02-09-09, Revast: The Wells of Creation - Prologue

[Revast]

Ok, first submission by yours truly.

Working Title of the Novel is The Wells of Creation. Looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks.

Revast

[Necroben]

Wow, that was awesome!

I really didn’t notice anything… wrong.  But...
From my point of view though, the death of any character must have… an almost sublime importance.  The problem with me is that when I read, I immerse myself into the story.  I am your main character.  If I can relate in some small way, then I’m right there, seeing through their eyes or standing right next to them.  If it gets your point across, then great, kill’em, I’m all for it.  But if like, GRRM, and characters die left, right, and center, then that’s almost a betrayal of trust.  (I don’t buy his books any more.)  Now, I want to be entertained, heck, I love escapism, but if I invest a lot of time reading about a character and then they die, (to me) unnecessarily, then I can’t trust the story anymore.  Not to say that you’ll do this, but that’s my own two cents.

Sorry, that took a lot just to say:  That while I’m fine with all the graphic details, your start makes me hesitant to really get into the story.  Now, I know that there are tons of people who love reading about all these characters dieing and the gritty feel it lends.  And if that’s what you’re going for though, you did a superb job of it.

[Hamster]

Hey, first off, welcome and congrats on your first submission!

It was an interesting beginning to your novel. At first I was a little bored, because the first 4 pages or so was just describing Brauv waiting for a message, but the prose itself was pretty good, a little raw, but good. I am really glad that Brauv is not a main character though, because I didn't like his character at all, and for the first 6 pages I thought, 'man, I have to follow this guy around for a whole book?' So kudos to you for killing him off!

Though I was vaguely interested in why they were fighting, why they were in the south and such, I thought a little bit more background would be welcome, it didn't spark enough interest in me. I also felt that it seemed similar to Steven Erikson's first novel, ' Gardens of the Moon', not very much info at all at first, with lots hinted at, starting in the middle of a campaign.  But no offence, you aren't quite as good at it as he is. So good characterization( although I didn't like the character, I thought you crafted him very well) but a little more worldbuilding would be nice.

I am intrigued by the magi-blood connection to the magic, although I have to be honest, I do not like the word magi being used in fantasy, same as wizards and such, seems overused, but yours seems to be fairly interesting, looking forward to finding out more!

Overall, great writing, great insight into a character's mind and emotions, and great descriptions of your setting, but it just didn't really catch me up in it, seems more like a prologue than chapter 1, but the writing itself is superb and so was the last 2 pages, that part really caught me. Look forward to more, like necroben said, very gritty.

[Revast]

seems more like a prologue than chapter 1,

It is a prologue... lol

Also, I don't plan on killing off my characters with gusto. This is one of the things I was worried about with submitting the prologue by itself (but to due word count I couldn't send chapter 1). What you are getting is actually an event that occurs after the end of book. It makes more sense when you get the first chapter, and I believe provides and interesting thought process to the reader since they know Brauv's end, quite dramatically, but little else. I am still unsure as to whether it will work when the entire story is told. I don't know that I've read many novels that give away portions of the ending (even if they are incredibly vague) at the beginning.

Also Brauv is a mainstay throughout much of the story to come, though he will never again be a main viewpoint character. I don't want the reader to get to attached to a character they know is going to die. Whether or not this whole idea works, well hopefully you all can help me with that.

I am intrigued by the magi-blood connection to the magic

Central plot theme, more detail to follow I promise. Glad it came across and hopefully grabbed you.

As far as using the term Magi. hmm I never really thought of it. I suppose I could try to call them something else. I'll think on it. Might give the story more flavor.

Thanks for your thoughts so far, keep em coming

[Hamster]

lol.. it is a prologue, oops,  sorry about that. I like the idea of a prologue that happens after the book, I'm guessing the book has to do with the boy running through the mountains,or whatever the last sentence of the prologue was about. Cool idea!

[Reaves]

Okay, well thanks for sharing your manuscript with us! I look forward to seeing more of it. Your prose is smooth and clean and it flows nicely.

First of all, I do not want to know about anyone shifting his manhood as sweat trickles between his thighs. Please 

So far I am not really following what is happening. I don't have a vested interest in the characters.

You might want to consider shortening the Bruav section of the chapter if he is just going to die.

So I guess Lightfoot is a camp follower? Or maybe not. I'm interested in his story.

