3-9-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, Chapter Twelve

[Reaves]

Another week, another round of submissions. As always thanks for all your comments!

NOTE: I mention Artificing somewhere in this chapter. I've made a few changes to my world; they are basically guys who study the relics.

[Necroben]

Oh, surely Aermyst could count on Deragon to keep his secret, but rumors would grow.

Maybe add a lament to what he said in front of the children.

This wing of the Sacramency was still made of the same ethersteel it had been built as.  …because the stuff was nearly indestructible.

I had the impression that the people of this time couldn’t rework the ethersteel into something else.  So what would it have been reworked as?

I really like how you started with Deragon’s pov, but it seems to shift several times throughout the scene; it gets a little confusing.  But Dantes is alive!  Yea!  And boy is he pissed!  Now don’t get me wrong, I would be too, but…  It comes off a little contrived.  Be mad or not, the going back and forth for Deragon’s sake throws it off a little, for me.

More than two hundred ago.

I think you mean years.

Several different bobbles of thread; white, black. Blue, red, and green.

Unless these colors become really important later on you could probably do with out mentioning them.  Even so, you could probably get away without mentioning it at all, even if you do use them later.

The dirty man who had been touching her backed away.

Did he touch her?  I thought she slapped his hand away.

She continued running, long legs eating up the sand.

Enter Tristan to the rescue?

The submission was great!  I wanted to keep reading to find out what happens next.  I really don’t know enough about Dantes to say whether he was in character or not, especially after such a trauma.  It’s a rather tricky situation that I think you pulled off well.  Out of my own nit-pickiness I saw (or hoped) Dantes would react in a different manner, but by the end it was believable.  I loved it, great job!

[Reaves]

Oh, surely Aermyst could count on Deragon to keep his secret, but rumors would grow.

Maybe add a lament to what he said in front of the children.

sorry but could you clarify? Do you mean the curse that Deragon spouted off or the bit where Aermyst was like, "I can't, I really can't right now." ?

This wing of the Sacramency was still made of the same ethersteel it had been built as.  …because the stuff was nearly indestructible.
I had the impression that the people of this time couldn’t rework the ethersteel into something else.  So what would it have been reworked as?

I'm going to need to rethink/ re-explain how this stuff works. It is pretty much invincible but after five millenia its been damaged. Or perhaps it was damaged during the mysterious Ending...honestly haven't decided yet But anyway a lot of the tower tops have been replaced with brick and mortar so these guys can at least get a roof over their heads. Basically the idea is that Deragon used to be in a more modern part of the Sacramency where the walls were made of stone but then after some unfortunate explosions they moved him to a section where the ethersteel was still there.

But Dantes is alive!  Yea!  And boy is he pissed!  Now don’t get me wrong, I would be too, but…  It comes off a little contrived.  Be mad or not, the going back and forth for Deragon’s sake throws it off a little, for me.

This is the real point of the submission. Dantes. I tried to poke a little bit of fun at the audience through him; so you thought that this was Aermyst's story, did you? Of course only the POV character could survive the terrible attack...you arrogant bastard!

Thanks for pointing out the back and forth. When I was reading it over I did feel Dantes' emotions were a bit inconsistent but I couldn't pinpoint exactly why. You are right.

Right now neither Aermyst nor the reader knows Dantes' full motivations. Actually, he doesn't really understand them himself. There is a lot going on under the surface here that I have only begun to hint at.


Anyway, I like to think that from here on in, the dialogue gets much better. More humor, more in-depth conversations. The dialogue starts to carry more of the plot instead of Aermyst wandering around in the desert and being attacked.

[Frog]

Thoughts While Reading:
Doesn't your world have lots of gods? Then which one is Deragon referring to when he swears?

Are you sure you want to start out with Deragon's POV? Don't get me wrong, he looks like an interesting character,  it just is a little disorientating and I am not sure how much it adds to your story... Anyway, you drop into Aermyst's POV here: "Easier said than done, Aermyst thought." and then again in a few other places.

"Every crystalheart has a minor flaw, something only tolerated by his or her fellows; for Deragon, it was this."
Statement seems a bit too telly, mostly because I don't see how it is a flaw. I think it would be interesting.

"Aermyst shrugged defensively, still smiling."
If I realized I had buried my best friend I would be horrified, apologetic, and, of course, thrilled to see him. Not defensive.

