what the metals do in feruchemy and hemalurgy

[echigo109]

 here is a spot to speculate on what the metals   nicrosil, chromium, caddidium, ceroben, duraluminum, aluminum, do in hemalugy and feruchemy.

if any one knows where another discussion is for this please tell me.                      

[Reaves]

I think some people might have been talking about this in the stickied Spoilers thread at the top. I don't really have anything to add though; sorry!

[pirsquared]

I'm new to TWG, but I have some good ideas:

Feruchemy:
Cadmium: stores time speed
NotCerrobend: Stores time (if you jump ahead five years in time (and store those five years) you could later go back five years).
Aluminum - Feruchemical 'garbage can'; funnel your stored powers into it from another metalmind and they will disappear
Chromium - if you are touching a metalmind with someone else's stored powers, you can funnel them into your chromiummind and make them dissappear
Duralumin - funnel your powers through it into a Nicrosilmind (sends stored powers)
Nicrosil - recieves stored powers; when you receive them you can either in turn store them into one of your metatlminds or just allow them to take effect
Electrum - stores existence. (You can store existence by being 'not present' from your body, but your body must still be able to survive (you would fall into a state of unconsciousness for a selected time.  Later, you could withdraw that power in order to stay conscious no matter what - even if you were blasted into pieces you would still 'exist' until your reserve disappeared.  But this needs some work, because you'd have to be touching your metalmind).

I think notcerrobend needs some sort of limitation on how far into the future you can go.
I like the idea of the Enhancement metals being 'funnels' through which the user can channel his powers, but it's not consistent with the nature of metalminds, so I'm not sure if it would work.  Also, I'm not sure whether or not you should be able to choose whether or not to let powers enter your Nicrosilmind.
Atium stores age, but Lerasium is very different.  Perhaps it could store the power of Feruchemy itself? That has lots of problems with it, but I can't think of anything better.

Hemalurgy:
I don't have as many ideas here.  In each set of four, two metals steal ordinary things and the other two steal Allomancy and Hemalurgy.  That leaves two Temporal and two Enhancement that are unknown.
Temporal Ideas:
A metal that steals memories and/or knowledge would be cool (you steal the memories of the Person you kill).
A metal that steals life?  If you kill someone who has fifty years left to live, you live fifty years longer?  That has some problems, because you really don't know how long someone is going to live until they die.

As for Enhancement and God metals, my mind is blank.

[Eleaneth]

It'll be interesting to see what he puts in the second Mistborn trilogy... For instance, what would a Lerasium hemalurgical spike do? Lerasium and Atium feruchemical abilities? And what would their many allomantic alloys do in the other two powers?There's still a lot to be explored with feruchemy, especially if he introduces feruchemical "Mistings".

Of course, Sazed might just not release any God metals to the population. They are a bit overpowered... And hemalurgy seems much to morbid for Sazed to encourage it, except maybe in ridiculously rare circumstances.

[Cosmic_AC]

Feruchemy
Aluminum	Stores anything, but cannot be tapped.  Basically, you can tap a metal and "store" the extra power in Aluminum (so you're normal), but the metal remains unchanged and you can never get the stored attribute back.  It would only be useful for emptying Ironminds, IMO
Duralumin	Stores Feruchemical power - to "fill" a duralumin-mind, you must "tap" an attribute, such as weight, and you do not gain the benefit.  When a duralumin-mind is "tapped," it releases all the power of any other metalminds being tapped in a quick burst (e.g. duralumin + filled goldmind = instant full-health potion ).
Malatium	Stores insight (not mental speed - more like wisdom or foresight).  Sounds weird, and it's probably wrong, but it's a thought...
Electrum	Stores mental consciousness (fortitude, or whatever).
Chromium	Stores a portion of Feruchemical power, allowing for finer control over how much of a particular attribute is being stored/tapped, but effectively wastes anything you store in it since it cannot be tapped (this is different from Aluminum; Aluminum sucks everything away, while Chromium can be "adjusted" to waste a portion of Feruchemical power).
Nicrosil	Stores Feruchemical speed.  To fill a nicrosilmind, the Feruchemist must tap one of his other metalminds.  The metalmind will release its power more slowly than usual, and proportionally fill the nicrosilmind.  When the nicrosil is tapped, the Feruchemist can draw on a metalmind's power more quickly than he would normally be able to (correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was an upper limit to how much Strength Sazed could tap at once; if this is the case, Nicrosil could push that limit upwards...).
Lerasium	Permanently grants any normal Feruchemist the power of the first Feruchemists when tapped (or, for that matter, anyone who tries to "tap" it, but non-Feruchemists wouldn't know how).
Cadmium	Stores position in time.  Storing this "attribute" makes the Feruchemist travel backwards in time, and tapping it makes the Feruchemist move forward through time more quickly (when drained, it would theoretically move the Feruchemist back where he started, plus the length of time he spent in the past).  Travelling to the future is impossible.  (Converse is also possible - perhaps you can only go to the future.)
Not-Cerrobend	Stores time dilation.  Storing this attribute makes time seem to pass more slowly from the Feruchemist's perspective, but relative to everything else the Feruchemist ages more quickly.  Tapping this attribute allows the Feruchemist to move more quickly through time (relative to everything else, so he appears to move more slowly from another perspective), but appears to age less quickly.

