3-30-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapters 15 and 16

[Reaves]

   My thoughts: A long submission this time! I am very pleased with Zael's chapter. I think I captured his voice very clearly. He is incredibly interesting to me. Hopefully he has the same effect on my readers.
   I am not quite so pleased with Marlin's chapter. This is an incredibly important part of his character, but I'm not sure I have foreshadowed it correctly. I'm also not sure if his "phobia" if you will, will make sense to all of my readers. After all, he doesn't have any problems learning to fight, but once he sees a sword he goes crazy? I'm just not sure I've explained it correctly.
   Also, I'm a tiny bit worried about Tristan's part. It feels a little bit cliche towards the end, with the images pouring through his head and then he goes unconscious. Is that something I need to be worried about or not?
   Once again, thanks to you all for consistently giving me great advice!

[RavenstarRHJF]

Long, but worth it!

Zael:
-I thought it was strange that there wasn't even a hint of him questioning the morality of taking someone else's soul to use for your own ends.  It just seems like you'd have to be pretty callous to not even question it... or pretty fanatical.
-There are a lot of places where you can combine ideas into one sentence to smooth out the narrative.  It flows ok now, but you could still smooth it out more.
-At last, some hint of why and what is going on!
-Point of consistency:

'Here' was the first level of the same needletower he had seen hiking up the island, slowly being rebuilt. A pair of guards were watching the stairwell he had just exited, with two more flanking yet another set of stairs.
   "Zael," one said. "You're wanted. Eighth level." He jerked upwards with his mailed gauntlet. A slight change; normally he was met on the first level.

There was no change, he is still being met on the first level.  Unless you mean that usually the boss comes to him?
-Why does Zael tell Ulidar his name if the Adjutant already knows it?

Marlin:
-I'm glad to see that though Trelawney evidently had it in for him, the other professors are apparently not.
-I don't think you overdid Marlin's reaction in the salle at all.  I think it's not only NOT too much, but very well done!  It seems like a perfectly normal reaction from someone who is horrified by his own ability to kill and is thrown in with a bunch of boys who have never killed.  One thing I would like to see is the swordmaster noticing Marlin's reaction and seeking him out.  He could probably do a lot to help him get over the horror.

(By the way, those previous chapters have made all the difference in understanding Aermyst's character... thanks for sending them!)

[ryos]

I just finished reading from the beginning. I'll admit that I really, really wanted to stop reading at around chapter four, and I'll admit that since then I've had my doubts about the viability of the story. These two chapters have convinced me that you have something here. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

I'm far too lazy pressed for time to go back and comment in the proper places, so I'll just dump a lump sum of general comments on you right here.

First order of business: I think you write great descriptions and solid action scenes. In fact, most everything that doesn't involve people talking or interacting is well-written. You do have a penchant for using words improperly (I think you at one point described a glove as being "mailed", and I had this image of the owner having received it through the mail), which you may want to look out for.

Dialog is not your strongest suit. (Don't worry, it's not mine either.) The best way I can describe it is that all of your characters feel socially awkward. Definitely watch out for that.

Also, interpersonal relationships. A lot of your characters' interactions felt stilted, unnatural, and contrived. I'm glad you plan on revising the Illis chapters, because Aermyst + Illis = groanworthy awkwardness. Secondary offenders are Aermyst + Tristan and even Aermyst + Dantes.

Next up: Aermyst is an idiot. A true, first class moron. He acts so stupidly in the first parts of the book that I find it very hard to sympathize with him.

First, he incurs a massive debt in order to buy heartcrystals, with no real plan for how to pay it off. I feel like he should have known that it wouldn't work - the fact that the crystal apparently comes to contain your soul, and that this is necessary for a crystal bond to take place, should have been enough to convince him that it wouldn't work.

(As an aside, how is it legal to sell heartcrystals? Considering how very easy it is to make a crystalheart, and the ready availability of crystals given you have enough money, I'm surprised anyone allows the Sacramency an exclusive monopoly on their use.)

Second, he goes barreling off after Zael, alone, having thought to buy a sword but of little else. Is he really so dense as to believe that he, in his weakened condition, could best a foe that destroyed him when he still had his crystal and was at full strength?

(Thought experiment: what if Aermyst were still in Hallastan when Zael attacks? This isn't my story and I haven't really thought through the ramifications, but it would let you avoid making Aermyst into a buffoon.)

There are other, smaller stupidities, like wandering unarmed into a dangerous section of town, or not even considering working for the mercenaries for a bit to try and pay down his debt, even if it's just until the caravan reaches its destination. I won't belabor the point too much because I think you can find other instances on your own. I'm not trying to say that characters should never make mistakes, but I am saying that, if you set a character up as competent, we'll only believe it if he acts like it.

Also, I see now that it is entirely in-character for Aermyst to illogically contemplate suicide immediately after fearing for what might happen if he dies without a soul.

