities.
As both metals are listed as increasing physical attributes, they don't seem opposite as they should be.   While I do believe in this example those two are opposites, I believe Brandon is specifically tricking us by letting him define the definitions of what they do.   What if I were to say that tin were increased physical input and pewter were increased physical output.   That would certainly make the definitions sound much more opposite.

It is my opinion that WE need to define what the metals do on our own and build our own chart.   Of course that won't stop me from getting a poster if it becomes available :D.

BTW, its my opinion that atium doesn't let someone see the future, it gives them understanding of the world around them.   Remember, it shows the person the future but it also gives them the ability to interpret what they see.   The four types of metal are Physical, Temporal, Mental and Enhancement.   I think Atium is all of them.   They talk about the person gaining grace to go along with it, mental capability to understand what they see, temporal of seeing the future, and the enhancement has me stumped but you get the idea.   If gold 'shows you your own past and atium gives understanding of the world around you, then a mixture gives you understanding of the past around you.   It might mix with only the base 8 metals(giving a nice 3x3 atium square vs the 4x4 allomantic square vs the other 3x3 Lerasium square, the 3x3 squares being atium or lerasium at the center with their mixtures of the base allomantic metals at the center) or maybe it mixes with all 16 for a whole new 4x4 square.   Even more fun would be to mix Lerasium and Atium together, then again maybe it'll just make an Atium Misting.

Hoping to see what you guys can come up with for this and to see if BS will acknowledge that I'm on the right track. :)

hamateur

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #260 on: October 22, 2008, 10:43:12 AM »
(snip)
What if I were to say that tin were increased physical input and pewter were increased physical output.   That would certainly make the definitions sound much more opposite.

(snip)

BTW, its my opinion that atium doesn't let someone see the future, it gives them understanding of the world around them.   Remember, it shows the person the future but it also gives them the ability to interpret what they see.   The four types of metal are Physical, Temporal, Mental and Enhancement.   I think Atium is all of them.
(snip)

That view of tin and pewter lines up nicely with FE calling them the internal physical pulling metal and the internal physical pushing metal.

Perhaps the 'nobody can read minds' rule and the 'atium is a freaky exceptional metal' thing are connected.  With pure atium, you read someone's intentions.  With malatium you read someone's past and/or self-image.  Both could be regarded as limited mind-reading.  Oh, except that Elend's atium+duralumin burst of insight seemed to contain things Marsh didn't yet know at all.  Gah!  There's always another secret way for a theory to fall apart.
Hemalurgy - don't try it at home

Shadowkiller

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #261 on: October 22, 2008, 03:39:57 PM »
I posted this last night before I went to bed and kept thinking about it as I fell asleep.   

So Tin increases physical input, pewter physical output.   To take that to the next step, make them effect metals instead of humans.   With Steel and Iron instead of physical input, there is metal input(if you don't stop it, it will end up inside of you but it can't get any closer than the center of you).   

Then with Brass and Zinc, there is dampening of emotion vs flaring of emotion.   Copper and Bronze essentially effect metals instead of humans, dampening the metals of yourself and those around you vs flaring it to the point of sensing it.

Gold and Electrum vs atium and malatium the problem was already noticed.   But above and beyond that, it doesn't follow the same rules.   Thats of course, like has been mentioned, atium and malatium do not belong on this chart at all.   Gold and Electrum(I still think they need to be redefined) effect humans, that means the next step is to effect metals.   Because of that I think the redefinition needs to be found before we can understand how that works.

Aluminum and Duralumin obviously effect metals, that means their counterpart must effect people.   Aluminum dampens the effects of metal right out of existance, Duralumin flares it so  its burned instantly.   That means that their counterpart Chromium and Nicrosil would dampen people vs flaring them.   To me, they would become weak, unable to think and unable to support themselves.   Or essentially become pewter & tin burners at the same time.

I think another idea supporting this is hemalurgy.   Check out the quick reference table in the back of the book(MB3).   You quickly notice the pattern to it, every other one essentially effects humans vs every other one effecting powers.   Because of that pattern, it becomes much easier to extrapolate things like Duralumin hemalurgy would steal human enhancement.   Not quite sure how that would work but maybe its another situation that needs redefining.

