Author Topic: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5  (Read 4247 times)

Frog

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Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« on: March 02, 2009, 05:50:17 AM »
Thanks for taking a look you guys. I see action sequences as a real weakness of mine, so any suggestions you have there would be greatly appreciated. Rip it up and I promise you’ll see some humans whenever I submit next. :D.
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Hamster

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 12:54:53 AM »
Hey Frog, would it be possible if you can email your previous chapters to me? If the story is really far ahead then I like to have read the previous chapters to give me a feel of your story, world and style beyond the summary. It would be great if you do. :D  sad if you won't  :'(
Please don't make me sad.

thanks in advance, I'm looking forward to reading your stuff ( and to ripping it up!)!

Mathom

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 02:52:07 AM »
Thoughts While Reading:
---(These come from reading the outline.)  I like the names you use except two.  Drow are dark elves from Dungeons & Dragons and you will be hard pressed to overcome several decades of immediate association.  Elba is an island off the coast of France where Napoleon was exiled, the first time.  If you are going to use actual names of things in the real world, they need to be more obscure than this.
"the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"
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Frog

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 03:04:40 AM »
@ham: It's on its way. You can stop crying now! ;D
@Math: They are not just in D&D. Drow are dark fairies in a lot of mythology and to be quite honest, I want the association. Keeps things a bit simpler since it is a name I drop right up front. Like I said, not really trying to be earth shattering with this book. Thanks though. :)
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Mathom

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 04:35:33 AM »
More Thoughts While Reading:
---"Drynn's eyes never left where the cat had been  and saw it flicker out existence." 
          I think you mean "out of existence."

---"Cindle jerked back without flinching." 
          What does this mean?  The cat is at her back, so she is jerking toward the cat?

---"It did little to dislodge the cat . . ." 
          Dislodge the cat from where?  The cat is standing on the ground swiping at Cindle.

---". . . all she met was empty air. . . . She clutched it with both hands and looked around wildly. . ." 
          When did the cat disappear?  Drynn's attack doesn't make the cat budge, but it is gone when Cindle takes a swing at it?

---"Drynn looked up wildly. . . . The cat jerked back and the branch broke." 
          It is a little unclear what is happening in this paragraph, and clarity is fairly important because this is where Tayvin enters the scene.

---That cat was fun!

---"At home he was often the one people spoke over, now he was being spoke to over someone else." 
          What does this mean? (And you need to use a period or maybe semicolon, not a comma to separate these sentences.)

---"Well, anyway, after I got the dwarves back, I couldn't . . ." 
          Back from where? To where?  The dwarves were returned to Tayvin?  This phrase is a little unclear.

---"They never did because it was so easy to hunt or forge as they . . ." 
          I think you mean forage. Not forge.

---". . . 'for humans anyway,' she said them . . ." 
          She said to them.

---Fun chapter.  On to chapter 7!  You say this is YA, but the tone so far suggests a bit younger.  Middle-grade maybe?  Closer to Fablehaven or something similar.

---"Let go! Let go I'm not tried!" 
          You mean tired and I think you need a period between "go" and "I'm."

---". . . right in the middle of the forest Elba." 
          'Elba Forest' sounds better.

---". . . Drynn would have smiled of he had any means to . . ." 
          You mean 'smiled if he had any means to'.

---"They all came out into the Elban Forest . . ." 
          Elban?

---Clever!  Now I understand why you use the name Elba.

---"You're skipping ahead. Your bother was born first." 
          While brothers may be bothers, I think you mean the former not the latter.  ;D

---". . . whirled around wildly; trying to orientate himself." 
          The semicolon is weird here.  A comma is better.

---Titiania is a strange name.  I don't know if you mean Titania.  Your story seems to want to be read aloud and no middle schooler will keep a strait face when they hear a city named Titi.

---"It was easier now . . . barren land." 
          I'm not sure what you are trying to say in this sentence.

---"And you, I thought . . . giving it to him." 
          I don't think commas are the correct punctuation in this section.  i think maybe you want to suggest that all her words come in a rush together, but the commas are weird.

---". . . knew when she stopped; he would be forced . . ." 
          Here you should have used a comma instead of a semicolon.

