Author Topic: 1-26-09 Aspirations  (Read 6657 times)

Frog

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 02:21:21 AM »
Yeah now that you mention it, isn't the human heart only as big as your fist?  Er, your heart your fist, or something like that.  But you brought up a good point though.  I can see now where that could be confusing.
Yep, your heart is as big as your fist and your brain is as big as two fists together. At least that is what my nursing instructors said....

I don't think I've heard that about the heart before. But for the brain I usually use the good 'ole "big as your head" trick  :P

Actually, there is a lot more to your head then the brain... like the fluid it is suspended in and skulls tend to be pretty thick for some reason... and then I guess you could get into what parts you are actually defining as the brain but that is probably more anatomy than any0ne other than obsessive people in my area of study should have to know... but the point is, don't knock the fist trick! ;)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 02:30:40 AM by Frog »
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Reaves

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 04:20:49 AM »
I thought about mentioning some of that, then decided against it. Can't have facts getting in the way of a funny.
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deckacards

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 07:27:29 PM »
Okay...

First, I agree quite a bit with Reaves...especially when he said this: "I don't know if telly is the right word. Its like there is a glaze over the words removing us a bit from the story. Bring us closer in. Make us a part of the story.

Javik's death was devoid of any tension whatsoever."

alright, I'm going to be completely honest with you here...i hope you take it the right way...this chapter and how you depict Angel and Jason...makes you seem like you have a very low opinion of women. I'm sure that's not true...and I'm sure I seem that way in my own writing at times (because I just don't know what it's like to be a woman...), but Angel cries WAY too much, is MUCH too quick to do whatever Jason might want or will make him happy, and really has no redeemable qualities not attached to Jason. The part where Jason tries to redeem his opinion of her (saying she's different than he thought women were...) doesn't work at all. It's like trying to damm a mighty river with a single log.

It's okay to show Jason as having a low opinion of women, but through scenes and dialogue, you have to show the reader that there is a redeemable quality in your female characters - whether Jason sees it the same way or not.  And, honestly, just a note...if you DO give Jason a low opinion of women, it makes it difficult for the reader to identify with him - very problematic in first person.

Also, I don't know how "young" Angel is...but I would avoid calling her a "young girl" in the story...it makes the sexuality seem VERY inappropriate and awkward...

Okay...on to other stuff...

The heart eating thing...man, I don't see how that makes any sense whatsoever...clearly he is taken over by some other force (or, at least that better be revealed to be the case farely quickly...), but it just makes no sense and is disgusting. Of course, keep in mind that I haven't read anything but this chapter...

Don't use nearly as many exclamation points in your writing...they have too powerful of an effect when used and should be used sparingly...if your dialogue or scene is structured/described correctly, the reader will provide their own emphasis in many places. Too many exclamation points make your characters seem hopped up on meth :)

Your dialogue and the given dialects for the characters do a pretty good job of helping you establish characters from one another and add depth.

The angel hair scene...way too "all of a sudden"...i know it's first person so you can't describe Angel's thoughts...but maybe that means you flesh it out in a conversation between the two...then tell Jason's side of considering it in his head...I don' t know...it's difficult...one of the reasons I don't like first-person in novels...way too much information to consider and try to process through one person alone...

Also...sometimes you have to cut back on describing inconsequential actions...like when he opened the bag and dropped the hair in...

Quote
Holding the hair in my right hand, I pulled my magic bag off my belt loop with my left.  Using my teeth, I opened up the drawstrings.  Setting the bag down into my lap, I pushed the opening wide with my fingers and dropped one strand of hair into the bag.

Just say something like, "Pulling the bag from my belt, I opened the drawstrings and casually dropped the hair inside." and be done with it...

Finally, the scenes seem to go by very quickly...like checkpoints on a board game...settle in and let the actions impact the characters a bit...it feels like someone is running behind the characters and pushing them down a trail saying, "Yeah, yeah...crying and killing, crying and killing...whatever...let's go, let's go...gotta' get to the end...let's go...!"