I also put the following one-liners in notes; I'll let them stand alone without further comment:

Picking a lock in plain sight of the camp? Tristan is also an idiot.
Zael and Tristan fight. Dialog like bad chinese movie.
Though the two nations were at war, they still had to trade...did they? Seems silly.

I also wanted to react to Dantes' reception of Aermyst. It make me question how strong their bond of friendship ever was if he could be so completely and totally turned against Aermyst over a genuine mistake. Dantes expresses hatreds and resentments that surely must have their origins in happier times. Perhaps if we see a bit more of this in Dantes earlier on, his epic 180 would be easier to swallow. I hope we get to see them "kiss and make up" (heh, not literally ) at some point, as it seems only natural that they would.

Now, on to the current submission. It's hard to put a finger on why I liked it better than the rest. Maybe it's because you wrote dialog that flowed pretty well, or interpersonal relations that felt natural. Maybe it's because none of the scenes featured Aermyst.

When I picture Mourne in my head, I see a darker version of Waka from Okami (I tried to find a picture on the Internets, but all I could find was fan art). Not sure if knowing that will actually help you with the story, but I wanted to share.

I also liked that Marlin has kind, encouraging teachers. It's a nice contrast to [Trelawney]. I also keep waiting for him to try and go over her head, find a sympathetic ear higher up the command chain. That may end up just making things worse, but even if it does it seems like something he should try.

I thought his horror at the sword was well done, with one exception:

That day he had discovered something that hid within himself, a dark dragon that told him he liked killing.

I haven't seen this in Marlin. We see guilt and horror at having killed, but not fear of becoming a monster. You could cut that sentence and it works well, but if you want to keep it you may want to go back and put some more of the fear in with the shock, horror, and guilt.

Sorry to dump such a load in one place; in my defense, that's 16 chapters' worth of critique. It certainly turned out longer than I'd anticipated. I can honestly say I'm looking forward to the next installment.

[Frog]

Okay, I’ve been putting this off for awhile but here it goes…. This is the point where I would officially put your book down and here is why:

POV/Character lines- I feel like you have far too many. Since this has started you have had 6 and every time you break off a new character line, you fill the world for that character, so you are ending up with millions of little characters I can’t keep track of. I like to watch full character archs develop and right now I feel like all your giving me is snap shots and it makes it hard to keep track of motivations and character goals that would move the story along. I want to know who’s arch I am following and you can have more than one but 6+ just seems like far too much. It maybe partially a reading group problem, but it’s chapter 15 and I honestly don’t know where your story is and I see that as a major turn off.

The good news here is that you’re characters are good enough that I feel you could basically pick any of them to be your focus and I would be fine.

Suggestions to fix this issue (take them or leave them): Based on your current outline, pick out the characters that have the most to say and establish them as the main characters from as close to the beginning as you can. Then stick with those characters as much as possible, leaving the rest as background that contribute to the story only when they interact with your chosen few. If you get stuck with a character, consider ways to add more to their surrounding and inner workings before character jumping.

Confusion- You trade confusion for suspense almost exclusively. You are very good at spreading out details of the character’s current surroundings and motivations, but I still feel I know very little about your world, magic system, or anything else. Every time I think your about to start answering questions, you bring up a dozen more. I know most authors will tell you to show and avoid infodumps, but I think you have reached the point where you need to start telling us something because I HATE being confused.

The good news here is that you seem to be very good at spreading out details of the characters current setting and motivations so it flow which leads me to my suggested fix: do the same thing with everything else. If you spread out the telling details you can avoid confusion without it looking feeling like a complete info dump. For the most part, if our POV characters know something, we should know it too.

And the number one reason I would stop right now, is because it is chapter fifteen and none of the current conflicts seem very pressing. Aermyst still doesn’t have a soul, but I haven’t seen any progress on that, so it has been let to fall to the background. Zeal says he is saving the world, but I don’t know what from, so that falls to the background as well. Marlin has an overly strict teacher and is afraid of swords but that really doesn’t seem like enough at this point. And then Tristan, well I suppose you have some good conflict with him getting attacked by something at the end but all I was thinking at that point was ‘oh brother, another pov, bringing out another thing I know nothing about.’

Good news is that I see lots of potential for conflict, if you choose to bring it out more. Show us more of the Zealites (maybe even put them earlier). Give your other characters leads (even false leads) to keep them going and bring out their major conflicts.

Sorry if any of this sounds overly harsh. I still think your book has a lot of potential, and am interested in many of the small plots points you have hinted at. Once I got myself to read them, I can agree with the others and tell you that these individual scenes show lots of little improvements in writing style issues so please don't give up. Just move it along a little, okay?

[Reaves]

Okay.
 First of all Ryos, thanks so much for pushing through it all despite the infamous chapter four.

I just want to restate what you have said so I am getting this right. The biggest weakness is the  socially awkward dialogue and the idiotic main character. Is that right?

Frog, you are saying that the characters are generally sound, but there are too many POV characters. However, the main flaw is the pacing; you don't see a main conflict and you don't really know anything about the world. Is that right?