"A brother would not have left me dead on the sand.
"I lost my soul, Aermyst. I would do anything to get it back. Anything. Including selling yours. And you call me brother."
Dialogue seems way off here. Is he accusing Aermyst or himself of being a poor brother?

Why is the wine so hot?

Why did Dante even bother to pretend for Deragon if he was so upset and has no problem dropping the act as he takes over later? I am really having trouble with his motivation, at least I'd like to see a bit more consistency.

I thought Ilis was abducted and she was allowed to pack and plan it all so carefully? Either way, I wouldn't describe her pack so much unless it becomes way important later.

"He wore black clothes, and his boots were polished black. He wore black gloves that encased his slim fingers."
Unless you have a good reason for it, dressing the villain in black just seems WAY too obvious.

The panthers showing up just seems a bit too conveniently placed for me to buy it.

Wow, are the panthers usually that vicious? If so, I would think they would have been more prepared for it.

Overall impression:
I would look over the Dante section again, just for flow and dialogue stuff. It really seems off to me for some reason... inconsistent at the very least. I was happy to see Dante again, but now it just makes things even more mysterious. I really think you should be giving a lead on some of this stuff soon. No more wondering/hanging around aimlessly, because I honestly feel like you reached your quota on that, but  it was a good chapter overall and I am interested to see some more interaction with these characters. Good job.

Edit:

But Dantes is alive!  Yea!  And boy is he pissed!  Now don’t get me wrong, I would be too, but…  It comes off a little contrived.  Be mad or not, the going back and forth for Deragon’s sake throws it off a little, for me.

This is the real point of the submission. Dantes. I tried to poke a little bit of fun at the audience through him; so you thought that this was Aermyst's story, did you? Of course only the POV character could survive the terrible attack...you arrogant bastard!

Oh, by the way, that struck me as really funny. I like it when authors/characters poke fun at me

[Necroben]

Oh, surely Aermyst could count on Deragon to keep his secret, but rumors would grow.

Maybe add a lament to what he said in front of the children.

sorry but could you clarify? Do you mean the curse that Deragon spouted off or the bit where Aermyst was like, "I can't, I really can't right now." ?

Sorry, I meant in more like, he might wish he hadn't said what he did in front of the children about his secret.  As they would be the first to start whatever rumors would go around.

[Reaves]

Thoughts While Reading:
Doesn't your world have lots of gods? Then which one is Deragon referring to when he swears?

I've gotten a couple questions about the religion of the world. I don't think I'll answer them here though. Its not really all that confusing, its actually a bit similar to Martin's, it just hasn't got much page time yet.

"He wore black clothes, and his boots were polished black. He wore black gloves that encased his slim fingers."
Unless you have a good reason for it, dressing the villain in black just seems WAY too obvious.

Apagard is basically a bandit wannabe In this case I drew attention to his impeccable outfit of crime on purpose. If he was going to be an actual reoccurring villain I would have avoided the cliche.

The panthers showing up just seems a bit too conveniently placed for me to buy it.

Yeah. You know its not a good sign when you are sitting there writing and then you go, "oh crap. How am I going to get her out of this? ... -continues writing- "Suddenly, panthers attack."
I figured that because the panthers aren't trying to help her and are in fact trying to kill her it wasn't quite a Deus Ex Machina. I could be wrong. Either way, I don't really see what else I could do. I've done a lot of foreshadowing some kind of panther attack, and I'm not going to let Ilis get raped

Overall impression:
I would look over the Dante section again, just for flow and dialogue stuff. It really seems off to me for some reason... inconsistent at the very least. I was happy to see Dante again, but now it just makes things even more mysterious. I really think you should be giving a lead on some of this stuff soon. No more wondering/hanging around aimlessly, because I honestly feel like you reached your quota on that...

Yeah. I might have to rethink a bit of the pacing in the chapters ahead. The plot stretches out a bit because you get more Marlin viewpoints, a few more Ilis ones, a Tristan viewpoint, a Zael viewpoint, and Deragon gets a few as well. Less room to advance the main plot. The Zael viewpoint does do a bit of explaining, I think, but really both it and the Tristan viewpoint raise more questions than they answer.


As always, thanks for the critiques! Lots of great things to improve on here.  I'm glad you guys liked it. Hopefully I can do more like this in the future!

[Frog]

Its not really all that confusing, its actually a bit similar to Martin's, it just hasn't got much page time yet.

It haven't read anything by Martin, so that may be our trouble right there. .