I think Feruchemy needs redefining also though that one may be a little harder.   With Atium, age seems wrong.   Spend time as an old man, get to stay young longer?   That would give decreasing returns as you did get older.   But wasn't the Lord Ruler using Atium to supplement his age?   It doesn't really make sense since Atium doesn't give you more age in Allomancy.   You can see the future, but its more than time in a bottle.   If instead I said that the definition of Atium Feruchemy was immortality, what might change?   You could still store age but there would be limits to its use, like you couldn't turn yourself into a child or younger.   Atium lets you be a part of a god for a mere moment so in turn channeling that timelessness into the Feruchemical storage allows on to stay timeless for long periods of time.   My definition is also not 100% perfect but I'm trying to think outside the box.   One could argue that Age is correct as you can put your own age in but that since Atium gives you essentially godhood and gods don't age, the process becomes infinitely more powerful when you intentionally age while burning Atium.   

Arionhawk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #262 on: October 22, 2008, 05:11:41 PM »
I think Feruchemy needs redefining also though that one may be a little harder.   With Atium, age seems wrong.   Spend time as an old man, get to stay young longer?   That would give decreasing returns as you did get older.   But wasn't the Lord Ruler using Atium to supplement his age?   It doesn't really make sense since Atium doesn't give you more age in Allomancy.   You can see the future, but its more than time in a bottle.   If instead I said that the definition of Atium Feruchemy was immortality, what might change?   You could still store age but there would be limits to its use, like you couldn't turn yourself into a child or younger.   Atium lets you be a part of a god for a mere moment so in turn channeling that timelessness into the Feruchemical storage allows on to stay timeless for long periods of time.   My definition is also not 100% perfect but I'm trying to think outside the box.   One could argue that Age is correct as you can put your own age in but that since Atium gives you essentially godhood and gods don't age, the process becomes infinitely more powerful when you intentionally age while burning Atium.   

Either at the end of FE or some time in WoA, I'm not sure which, they explain that if you can do both feruchemy & allomancy you can store stuff in the metals, and then burn them for an increased gain, at the cost of the metals. I hope that makes sense, I'll go back and look it up when I get home tonight.

trytoguess

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Would someone with Achlorhydia have difficulties burning metals? That is, do stomach acids have anything to do with the equation or just the fact that the metals make it to the stomach?
Remeber the Atium burning obligator? He just wore his metal on the forehead. It seems that all you need to do in order to burn metals is to simply have it in contact with your physical self. Course that's usually inefficient since another can take it away from you.

Qarlin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 267
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The idiotic cock-eyed flum-dummery!
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #264 on: October 22, 2008, 06:47:28 PM »
Would someone with Achlorhydia have difficulties burning metals? That is, do stomach acids have anything to do with the equation or just the fact that the metals make it to the stomach?
Remeber the Atium burning obligator? He just wore his metal on the forehead. It seems that all you need to do in order to burn metals is to simply have it in contact with your physical self. Course that's usually inefficient since another can take it away from you.
That was an extra bead for emergencies; Atium burns quickly.

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #265 on: October 22, 2008, 06:50:08 PM »
Would someone with Achlorhydia have difficulties burning metals? That is, do stomach acids have anything to do with the equation or just the fact that the metals make it to the stomach?
Remeber the Atium burning obligator? He just wore his metal on the forehead. It seems that all you need to do in order to burn metals is to simply have it in contact with your physical self. Course that's usually inefficient since another can take it away from you.
That was an extra bead for emergencies; Atium burns quickly.

It was also a symbol of his power, both as a Seer (that was a secret) and as a member of the previous legitimate government.  He viewed himself as a servant of the Lord Ruler, and atium was the Lord Ruler's tool.  It is like a crown.
Nature hates being reified.

trytoguess

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: ***SPOLIERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #266 on: October 22, 2008, 06:55:36 PM »
Would someone with Achlorhydia have difficulties burning metals? That is, do stomach acids have anything to do with the equation or just the fact that the metals make it to the stomach?
Remeber the Atium burning obligator? He just wore his metal on the forehead. It seems that all you need to do in order to burn metals is to simply have it in contact with your physical self. Course that's usually inefficient since another can take it away from you.
That was an extra bead for emergencies; Atium burns quickly.
Maybe, but remember when Marsh showed up he said something like we've only the seven beads that's in our cache. Not We've only seven cause I used 3 or 4 to protect myself against mistborn. I think he was the type that would beg forgivness by confessing his sins of wasting a metal desired by a servant of his god.  So it's probably safe to say he wasn't buring metals inside his stomach.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 07:06:55 PM by trytoguess »

Comatose

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 904
  • Fell Points: 1
  • A Shard of Adonalsium
    • View Profile
Ok, maybe my Ati aon theory is off, but Ado is definately an Aon.  I forget what it means though, does anyone have Elantris handy?
What if the city of Elantris is in itself the body of a shard?
"Look, I'm just trying to change the world, okay?  I don't have time for a grudge match with every poser in a parka!"
- Dr. Horrible

"There's always another secret..."
- Kelsier

kbob_o

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Well there's Edo but no Ado... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elantris#Aons

Vetta

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Well, I am a newbie and I know that I am going to get Flamed for this, I apparently am going against the flow here, but:

I HATE IT!!         Well not really, but I do hate that the two best characters that I came to know over the last 3 books gets killed!