In-depth things:

I hadn't actually realized how stupid Aermyst is at times I'm no genius myself, but still...

First, he incurs a massive debt in order to buy heartcrystals, with no real plan for how to pay it off. I feel like he should have known that it wouldn't work - the fact that the crystal apparently comes to contain your soul, and that this is necessary for a crystal bond to take place, should have been enough to convince him that it wouldn't work.

This has already created plot holes for me beyond what you are saying


About Dantes: to be honest, I kinda expected people to wonder why and how he changed. The way it is written most people see him as inconsistent. I guess this is one of those worldbuilding explanations that Frog wants, but can't give her for quite some time yet.

About Mourne: afraid I don't know what Okami is. I will say that jwdenzel nailed it when he said Mourne was Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7. However, the chapter 2 that you saw is not the chapter 2 that he saw. :shrug:

Suggestions to fix this issue (take them or leave them): Based on your current outline, pick out the characters that have the most to say and establish them as the main characters from as close to the beginning as you can.

Here is my problem! When you say "based on your current outline," I say, "what is that?" Seriously, the only outline I have is in my head. Not something I want to try again, tackling a book this long without an outline.

Confusion- You trade confusion for suspense almost exclusively. You are very good at spreading out details of the character’s current surroundings and motivations, but I still feel I know very little about your world, magic system, or anything else. Every time I think your about to start answering questions, you bring up a dozen more. I know most authors will tell you to show and avoid infodumps, but I think you have reached the point where you need to start telling us something because I HATE being confused.

Good insights. A lot of what you are saying feels like stuff I already know, but couldn't put into words and couldn't recognize myself if you asked me. Thanks.

And the number one reason I would stop right now, is because it is chapter fifteen and none of the current conflicts seem very pressing.

This is where I say, in chapter 12 of Eye of the World, Rand had just crossed the Taren Ferry. Yup, not even out of the Two Rivers yet.
What's that you say? I'm not Robert Jordan?
...crap.

I think you are quite right about the pacing. I have conflict, but none of it is urgent, and that needs to change.

[ryos]

First of all Ryos, thanks so much for pushing through it all despite the infamous chapter four.

Heh, I didn't know it was infamous. Sorry to beat a dead horse.

I just want to restate what you have said so I am getting this right. The biggest weakness is the  socially awkward dialogue and the idiotic main character. Is that right?

That's about it, although the dialogue is secondary to the fact that the interactions themselves are stilted. The way Aermyst and Illis treat each other just isn't natural, and wouldn't be even if the dialog were flawlessly written. That's the biggest example, but pretty much any time two people interacted before chapter 12 or so I just rolled my eyes.

Also, Okami is a great video game for PS2 and Wii. Very similar to Zelda in gameplay, if not in content. Here's a nice bit of fan art depicting Waka. Apparently he has blonde hair, not silver like I'd thought (I was fooled by the headscarf-thing he wears).

[Frog]

Frog, you are saying that the characters are generally sound, but there are too many POV characters. However, the main flaw is the pacing; you don't see a main conflict and you don't really know anything about the world. Is that right?

I wouldn't say I know nothing about the world (they are in a feudal desert, right?) but some more 'state of the union' stuff, some more of it's inner workings and culture; yeah, that would be nice. Other than that, yes, you're exactly right. I'm glad you were able to translate my gibberish, once again. 

Suggestions to fix this issue (take them or leave them): Based on your current outline, pick out the characters that have the most to say and establish them as the main characters from as close to the beginning as you can.

Here is my problem! When you say "based on your current outline," I say, "what is that?" Seriously, the only outline I have is in my head. Not something I want to try again, tackling a book this long without an outline.

Yes, it certainly does make things harder at times. 

And the number one reason I would stop right now, is because it is chapter fifteen and none of the current conflicts seem very pressing.

This is where I say, in chapter 12 of Eye of the World, Rand had just crossed the Taren Ferry. Yup, not even out of the Two Rivers yet.
What's that you say? I'm not Robert Jordan?
...crap.

Are you sure you want to go into RJ with me? Honestly, I'm not a huge fan, but I did read Eye of the World and enjoyed it for the most part. As such, I can tell you that one of the reasons that worked for him was that his conflict was very clear and he had his characters actively reaching towards their goals even if they obviously had a very long way to go. So that is what I need from Aermyst and whoever else you have in the POV spotlight. Some goals and a way to measure their progress... or lack there of.

Oh, and one disclaimer you might want to consider in some of this is that I am in the process of chopping and focusing and outlining my own multi-line, multi-character book that sometimes gives me a headache even though I love it, so the last thing I want to read is something that I see as having the same type problems. Now people having problems where I actually see a few of my strengths, bring it on....   

Anyway, thanks for taking the criticism so well and I look forward to see what you come up with for next time. For my part, I will try very hard to be less confused and more specific in my criticism. Good Luck!