And now it is time for some unsolicited advice by Frog:

I have no problem with the funnies. I love the funnies and personally have a lot of trouble taking anything seriously when I write. The problem I am having here is just the book’s overall tone. The guy lost his soul and he’s been brooding over it. It makes the book more somber and when you do go for the funny, it just strikes me as way out of place. So I think you need to decide what overall mood you want for the book and if you want to go for the funnies, make it a bit more obvious. Something to let the audience know your doing it on purpose and it’s okay to laugh, because to be honest a lot of times when you do it right now it just strikes me as poorer writing.

And as for the characters and character lines. That was also something I did a lot in Opal and now I am paying the price; working to cut them down a merge them together for the climax. I am not saying that you can’t have them, and I will be keeping quite a few of mine, just don’t lose sight of where your focus is.

Okay, Frog officially shutting up now. You're really doing a good job overall so keep it up!

[Reaves]

The overall tone of the book isn't that dark, though Aermyst is on the inside. He counters it with jokes and a care-free air. Of what I've written of this book so far this section is the darkest.

I've got another book planned where the world is quite dark, so dark its almost pitch. However, the main character of that one isn't, in fact he is pretty optimistic. In my opinion, the contrast increases the effect.
Its basically the same philosophy with the humor. Dantes' dark humor only accentuates his anger...in theory. Its up to you guys to tell me if its working, and from your comments I need to make Dantes' responses a bit more consistent.

[jwdenzel]

"Pay attention! I'm not doing this for my health, you know."

A little cliche.   (?)

"God's balls man, I heard you were dead!"
   "You seem to have become freer with your tongue lately," Aermyst said, his gesture taking in the children.
   "You know what they say. Profanity is good for the soul."
   Aermyst blinked. "You know, I don't think I've heard anyone say that."
   "Think harder. You must have heard it somewhere."

This joke felt dragged out.

Every crystalheart has a minor flaw, something only tolerated by his or her fellows; for Deragon, it was this.

Why is this a flaw?

RE: Dante's return.   Kudoes to you for throwing in a plot twist like this to stir things up.   Unfortunately:

"How were you to know?" Dantes asked. "Any of the usual ways would have done, I suppose. Check for a pulse. Listen for my breathing. Slap me a couple times."

I don't buy this for a minute.  Aermyst seriously thought his friend was dead? He's killed how many people in his life?  And he can't tell when his best friend is dead?

Sorry, but the whole situation feels comical to me. Unfortunately, not in a good way.

"A brother would not have left me dead on the sand."

Dante's motivation of feeling such blind hatred of Aermyst also feels way out of place.  If my best friend had buried me alive, thinking I was dead, yes, I would be upset as well. (Why wasn't he suffocated, btw?)  But I wouldn't hate him and disown him as my friend. Especially if it became obvious that my friend was just an idiot and had no malicious intent.   Maybe Dantes would, but how does that make Aermyst "egotistical"? Or the "center of his own story"?

Dante's motivations and reasoning don't match up, and for me at least, it made the rest of the chapter feel off. 

Later, Dantes calls Aermyst an "egotistical prick."  Why?  There's no solid motivation for this that we can see.

Now if Dantes actually has some reasons and Aermyst is as confused as we are; that's fine.  But that was not obvious to me as I read it. IT seems like Dantes is holding a grudge for being buried alive.   

The wine steamed and hissed

That's some tough wine!  (Hissed?)

"I suppose you could talk to Tellarin. He's taken to books in the last few years. He might know of something like this."
   Tellarin had been another of Aermyst's teachers. He had always been something of a scholar, teaching history, geography, and politics at the Sacramency.

If he "had always been" a scholar, etc... then why had he only recently "taken to books"?

RE: Ilis  scene.   I have the same comment as the last time we saw her.  This is just another chapter where her attractiveness is the cause of conflict.  She gets harassed, she slaps the bully, and then gets saved by a man.

I'm jus' saying.  ;-)

That is, until...


AT LAST....

A SAND PANTHER!

WOO HOO!

Although, alas, it's Dues Ex Machina.

Overall, this chapter didn't do much for me.  Dante's return really felt crammed in there. The Illis scene didn't really advance her plot either.

But I enjoyed finally seeing Sand Panthers.

[Reaves]

RE: Dante's return.   Kudoes to you for throwing in a plot twist like this to stir things up.   Unfortunately:

"How were you to know?" Dantes asked. "Any of the usual ways would have done, I suppose. Check for a pulse. Listen for my breathing. Slap me a couple times."