Come ON.     Haven't they Sacrificed enough?      Say three books worth?

Sure, I know that it is necessary to occasionally kill great characters to give a story a more realistic feel and to give it the atmosphere of a dangerous world and add to the suspense.        But to kill the two MAIN characters right at the end for no reason other than to shock - does not ring my bell.

Sorry, but the "well I've talked to them and they are happy where they are and they need a rest" thing did not help me.       If death is so good let's all go out and jump in front of a few trains, so we can all be happy and rest also.

I understand Kel (except that he did not even fight), Doc and Clubs dying,   Those happened at normal places to (as I said before) give a story a more realistic feel and to give it the atmosphere of a dangerous world and add to the suspense plus for plot progression.        But with Vin and El I just think that they could have been incapacitated in other ways to accomplish the same end.        It's your book and your story though, but next time around I think that I'll wait until the whole set is out and then read the reviews first to see if they say something similar happens before I invest my time, and emotional well being.

Other than that, it was a SUPER book!           



A few OTHER points:

1.     Why if Vin had to be "Tuned" to Preservation" by the Well - did Kesler and Sazed (the real HoA) not have to be?

2.    Why after Preservation "died" (after he visited Elend) and Vin had sent her erring into Marsh's head, then she went directly out to help Elend and the army kill Kloss (without the erring) did the Mists not do the massive surge into her at that time?

3.    If Sazed was the HoA all along and he never had a spike in him, why did the Mists not go directly into him much earlier in books 1, 2 or 3?      Why wait, he was available ALL that time and was in the mists many times, what kept them away?

4.    Why would Atrim Mistings take extra time to heal from the mist attacks compared to other Mistings?     I would have thought it would have been Mistborn that took longer.       I think that it would have made the fight at the "Homeland" much more believable if they were all discovered to be Mistborn so that they could have had "Pewter" to give them strength and endurance as well as the Atium, because even with massive Atium they would have quickly become too exhausted to fight.        If they were all Mistborn it would have made it much more realistic (to me).

5.    Why did Sazed not “Heal” Marsh from the spikes?    And the Kanda/Kloss back to Humans?        Did he heal all the Terris eunuchs and the injured soldiers?      What about all the people in all the villages that were not near a cavern?

6.    Back in WoA the OreSeur / TenSon swap had too many clues for me  -  Actually I guessed that one immediately and then it had about 5 more clues that kept pounding away at it.

Other than that - It was truly a SUPER trilogy and I really hope you do another based 20 – 100 years out.    I really think that there is a lot more to explore in this world BEFORE you do the modern one.     Especially, with the Terris (Feruchemists) breeding with Allomancers.

I was really surprised that you did not have a few (very skilled) Coinshots doing the flying thing.      They would have to be much more skilled than the average Mistborn to keep from landing too hard but as long as they had coins/bits of metal they should be able to do it.


I can’t say enough praise for how you invented the four related magic systems and linked the magic and story all together excellently!!


BUT YOU KILLED THEM!!!      I can’t get over that!!!      I have therapy scheduled every day for the next year – I’ll send you the bill.   ;)


I miss Elend and Vin too, I really wanted them to have kids who were extra powerful, thereby making powerful Mistborn more common for a while.     Since there is now a base of Allomacy in the genes of a significant portion of the population, I had hoped that it would remain strong in the Vin/Elend decedent line for many generations.      I hate that this magic system is effectively fading away.     That sucks!

I also hated that Straff Venture was killed.      He was my favorite bad guy.       Reminds me of a boyfriend I once had.        I did love the way Vin killed him though!


I'm curious about your 1,2 &3.        Does anyone have a reason why Vin did not get all the mist sucked into her when she fought the Koloss at Fadrex City.      The Preservation mist Spirit was already dead by then.       I missed that when I read it but now I wonder why it happened.
I Mist You