Overall I thought it was pretty good, aside from the references to sweaty prostates  Good descriptions and good characterization. Thats a cool idea, making the prologue part of your book's ending.

[jwdenzel]

Hi Revast,

Thanks for submitting the beginning of your novel.  I can tell that you're a confident writer, and I can appreciate your gritty prose.  You did a great job of setting the tone, and setting up your anti-hero.   Killing him was a surprise, and that was certainly the highlight  of the chapter.

Consider doing a grammar / ease-of-reading pass on your writing though.  You were missing some commas, and some of your sentences felt  overly dense. I'm all for descriptive prose, but I choked more than once on some sentences and had to go back to read it.

I agree with the others who said the first few pages didn't feel very engaging.  Sweaty balls aside (the first mention was fine. The second was too comical), there's a lot of sitting, talking, swearing, and internal thinking.... but not much else.  There were a lot of names and references to things we have no idea about yet.  I was a little frustrated by that and kept wondering why I was confused:  was I just dumb, or were things intentionally not being clear?

Maybe I personally tend to be hyper-sensitive to this, but I noticed that you mentioned a Creator, putting people "to the question", and a war that has gone on for Ages and Ages.   You're treading on commonly used Robert Jordan terms there.  Unless those terms are important to your world and story, just consider alternative terms.

You mentioned a Creator, and later Brauv mentions "gods".   That's fine. I just want to point it out in case your getting your pantheon mixed up.

I am always interested in a good magic system.  And I love mages / magi.  It appears as though your magic system links magic and blood.  My initial knee-jerk reaction to that is "Eh, okay, that's cool. But I feel like it's been done before."   Check out NAME OF THE WIND By Patrick Rothfuss.  While it's not specifically related to blood, the magic system in there frequently has characters draw their own blood in order to use their natural body heat to power spells.  Also, I can't think of a specific example, but somehow I get the impression that magic and blood being linked to one another is not something that's new to the genre. 

After the explosion, it felt a little unrealistic to have Brauv talking so much considering what he just went through.  The fact that he survived at all is tough to grasp (especially if the explosion fried people's eyebrows off a good distance away), but I understand that its good for the chapter to have him get a few more words in.  Consider sticking to a few words though.  He was pretty lucid and articulate for a mostly-disintegrated chunk of flesh.  ;-)

So despite my tough constructive criticism, I see some good potential here.  If this is, as you say, the end of the book, then that's pretty neat.  It's always a gamble to show how a main character dies before we know their full story, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.  I hope we see an interesting character arc for Brauv, rather than having him be a flat-asshole character the whole time.

I'm looking forward to chapter 1 and beyond.  Good work!

[Revast]

some of your sentences felt  overly dense. I'm all for descriptive prose, but I choked more than once on some sentences and had to go back to read it.

This is a definite reoccurring problem in my writing. Something I fall prey to often. I'll definitely go back and try to not choke anyone.

I agree with the others who said the first few pages didn't feel very engaging.  Sweaty balls aside (the first mention was fine. The second was too comical)

noted, less balls references lol

, there's a lot of sitting, talking, swearing, and internal thinking.... but not much else.  There were a lot of names and references to things we have no idea about yet.  I was a little frustrated by that and kept wondering why I was confused:  was I just dumb, or were things intentionally not being clear?

I'll try to see if I can make the beginning a bit more engaging, though Brauv's character is bored, and to much excitement might hurt that emotion. Maybe some less important parts just need to be eliminated.

Maybe I personally tend to be hyper-sensitive to this, but I noticed that you mentioned a Creator, putting people "to the question", and a war that has gone on for Ages and Ages.   You're treading on commonly used Robert Jordan terms there.  Unless those terms are important to your world and story, just consider alternative terms.

The Creator is central, I will try to change how I word putting people to the question (i.e. soldiers beating information out of them), and the war for ages and ages is going away. It sounded good when I was writing the prologue, but as I'm farther into the story now it just doesn't fit.

You mentioned a Creator, and later Brauv mentions "gods".   That's fine. I just want to point it out in case your getting your pantheon mixed up.

Brauv should definitely say "God" not Gods, that was just a screw up on my part. Religion plays only a minor role in the story, but the idea of a Creator is central, though worshiping him is not if that makes sense.