---"He is so . . . i do not know, different yet not at the same time." 
          Not different at the same time as what?

---" . . .skin that tanned in the sun." 
          Are they watching him get more brown?  How do they know his skin tans?  I guess maybe Drynn got it from his books.

---" a typical shepherd" 
          Typical to whom?  The elves sure think he's strange.

---". . . it was dark and the sheep heard . . ." 
          Herd, not heard.

---Wow! That was a fun read!

General thoughts:
---This is a fun and exciting story.  I think the age will be younger than YA, but not by much.

---The cat battle was well written and well choreographed.  Any oddities I mentioned in the above post.

---The dream sequence was very clear and left us with a tantalizing mystery.

---The use of commas and semicolons came off strangely in various parts.  I'm not sure what you were trying to do with them, but it was jarring as I read.

---Be careful about the use of 'Elba' and 'Elban.'  It might confuse the reader.

---If the "while reading" section seems nit-picky, it is because I found your story so enjoyable that I had little to say regarding any major flaws.  I didn't really find major flaws.  Only the minor ones mentioned above.

---I really liked this story!  ;D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 05:53:07 AM by Mathom »
"the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"
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Frog

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 05:53:21 AM »
Wow Mathom! Thank you so much for all the specifics, it will be very helpful!
I am really glad you like it. As far as age group.... :-\ I just don't know. I don't have a problem with it being middle grade (and I loved Fablehaven), it just is long (working on cutting it down, but it's hard!), it has a couple POVs and there are a few things that happen at the end that might make it a bit more complicated than what I would typically call middle grade. Maybe I'll just let my agent/editor fight it out... in my fantasy land where I actually have one.   :D
Whatever it is, it amuses me so thanks again for all the help!
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Mathom

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 05:58:17 AM »
Let your agent figure it out!

Could you send me the back chapters, please?  :D
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 05:59:55 AM by Mathom »
"the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"
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Hamster

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 11:36:13 PM »
Well, I finally have time to actually review this.

By the way Frog, I loved your previous submissions, they flowed really well, and I found myself reading them for longer than I had planned to until I could finish all of them. Great work!

About the target audience, I agree with Mathom, around middle school, maybe a little bit older, but the style feels and reads younger than YA(please don't take this the wrong way or anything.)

Well, I see that Mathom got here before me and has already ripped up everything already. :'( Oh well, I'll find something for you to fix Frog  ;)

Submission 5 was pretty well written I think. You're far too hard on yourself about action sequences, I think that it worked out great, it flowed well and was realistic enough for me to believe it. The one problem was when the panther attacked Drynn the second time, but couldn't hurt him because of ONE  stuck paw was a little unrealistic. I couldn't buy that while attacking, the panther would not bite or scratch with the other paw, and would take a break to free one paw. I think it would still go after him.
Quote
“What? Tayvin shot you?” she said looking around for the other elf furiously.

I loved that. You always have great misinterpretations between characters that result in great lines. Overall,(not to be mean) I think that your dialogue is fairly average, but you keep on getting great, funny lines that are awesome to read. Kudos for that.

Quote
senseless teleporting panther.

What exactly do you mean by senseless? Do you mean not having any sense, as in unintelligent, (because that wouldn't make sense because it seemed to have a good strategy going with teleporting behind them, and then retreating when it was beaten by Cindle but coming back.) or could it not sense things, or what? It confused me alittle bit.

Okay, I was just about to rag on you for having a 1500 word and 4 page dream sequence, because it seems to drag on a little bit,(don't get me wrong, I like world building, and the mystery that you give here) but I will decide to let it slide because I just realized that I have a dream sequence twice as long in my next submission. ::) Ahem, moving on.

Two last things to mention.

I think that Tayvin is little bit too good at everything right now. I like how it contrasts with Drynn, and gives him internal conflict about trying to live up to his brother and stuff, but I would like to see more flaws with Tayvin.

2nd thing, I didn't really enjoy how the last chapter ended, with the dueling practice, because it reminded me alot of Eragon, (take that as a good or a bad thing, I don't know) so I'm just a little sick of people learning sword fighting while traveling and stuff. It seems overdone.