I like the unexpected nature of some of your scenes...I don't know if the "angel gets eaten" scene really works, but i like that you are intent on following your own path...makes for a more interesting story.

I have to say, my most interested point in the story was when Angel was eaten and he was chasing Newt...I was honestly drawn in and wanting to know if he was going to get her out alive...and then...the heart-eating scene...and I was out again.
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Frog

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 08:19:00 PM »
alright, I'm going to be completely honest with you here...i hope you take it the right way...this chapter and how you depict Angel and Jason...makes you seem like you have a very low opinion of women. I'm sure that's not true...and I'm sure I seem that way in my own writing at times (because I just don't know what it's like to be a woman...), but Angel cries WAY too much, is MUCH too quick to do whatever Jason might want or will make him happy, and really has no redeemable qualities not attached to Jason. The part where Jason tries to redeem his opinion of her (saying she's different than he thought women were...) doesn't work at all. It's like trying to damm a mighty river with a single log.

It's okay to show Jason as having a low opinion of women, but through scenes and dialogue, you have to show the reader that there is a redeemable quality in your female characters - whether Jason sees it the same way or not.  And, honestly, just a note...if you DO give Jason a low opinion of women, it makes it difficult for the reader to identify with him - very problematic in first person.

Also, I don't know how "young" Angel is...but I would avoid calling her a "young girl" in the story...it makes the sexuality seem VERY inappropriate and awkward...
You know there was always something that rubbed me the wrong way about Angel's character, but I never commented on it because I really wasn't sure what it was. Now I do. I guess that is the hazard of somewhat knowing the author because I don't think Ben would have done it on purpose.... Good catch though Deckacards.

I thought about mentioning some of that, then decided against it. Can't have facts getting in the way of a funny.

Aw yes, the all important funny. Anything we can do to get Ben to spill tea is a good thing. Maybe next time I'm in with a patient/doctor I can explain that the fact that we have no idea what is wrong with them and are making up medical jargon to make them think we do is actually a lot funnier than actually trying to figure out what is wrong with them and see how well that goes over....

Oh, so there is no misunderstanding this time, that was sarcasm. A whole bunch of it. ;)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 08:20:49 PM by Frog »
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deckacards

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2009, 08:40:58 PM »
Quote
You know there was always something that rubbed me the wrong way about Angel's character, but I never commented on it because I really wasn't sure what it was. Now I do. I guess that is the hazard of somewhat knowing the author because I don't think Ben would have done it on purpose.... Good catch though Deckacards.

Hehe...yeah, see...I almost didn't because I truly don't think he really does...I think it's just us as men trying to write women...it's tough...I'm always terrified I'm going to someday get published and the review will say, "Sexist/Racist pig!" and I'll be like, "What???!!! i never...damn it!!!!"

HEY BEN! just to get your attention...I noticed there was some discussion about using tags or not in dialogue...if you are really wanting to study how to write dialogue without using very many tags, pick up something by Hemingway and Catcher in the Rye (by Salinger)  ....Ernest Hemingway was great at writing dialogue and entire stories with minimal use of tags...and his method is not hard to figure out if you study it a bit... he learned to write by being a journalist for the Kansas City Star, so he has a very minimalist style, anyway...and Salinger...OH MAN could that man ever write rich dialogue!

Anyway...just a tip if you are really interested in writing with minimal dialogue tags...however, Hemingway's work has a very distinct style because of his minimalism...would be hard to write like him without giving your story that kind of feel...so...you would have to decide if that is what you want...
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Frog

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2009, 09:23:22 PM »
Hehe...yeah, see...I almost didn't because I truly don't think he really does...I think it's just us as men trying to write women...it's tough...I'm always terrified I'm going to someday get published and the review will say, "Sexist/Racist pig!" and I'll be like, "What???!!! i never...damn it!!!!"
I know what you mean. I was just reading one of the other threads on 'sexuality in Mistborn' and now I am scared that people won't think my boys are believable because they don't think about sex very often like some of the posters in there seem to be impling they should. Do you think anyone would notice if I just avoided the problem by making all my characters girls? That could work, though I suppose that would ruin my chances of even a soft romance sub plot.... ;)
Anyway, I'll stop jacking Ben's thread now. I promise.
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Reaves

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2009, 11:51:19 PM »
Just to reassure you deckacards: normally Ben's stuff is very good. And he's got another female POV most people here thought he did very well.