I am always interested in a good magic system.  And I love mages / magi.  It appears as though your magic system links magic and blood.  My initial knee-jerk reaction to that is "Eh, okay, that's cool. But I feel like it's been done before."   Check out NAME OF THE WIND By Patrick Rothfuss.  While it's not specifically related to blood, the magic system in there frequently has characters draw their own blood in order to use their natural body heat to power spells.  Also, I can't think of a specific example, but somehow I get the impression that magic and blood being linked to one another is not something that's new to the genre. 

Man I read Name of the Wind (fantastic book) and I don't remember that, but then I tend to forget all but the most memorable elements of a story not long after I read it. Blood is central to the magic system, in fact it is the magic system in some ways. I don't want to reveal to much or some of the future chapters will be quite boring to read. But without blood, the magic system just doesn't work.

I don't know if it is a "new" idea or not, but it is not just something used "sometimes" for magic to happen. It is a requirement for it, along with one other thing, and at great cost. Please feel free to let me know though if you feel it is treading to closely to some already written work.

After the explosion, it felt a little unrealistic to have Brauv talking so much considering what he just went through.  The fact that he survived at all is tough to grasp (especially if the explosion fried people's eyebrows off a good distance away), but I understand that its good for the chapter to have him get a few more words in.  Consider sticking to a few words though.  He was pretty lucid and articulate for a mostly-disintegrated chunk of flesh.  ;-)

After a quick re-read you are so right. He says far to much for a man that by all rights should be dead.

So despite my tough constructive criticism, I see some good potential here.  If this is, as you say, the end of the book, then that's pretty neat.  It's always a gamble to show how a main character dies before we know their full story, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.  I hope we see an interesting character arc for Brauv, rather than having him be a flat-asshole character the whole time.

I'm looking forward to chapter 1 and beyond.  Good work!

Brauv = not an asshole.... most of the time.

And thank you very much for your opinions. I really appreciate it.

[jwdenzel]

I'll try to see if I can make the beginning a bit more engaging, though Brauv's character is bored, and to much excitement might hurt that emotion. Maybe some less important parts just need to be eliminated.

Why not give him something to do so he's not bored?   One of the "lessons" I learned (alas, the hard way) from filmmaking is that if your characters are bored, so is your audience.   My hunch is that the same thing might apply to novels as well.

Re: Bloody magic systems...  I stand by what I said, but don't take it too seriously. If you have a well-crafted magic system that's engaging, then run with it and make all those other authors feel like wannabes.    Rock it.  Can't wait to read about it.

[maxonennis]

I have to admit, I couldn't get past page three. But here's a critique for the first two and a half pages.

Opening with the weather is a literary no-no. (I know, Robert Jordan did in every one of his WoT books, but he had written and published a number of books before he ever started on tWoT.) If you want to talk about the weather, then it would be best to do so by action, not by internal dialogue. When a book starts with the weather I have to force myself to read on.

Take it from someone who knows through experience, you’re over using internal dialogue. Doing that deemphasizes external dialogue by making it repetitive. It also gives the author license to be too tongue and cheek, taking away from the rest of the story—which I see a little of already.

I’m not sure that it was necessary to talk about blackpaw aside from what he looked like.

I’m not a pet owner—I don’t even like dogs--, but from what I’ve seen of pet owners, they tend to talk down to their animals much like one would a baby. Using simple sentences and concepts rather than something as complex as what Brauv says to blackpaw.

[Miyabi]

For starters, when you are in narration you go from third to first person a lot, and not just within the internal dialogue.  The other parts are inconsistent in the tone they are written.

Visions of lounging in his personal pavilion, one of these exotic southern women fanning him, preferably naked, beckoned to him like the gentle bubbling of a cool northern spring.

In this section for instance, the 'preferably naked' part is jarring and makes the whole sentence, as well as the next less effective because I'm too busy wondering why the narrator wants to see a naked girl. 

Also, a lot of sentences are too wordy.

They’d seen Blackpaw in action, a constant at Brauv’s side wherever the fighting was thickest, teeth and claws moving seemingly in unison with muscle and blade of his master.

This one is like that.  Why only when the fighting is thickest?  Or is Brauv only there when the fighting is thick?  The teeth and claws part could be a different sentence as well.  The two being in unison is also a bit unbelievable and causes confusion.

Those types of things are the only problems I saw while reading.  All in all, it's  not my type of story, but it is well written.