Anyways, sorry I didn't have much to say. Very enjoyable and light reading, I'm really looking forward to the rest of your submissions. Keep it up Frog!  :)

Reaves

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 01:30:05 AM »
Opening Comments: I've said this before and I'll say it again: characters are your strength. Build complex, unique personalities and just let them loose at each other. See what they do. Watch how they react. I feel like although there was a lot of dialogue in this chapter most of it was pretty flat.

The teleporting panther was pretty bizarre. Now that they are out of the forest, how are you going to tie up that little plot line? I don't think your audience will be satisfied if you just continue on. "Oh, the panter was magicked, just ignore it and keep on reading."

Quote
The cat larger than any panther Drynn had ever heard of and it leapt towards him with outstretched claws.
I think you need a "was" in there somewhere :P
Quote
The cat landed and Drynn winced when he heard the reed snap.
They use reeds for bowstaves? Is that possible? You hear about 50-100 pound bows being used in the Middle Ages (meaning the amount of strength needed to use it) and I don't know if a reed can stand up to that kind of pressure. Also consider: you may have researched this and know your business, but I think this is something you will need to explain to your audience.

By the way, the fight wasn't brilliant but it was clear and easily understandable. Nice job! You didn't try to overdo it with clunky prose or verbose descriptions.

Quote
As he stared into it, he chanced upon a random memory: an elder telling stories about the creatures of the forest to those still young enough to believe his blatant exaggerations. ‘The panthers,’ he said, ‘could disappear into the forest’s shadows to stalk its pray and it was so big that once it took a bite out of something, it was dead.’
Oh, cool. The Opal can store memories? Nice touch. However, is this the first time you introduced this? I apologize if you did introduce it earlier, I have a horrible memory :P If, however, you didn't, you probably should mention the Opal can do this earlier.

Quote
Drynn reached out but was unable to find even a rock to use against the beast. Its claws bit into Drynn’s side and the weight made it difficult to breathe.
He stopped struggling.
While I liked the use of the indent, I'm not really sure why he would stop struggling.

Quote
“Falberain,” the girl answered promptly and Drynn interest was finally peaked.
I think you mean piqued :D

Quote
“Well think of Tyla’s baby. She sticks just about anything in her mouth. The former fairies were the same.
lololol

Quote
. The human was tall, just as the books said, with weird dark hair and skin that tanned in the sun.
Elves are all blond? Cool. Is this something I missed or something you should mention sooner?

Closing comments: See opening comments. I really don't have a whole lot more to add :D

Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Frog

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 03:57:37 AM »
First off, you guys rock!
More specifically...
About the target audience, I agree with Mathom, around middle school, maybe a little bit older, but the style feels and reads younger than YA(please don't take this the wrong way or anything.)
Wait... why should that offend me? I really don't care who reads it. I'm just hoping someone will someday. YA/middle grade... w/e people end up telling me will be fine and I will smile and nod.

Submission 5 was pretty well written I think. You're far too hard on yourself about action sequences, I think that it worked out great, it flowed well and was realistic enough for me to believe it. 
I don't like action sequences simply because I spend so much time staring at screen going 'why me?' before I can actually write them, so moving on....

The one problem was when the panther attacked Drynn the second time, but couldn't hurt him because of ONE  stuck paw was a little unrealistic. I couldn't buy that while attacking, the panther would not bite or scratch with the other paw, and would take a break to free one paw. I think it would still go after him.
Yeah that was pretty stupid wasn't it... maybe even senseless? J/K. Yeah. The panther shows itself to be pretty stupid in a couple of instances which I used to have Drynn point out in a very long batch of internal thought. Tried to cut it down, but obviously not as seamlessly as I hoped.  :P

Okay, I was just about to rag on you for having a 1500 word and 4 page dream sequence, because it seems to drag on a little bit,(don't get me wrong, I like world building, and the mystery that you give here) but I will decide to let it slide because I just realized that I have a dream sequence twice as long in my next submission. ::) Ahem, moving on.
So that means I get to rag on you next week? J/K. I'll see if I can cut it down.

2nd thing, I didn't really enjoy how the last chapter ended, with the dueling practice, because it reminded me alot of Eragon, (take that as a good or a bad thing, I don't know) so I'm just a little sick of people learning sword fighting while traveling and stuff. It seems overdone.
You could be right. Reading Eragon was all a bit of a blur for me.... I'll just promise you that it is never really on screen. It's more of a symbol than anything else.

