Elantris vs. Mistborn *Spoilers*

[little wilson]

I agree with Sarah. Elantrians can definitely die. If Hrathen hadn't stepped in when he did, I think we would know that....

[Eleaneth]

I think that the Feruchemist and the Dakhor would be pretty evenly matched, but it depends entirely on how much the Feruchemist has stored up and how strong of a monk the Dakhor is. Sazed with a ton of stored-up strength, health, and speed would be pretty even with Dilaf, I think.

Elantrians have the most versatile power by far. They can do almost anything... However, it does take a few moments. I think the Mistborn would win, since they could dodge almost anything, practically fly, and attack extremely quickly. However, we don't really know the extent of the Elantrians' abilities. We only glimpsed their abilities at the end of Elantris. Maybe Elantrians can fly, dodge, and have prepared AonDor that can be released suddenly in battle. Maybe they could develop swords that active an AonDor like their light plates glowed on touch.

Of course, if the Mistborn had much atium, then there would be no contest.

[Czanos]

I wrote a huge long post, but it got eaten, so here's the synopsis.

Allomancer / Feruchemist Strengths:

 - Ability, through Atium or Not-Cerrobend, to know what attacks are coming their way with ample reaction time.
 - Disruption of Aons via Steelpushing and Ironpulling, or perhaps even Duralumin Rioting or soothing in a pinch.
 - Learn an Aon after one drawing, via Copperminds.
 - Physical capabilities of an Elantrian are fairly easy to match.
 - Can freely move about large spaces, without worrying about weakening of strength.

Elantrian / Dakhor Strengths:

 - Unlimited Power source.
 - More versatile arsenal.
 - Close-range movement advantages with travel magic. Good for guerrilla style fighting.
 - Better healing capabilities.
 - Lasting "standalone" magics.

Crazy Random Metallic Arts Questions:

 - If an Allomancer/Feruchemist burns an enhancement metal, does the Feruchemical burst get amplified? Does Aluminum create a negative burst of Feruchemical energy? (I think this may have been answered somewhere, actually, but I couldn't find it.)
 - Does Aluminum/Chromium work on metals one cannot burn? Would that affect the Feruchemical properties of said metal?
 - Would Bronze reveal an Elantrian?
 - Does the Dakhor process fragment the host enough to be Hemalurgically controlled via Allomancy?
 - If an Iron(?) spike was Hemalurgically imbued from a Dakhor monk / Elantrian, would the spike endow human strength based on the person before they were changed, or after?

[Inquisitor]

What about ClayShin and Hemalurgy? Do they enter into this at all?

[Alatar]

Well, I think it all depends on a lot of factors.
For example, one Mistborn fighting 1 whatever else wins (assuming he/she has all metals on), just because of the fact that they can burst with duraluminium or flare their metals. One duraluminium/pewter burst and you can kill anyone with enough speed and precision and strength, even cutting Dakhor monks' bones.

On the other hand, Elantrians are better for armies. First line draws protective Aons, second line are healers, in case any of the first line are injured, and third line are the shooters, because they don't have to be in the first line to shoot fire or energy or rocks or whatever they want on their enemies.

Feruchemy and Dakhor wouldn't even enter the fight, because they are melee fighters (unless they went on tossing huge rocks on the enemy, but that would be countered easily by Elantrians).

[pirsquared]

In Arelon, there is no other rivaling magic, so an Elantrian's Aons are very powerful, despite the time it takes to draw them.  The magic is about how good you are at drawing and how much knowledge you have about Aons.
On Scadrial, Allomancy and Feruchemy are far more about speed.  A Mistborn is powerful if he/she learns to use his/her limited powers (limited number of metals) quickly and wisely.

Initially, my mind thinks that a Mistborn would definitely win, due to his/her speed advantage.  When I thought about it, however, I realized it's not that simple.  A truly skilled and knowledgeable Elantrian, given five or ten seconds to construct an Aon, could do basically anything, assuming he/she was able to stay out of the way for those five/ten seconds.  For example, he/she could probably direct a fireball at a person with a modifier so that it would follow the person like a guided missle.  He/she could teleport, which would allow him/her to sneak up on the Mistborn somewhat easily.  The list of Aons is not necessarily finite, and we definitely don't know all of the things one could do with them.  There are probably some ancient, dark, forbidden, very complex, lost-in-time aons that do things like control minds and cause automatic death.  It seems to me like, if the Elantrian knows the right Aon and is able to draw it in time, he/she basically automatically wins.
Just thinking about those 'old, dark, forbidden, very complex, lost-in-time aons' makes me want to see an Elantris sequel...