I don't buy this for a minute.  Aermyst seriously thought his friend was dead? He's killed how many people in his life?  And he can't tell when his best friend is dead?

He was dead. At least, it would have been impossible for anyone to come to the conclusion that he was alive.

I haven't really foreshadowed that much at all, I know. Its just the whole thing is supposed to feel a little fishy to my readers: I mean, these guys just had massive holes ripped through their chests, but then when Aermyst wakes up he just has a small scar? Hence the reason both Dantes and Aermyst refer to having died.
 |
 |
 |
\/

"A brother would not have left me dead on the sand."

Dante's motivation of feeling such blind hatred of Aermyst also feels way out of place.  If my best friend had buried me alive, thinking I was dead, yes, I would be upset as well. (Why wasn't he suffocated, btw?)  But I wouldn't hate him and disown him as my friend. Especially if it became obvious that my friend was just an idiot and had no malicious intent.   Maybe Dantes would, but how does that make Aermyst "egotistical"? Or the "center of his own story"?

Also this is supposed to feel a little fishy. All will be explained in time, I promise (MWA HA HA!!)
The things Dantes is referring to -- being egotistical and etc -- is half his own thoughts, and half me poking fun at the reader    After all, these two men experienced pretty much the exact same set of events, so why should Aermyst survive? Why is he special? Because he's the main character of course dummy NO! So this is Dantes blaming Aermyst for assuming he was special somehow.

Dante's motivations and reasoning don't match up, and for me at least, it made the rest of the chapter feel off. 

His motivations are supposed to feel a bit strange. However, not enough to make you not like the chapter Basically, what I wanted readers coming away with from this chapter was that, hrmm, there is more going on here than I thought at first. Not that it was inconsistent and unmotivated

Now if Dantes actually has some reasons and Aermyst is as confused as we are; that's fine.  But that was not obvious to me as I read it. IT seems like Dantes is holding a grudge for being buried alive.   

Now, its all well and good for me to keep on repeating that he does have reasons. However, if people can't get past this chapter then he might as well be the best character ever created and yet no one will know. Are the seeming inconsistencies going to turn people off too much?

RE: Ilis  scene.   I have the same comment as the last time we saw her.  This is just another chapter where her attractiveness is the cause of conflict.  She gets harassed, she slaps the bully, and then gets saved by a man.

I'm jus' saying.  ;-)

That is, until...

A SAND PANTHER!

Although, alas, it's Dues Ex Machina.

Guilty. I mentioned this before but basically I am revamping Ilis' character completely. I've already written what will now be her first viewpoint chapter and you'll be pleased to know there are no mentions of her looks  Hopefully I can develop her into a meaningful character that can add more to the story and address the problems people have had with her.

Overall, this chapter didn't do much for me.  Dante's return really felt crammed in there. The Illis scene didn't really advance her plot either.

So, one person liked it, one was kinda meh, and you didn't like it. Chapter /fail Too bad. I had a lot of hopes for this one.

[jwdenzel]

Fail?  Hardly.   You're getting lots of feedback to improve it.  Better we tell you this stuff than Tor's editors, right?

Re: Dantes... your replies to my feedback say that there's "more going on."   And "he was clearly dead".   That was not obvious to me as I read it.  All of the responses you had just now might be good things for Aermyst to think.   Cause right now, his only reaction boils down to "Dantes doesn't like me anymore and won't accept my apology."   

I think if you really build up the mystery here, and show Aermyst at least wonder (if not ask) how this really happened, then I think the scene won't feel so funny.

Just my two copper angels.

[Reaves]

Fail?  Hardly.   You're getting lots of feedback to improve it.  Better we tell you this stuff than Tor's editors, right?

WHAT!!! YOU MEAN ITS NOT ABSOLUTELY PERFECT JUST AS IT IS!!?? HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO DECIEVED?~!!!!!
(lol)

Re: Dantes... your replies to my feedback say that there's "more going on."   And "he was clearly dead".   That was not obvious to me as I read it.  All of the responses you had just now might be good things for Aermyst to think.   Cause right now, his only reaction boils down to "Dantes doesn't like me anymore and won't accept my apology."   

I think if you really build up the mystery here, and show Aermyst at least wonder (if not ask) how this really happened, then I think the scene won't feel so funny.

Good point. I like it. Its happening.


Also just so you don't misunderstand me, when I say what it was "supposed" to be, I mean that is what I was going for, and obviously failed. I am a firm believer that at least when I am delivering the product, the customer is always right