I think that Tayvin is little bit too good at everything right now. I like how it contrasts with Drynn, and gives him internal conflict about trying to live up to his brother and stuff, but I would like to see more flaws with Tayvin.
When Drynn's the narrator, you're not going to get a lot of Tayvin's flaws. When other people narrate....

Opening Comments: I've said this before and I'll say it again: characters are your strength. Build complex, unique personalities and just let them loose at each other. I feel like although there was a lot of dialogue in this chapter most of it was pretty flat.
Yeah... that's basically all I do. Thanks for summing up my book so easily... and telling me I did it poorly. Darn it...

The teleporting panther was pretty bizarre. Now that they are out of the forest, how are you going to tie up that little plot line? I don't think your audience will be satisfied if you just continue on. "Oh, the panter was magicked, just ignore it and keep on reading."
I'll get to it. Eventually....

Quote
The cat landed and Drynn winced when he heard the reed snap.
They use reeds for bowstaves? Is that possible? You hear about 50-100 pound bows being used in the Middle Ages (meaning the amount of strength needed to use it) and I don't know if a reed can stand up to that kind of pressure. Also consider: you may have researched this and know your business, but I think this is something you will need to explain to your audience.
Elves are VERY light weight. They will not be carrying around 50-100lb bows. What they use and how they use it is something I have gone back and forth on and will probably continue to do so for sometime. If anyone knows a good source on these type of things please let me know, because I think I officially exhausted the obvious ones.... :(

Quote
Drynn reached out but was unable to find even a rock to use against the beast. Its claws bit into Drynn’s side and the weight made it difficult to breathe.
He stopped struggling.
While I liked the use of the indent, I'm not really sure why he would stop struggling.
Because he was being suffocated by a huge panther. I'll see if I can bring that out more....

Quote
As he stared into it, he chanced upon a random memory: an elder telling stories about the creatures of the forest to those still young enough to believe his blatant exaggerations. ‘The panthers,’ he said, ‘could disappear into the forest’s shadows to stalk its pray and it was so big that once it took a bite out of something, it was dead.’
Oh, cool. The Opal can store memories? Nice touch. However, is this the first time you introduced this? I apologize if you did introduce it earlier, I have a horrible memory :P If, however, you didn't, you probably should mention the Opal can do this earlier.
All Drynn knows about the Opal, he told you after the dream. Anything else you will just have to learn with him. :)

Quote
The human was tall, just as the books said, with weird dark hair and skin that tanned in the sun.
Elves are all blond? Cool. Is this something I missed or something you should mention sooner?
Elves have red to light brown hair. No blond, black or darker browns. I say something to that effect in the first chp when I first discribe Tayvin and Drynn and it shall come up again... and again if necessary.

Anyway, I think those are most of the major things. Thanks for reading and getting the funnies. If all people can say is that they enjoyed the experience, than I will consider my book a success.  :)
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Necroben

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 04:44:33 AM »
Sorry I'm late to the party. ;D

The cat larger than any panther Drynn had ever heard of…

…heard the reed snap.

…and passed through the air without hitting anything.

If it passed through the air, doesn’t that imply it didn’t hit anything?  Normally it probably wouldn’t be a problem, but with an action sequence, you might want to choose some of your words sparingly.  Short, sweet, and to the point helps keep the pace up without being confusing.

…from a completely different direction.

What direction?  Where did it come from?

Before he could make Cindle understand it leaped at her shoulders.  Cindle jerked back without flinching.

I could be misremembering, but isn’t Cindle the only female there.  If so, you probably don’t need to name her every time.  I think I see why, but she and her could probably be used a little more in this sequence.

…only his own weight as a weapon.

If he had a bow, doesn’t he have arrows?  It might be in character for Drynn to be impulsive in battle.  But what I remember from your opening scene with him, he wasn’t impulsive.

…and Drynn fell backed down dazed…

I think you meant back, but you could eliminate it entirely for a stronger image.

…she twisted her neck around to inspect the damage the cat caused when it racked her back.

Does she have a different range of motion that allows her to see that much of her back?