A couple more somewhat notable things:
Presumably, bronze could not be used to detect Elantrians, because the Dor is an entirely seperate magic system than Allomancy and Feruchemy.
An army of Elantrians would have a better chance, but not against an army of Mistborn (if the fight is fair, both sides' numbers will be equal).
Dakhor monks don't have much of an advantage, seeing a they're basically just thugs, but they COULD distract the Mistborn while the Elantrians draw Aons.

[Alatar]

A couple more somewhat notable things:
Presumably, bronze could not be used to detect Elantrians, because the Dor is an entirely seperate magic system than Allomancy and Feruchemy.
An army of Elantrians would have a better chance, but not against an army of Mistborn (if the fight is fair, both sides' numbers will be equal).
Dakhor monks don't have much of an advantage, seeing a they're basically just thugs, but they COULD distract the Mistborn while the Elantrians draw Aons.

Well, regarding that:
1.- I think bronze allows allomancers to detect the power of creation, be it channeled one way or another. She detects Ruin and the power at the WoA, and neither are Allomancy (this is arguable, though, in the case of Preservation, but in the case of Ruin is somewhat more clear).
Why hasn't she detected Feruchemist or Hemalurgist? Well, I'm not sure, but maybe she wasn't familiar with the pulses from them or she did could feel them but didn't know what they were.
So, they would detect active Dor in all its forms (active, not inactive as in Elantrians' bodies or Dakhor monks).

2.- It is clearly stated that some Elantrians are better at drawing Aons than others, and that almost all of them specialized in one or a few fields. So, I'm thinking Elantrians are more or less like Allomancers, only a few excel (= Mistborn) and most of them are good at channeling Dor for a few things (= Mistings).
We've seen few organised conflicts with Allomancers and Elantrians, but it seems that Elantrians would be much versatile and powerful (so you've got 20 Coinshots Pushing metals to us? Well, I've got 3 Elantrians expert in turning metal to bubbles, so...........).

As always, when you confront different styles, the one who gets the battle to develop so that it shows the best of his/her style wins. With plenty of time to prepare (and Dor to channel), Elantrians win. In fast close combat, Mistborn wins.
I have not a very clear idea of how would Awakening magic work in a fight. We've seen it, but it seems to take very difficult Commands and ridiculous amounts of Breaths to work, but that should go in another thread 

[Eleaneth]

Hmm... If Seekers and Mistborn could learn to detect any of the powers, then a really clever Mistborn could beat any of them, because he or she could use bronze to perceive any use of any power and get out of the way with a coinpush enhanced leap.

[Renoard]

I've not read these stories, but bronze is an alloy of silver, nickle, copper, tin and what ever else the founder puts in his secret recipe.  Seems like a system based on elemental properties found in metals would be thwarted by complicated alloys like bronze or stainless steel. . .

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Yes, only specific alloys (assumedly within a certain tolerance) will work for allomancers—alloys where the percentages are off will make them ill.

[Miyabi]

I've not read these stories, but bronze is an alloy of silver, nickle, copper, tin and what ever else the founder puts in his secret recipe.  Seems like a system based on elemental properties found in metals would be thwarted by complicated alloys like bronze or stainless steel. . .

Bronze doesn't have to be that complicated though.  Besides, Allomancers require exact ratios, as Ook stated.

It wouldn't be hard if everyone knew what to put in it.

[Patriotic Kaz]

We don't know if all the Aeon's are discovered yet and if Raoden had time to make a game plan I would put money on his strategic thinking above any mistborn he would match up against

[Shaggy]

Are we saying that in this (hypothetical) fight, all the Mistborn metals have been discovered? 'Cause if not, that could make a pretty big difference…

I think there are a lot of variables in this 'equation,' and maybe even too many to come up with an accurate answer. How many metals/attributes do the Mistborn/Feruchemists have stored up, is atium allowed…

[little wilson]

I would say Chromium and Nicrosil are in. Cadmium and not-Cerrobend aren't, though--mostly because there're still some 'technicality' questions about how they work, in particular not-Cerrobend. I would also say the God metals are out too.

As for how much metals the Mistborn has stored. I would think a couple vials. Feruchemists would have large stores of strength, speed, weight, and health.

As for skill level of each person.

Monk--not Dilaf. Someone more normal (for the monks....). Dilaf seemed to me to be an anomaly among the monks.
Elantrian--Raoden (or Raoden's skill level). He's new enough that it still takes him some time to draw, but not too much that he'd killed without a doubt in that space of time.

Mistborn--someone around Kelsier's skill level, but not necessarily with his skill with iron/steel.
Feruchemist--could be Sazed. His focus isn't in fighting, but he's shown himself to be a skilled fighter when the time calls for it.

[Patriotic Kaz]

Kel was one of the strongest mistborn even without the steel/iron he escaped inquisitors several times and even killed one... he wasn't as strong as the early mistborn nor did he have vin's skill but inquistors have about 1.5 times the power as a regular mistborn and he was skilled enough to kill one... he is definately in the top 5%