All I can think of for Hemalurgy is that Lerasium would be an "all-purpose" spike, stealing all of a Feruchemist/Allomancer/Hemalurgist's acquired powers.  So while a Tin Spike can only steal one physical power at a time, even if you kill a Mistborn with it, a Lerasium spike would grant the Hemalurgist Mistborn powers.

[douglas]

All I can think of for Hemalurgy is that Lerasium would be an "all-purpose" spike, stealing all of a Feruchemist/Allomancer/Hemalurgist's acquired powers.  So while a Tin Spike can only steal one physical power at a time, even if you kill a Mistborn with it, a Lerasium spike would grant the Hemalurgist Mistborn powers.

That seems kind of pointless given that you could just swallow and burn the Lerasium instead, gaining Mistborn powers probably quite a bit greater than those of whoever you would have killed to steal from, and without any of the drawbacks of a spike.

Then again, that itself could be the point - that Preservation's power is virtually useless for Ruin's Art.

[Cosmic_AC]

All I can think of for Hemalurgy is that Lerasium would be an "all-purpose" spike, stealing all of a Feruchemist/Allomancer/Hemalurgist's acquired powers.  So while a Tin Spike can only steal one physical power at a time, even if you kill a Mistborn with it, a Lerasium spike would grant the Hemalurgist Mistborn powers.

That seems kind of pointless given that you could just swallow and burn the Lerasium instead, gaining Mistborn powers probably quite a bit greater than those of whoever you would have killed to steal from, and without any of the drawbacks of a spike.

Then again, that itself could be the point - that Preservation's power is virtually useless for Ruin's Art.

Not necessarily; if you hit a Feruchemist with a Lerasium spike you could become a Feruchemist yourself - seems like that'd be kind of a big deal.  I dunno.

[Wielder]

Nicrosil

Stores Feruchemical speed.  To fill a nicrosilmind, the Feruchemist must tap one of his other metalminds.  The metalmind will release its power more slowly than usual, and proportionally fill the nicrosilmind.  When the nicrosil is tapped, the Feruchemist can draw on a metalmind's power more quickly than he would normally be able to (correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was an upper limit to how much Strength Sazed could tap at once; if this is the case, Nicrosil could push that limit upwards...).

I like what you have done with this.  Interesting ideas.

As for the bolded, that, unfortunately, is incorrect.  I think it was in the end of WoA, someone was talking about Sazed regarding how large he grew when tapping strength, unlike a Mistborn, who stays the same general size.  I believe it was stated that as long as Sazed had the strength stored up, there was no limit to the amount of strength he could drain.  It seemed to be the same thing with everything else as well (like weight...he can become as heavy as he wants, as long as he has enough stored.

[Cosmic_AC]

I like what you have done with this.  Interesting ideas.

As for the bolded, that, unfortunately, is incorrect.  I think it was in the end of WoA, someone was talking about Sazed regarding how large he grew when tapping strength, unlike a Mistborn, who stays the same general size.  I believe it was stated that as long as Sazed had the strength stored up, there was no limit to the amount of strength he could drain.  It seemed to be the same thing with everything else as well (like weight...he can become as heavy as he wants, as long as he has enough stored.