“Not for a ways off, but here.”

This sounds like the stream is right there.  Maybe break up the dialogue with the action/body language.

…he chanced upon a random memory…

Yeah I agree, this sounds cool, but I think this is something that should have been mentioned before.

There was no warning this time.

Show, don’t tell.  You could probably cut this sentence out.

It looked around stupidly for the source of the noise as the archer stuck with another arrow before scrambling to another branch.
 
Who went to another branch?

Cindle emptied her hands and rolled Drynn over to inspect the damage…

Wasn’t he already on his stomach?  Did she roll him onto his back?

…Drynn felt some power behind his words.

This is kinda confusing.  Can Drynn feel and or interact with the environment and just has no control over the body, or is he just a witness to events?

…would have smiled of he had any means to do so.

If?

…and he lectured himself silently…

Lectured just seems like a weak word here.  Maybe berate, rebuke, scold, or cursed himself.

…already full of food and other odds and ends that Cindle suggested they bring…

Did the elves bring money to buy goods?  Would their money even be compatible with the money of humans?  A people they have no contact with.  Here would have been a great scene to introduce us to this new race.

…Cindle was given the last one.

Who gave it to her and why?

…block the night sky and the only advantage…

You may want to reconsider using and.  I’ve noticed that it’s been used quite a bit through out your story to connect complex sentences.  Think about varying your use a bit.

…and the sheep heard…

Herd or flock maybe?  Unless you’re trying to describe how they hear.  Lol, I do the same thing with strait and straight.

I’m sorry if I said the same as some of the others, but I didn’t have time to read through all the other posts.  The fight scene was ok, but I think it could be improved upon.  Same with dialogue.  I really enjoyed your story despite what I might have said above.  Your world is taking shape beautifully and the pov of the elves regarding humans paint an intriguing picture.  Great work and as always, I look forward to your next submission.
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Frog

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 05:04:01 AM »
Sorry I'm late to the party. ;D
Hey, the party doesn't officially start until you get there, so it is all good. Thanks for all the specifics. It is all greatly appreciated. :D
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Necroben

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 05:44:41 AM »
Quote
Elves are VERY light weight. They will not be carrying around 50-100lb bows. What they use and how they use it is something I have gone back and forth on and will probably continue to do so for sometime. If anyone knows a good source on these type of things please let me know, because I think I officially exhausted the obvious ones....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_(weapon)

You might want to be carefull though.  If elves are light weight and their muscle mass this therefor lower, then their bows will lack power.  Long shots will be difficult and their penetrating power will be almost none existante.  So no metal armor or trick shots from far off.

Idea though:  If their physiology gives them longer bones then they will still have muscle to use a stronger bow.  Monkeys and other apes have longer, well, long bones.  This allows for more muscle, making them stronger.  Much stronger than humans pound for pound.
I don't suffer from insanity...  I enjoy every minuet of it!

It's ok to be strange, as long as it's on paper. :)

Reaves

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 01:34:10 AM »
Quote
Drynn reached out but was unable to find even a rock to use against the beast. Its claws bit into Drynn’s side and the weight made it difficult to breathe.
He stopped struggling.
While I liked the use of the indent, I'm not really sure why he would stop struggling.
Because he was being suffocated by a huge panther. I'll see if I can bring that out more....
I guess I mean, personally if I was in his position, I like to think I would keep on fighting. I just find it easier to respect a character that will fight to his last breath and not give up when things get rough. However, its not a major sticking point and I could easily forget it if I was reading your book as a printed novel.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Frog

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Re: Mar 2 - Queen'sOpal - Part 5
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2009, 02:26:33 AM »
@Ben: thanks for the info. I will keep it in mind. (Especially about those monkeys; that's pretty cool).  So no armor. Check. In fact I think this is the last time either of them actually uses a bow... in this book anyway, but they still carry them around quite a bit (must keep with the stereotype after all...)
@Reaves: I see what you mean. I guess what I was trying and failing to get out was that he was losing oxygen to the point where struggling would be harder, whether he wanted to or not. But I think I found a way to fix it. At least I hope so.
Thanks guys!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 02:08:58 PM by Frog »
I've already conquered the world. This is exactly the way I want it.