Perhaps it could affect Feruchemical storage, then.  That is, if you "fill" the Nicrosil while filling another metalmind, you don't store as much of an attribute as you lose.  But if you then tap Nicrosil while storing something else, you store more than you would have lost.  This comes close to breaking the "rules" (because it means you can store weight and get strength, basically), but I don't really see any other "enhancement"-type function available that isn't even weirder.

A thought on Atium hemalurgy: As pirsquared suggested, a spike that steals "life" seems appropriate.  However, all spikes steal "life" in a sense: the victim must die for the hemalurgy to work, and if the spikes are put into a certain type of creature (or corpse), they grant sentience.  But perhaps an atium spike could steal either Health or Youth (most logical, of course, would be for atium to "grant hemalurgy" the way lerasium grants allomancy, but everyone can already use hemalurgy, so there'd be no point).  The reason the Lord Ruler didn't do this could be that he didn't want to spike himself much more than he needed to, to prevent Ruin from taking over completely (although Ruin seemed to have a lot of control anyway) and that it would look too suspicious (and decidedly un-divine) if he had to kill a small child every 75 years or so to stay young.  Much better to do the feruchemy/allomancy trick, so people don't start catching on.

[Reaves]

A thought on Atium hemalurgy: As pirsquared suggested, a spike that steals "life" seems appropriate.  However, all spikes steal "life" in a sense: the victim must die for the hemalurgy to work, and if the spikes are put into a certain type of creature (or corpse), they grant sentience. 

-     

I don't know if this is quite what you mean, but from what you are saying here the koloss sound very similar. A normal person is impaled with a spike, and Brandon actually says that it steals their soul. 

reason for edit: my post was in quotes.

[Cosmic_AC]

Yeah, that's what I mean - any type of spike can, apparently, steal life-force from a victim and transfer it to a corpse (making Koloss) or a mistwraith (making Kandra).  It's possible that other sentient beings can also be created in this manner.  What would happen, for instance, if you put a Hemalurgic charge on a spike and impaled a horse with it?  Would he turn into Mr. Ed?

[Reaves]

Ahh. Well the Lord Ruler was experimenting for nearly a millenia trying to create new hemalurgical beings with no success beyond the Inquisitors, koloss, and kandra, the latter of which he created when he held the power at the Well of Ascension. I would imagine that each animal would have its own bind points, so you could not just put an Inquisitor's spikes into a horse.

[Patriotic Kaz]

Actually when human is about to make another Koloss he planned on using an injured man not a corpse... Resurrection isn't possible even as something new via hermalurgy...it steals it doesn't create...(kandra blessings are the theft of sentience)

[pirsquared]

Concerning the God Metals:
Since Lerasium is the body of Preservation, it grants Preservation's power (Allomancy) when burned.  But Atium can't grant Ruin's power (Hemalurgy) because Hemalurgy is already available to everyone.  Or you can think about it differently and say that Lerasium grants powers and Atium steals powers (because obviously Atium needs to cause an overall loss of power).

All I can think of for Hemalurgy is that Lerasium would be an "all-purpose" spike, stealing all of a Feruchemist/Allomancer/Hemalurgist's acquired powers.  So while a Tin Spike can only steal one physical power at a time, even if you kill a Mistborn with it, a Lerasium spike would grant the Hemalurgist Mistborn powers.

Maybe Atium could do this same thing.  It would be very powerful, because it would steal everything - not just Allomancy and Feruchemy.  It would essentially give all of the Kandra blessings at once, as well as all Feruchemical and Allomantic powers the person had.  It would be all of the spikes at once.

Since every human being was made from a part of Leras's body, maybe a Lerasium spike would steal the Preservation in a person (basically their soul).  Then again, that probably happens anyway, if you look at what the Kandra blessings do to a Mistwraith.  Maybe that's why "the Kandra were of Preservation all along".

[echigo109]

Ahh. Well the Lord Ruler was experimenting for nearly a millenia trying to create new hemalurgical beings with no success beyond the Inquisitors, koloss, and kandra, the latter of which he created when he held the power at the Well of Ascension. I would imagine that each animal would have its own bind points, so you could not just put an Inquisitor's spikes into a horse.

thats a good idea i think that an animal givan a hemalurgical spike would get two things 1) sentience, they would be intleigent. and 2) they would get a "blessing" of the metal there givin, ( i.e. strength,speed,weight, ext.)