I too am really afraid I'll be labeled as sexist/racist...especially racist  :o

Quote
Anything we can do to get Ben to spill tea is a good thing. Maybe next time I'm in with a patient/doctor I can explain that the fact that we have no idea what is wrong with them and are making up medical jargon to make them think we do is actually a lot funnier than actually trying to figure out what is wrong with them and see how well that goes over....
LOL
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RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Necroben

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2009, 11:52:45 PM »
Ok, I'll go out on a limb and say I'm not sexist.  What I tried to do and failed was give Jason that bit of character arc.  But yeah, it doesn't in one sentence.

deckacards:  Thanks a lot, you've given me a lot to think on. :D
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deckacards

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2009, 12:02:25 AM »
Necro says: "Thanks a lot, deckacards..."

Necro thinks:  "Thanks a lot, As soon as I find your address in whitepages.com, I'm gonna' burn your house down and eat your heart, you hack! deckacards..."

Anyone else feel like a jerk after posting their reviews?  ???
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jwdenzel

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2009, 12:17:31 AM »
Anyone else feel like a jerk after posting their reviews?  ???

Sometimes.  I used to be far more careful until I benefitted from meeting somebody giving me criticism who didn't pull punches.  It was the best thing that ever happened to my writing.  (This was back when I did more screenwriting for my shorts)

What I like about this writing group is that everyone gives great feedback, and we also point out the positive things as well.  Sometimes hearing what you did well  is just as helpful as hearing what you did wrong.

BTW - Ben, in response to the healing scene... I wasn't implying that you make it more sexual.  I guess I worded my suggestion wrong.  I was suggesting that if you make it more about Angel teaching Jason, then the sensuality you were going for will still be there, but it will feel less like pr0n.  :)


These are not my stories. I just write them.

Reaves

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2009, 01:54:33 AM »
Anyone else feel like a jerk after posting their reviews?  ???

Sometimes. I've noticed that often I'm actually a lot harsher on people who's manuscripts were actually very good, or who have been consistently good in the past. Pushing them to improve, I guess.
The downside is if I'm critiqueing a manuscript that I don't think has much going for it, I'll be really nice... :(
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Frog

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2009, 02:16:21 AM »
Sorry me again. But it's not really a thread jack if your responding to everyone else right?

Just to reassure you deckacards: normally Ben's stuff is very good. And he's got another female POV most people here thought he did very well.

I liked Miranda too and I don't think anyone was actually trying to imply that Ben was sexist, just that Angel could stand some more developement.

Anyone else feel like a jerk after posting their reviews?  ???

Yep and then even when I try to put a positive spin on somethings-even the things I actually did like- I feel I am coming off as fake, but I know that most of the negative things help me, so I'd like to think that my negative stuff has the potential to help others too. At least that's the hope because I would hate to think I'm discouraging anyone. I really don't think I've read anything on here that didn't have potential even though they are all works in progress. You guys are just awesome that way. :D

Sometimes. I've noticed that often I'm actually a lot harsher on people who's manuscripts were actually very good, or who have been consistently good in the past. Pushing them to improve, I guess.
The downside is if I'm critiquing a manuscript that I don't think has much going for it, I'll be really nice... :(

Note to self... when Reaves starts swearing at me I'll know I finally have something worth while.... ;)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 02:19:20 AM by Frog »
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deckacards

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2009, 02:23:31 AM »
Quote
Note to self... when Reaves starts swearing at me I'll know I finally have something worth while....


Or if he gives you a compliment, it may mean he thinks it's worthless :)  ...you're screwed now, Reaves...you'll be second-guessed forever! hehe...j/k
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Necroben

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Re: 1-26-09 Aspirations
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2009, 03:51:42 AM »
Necro says: "Thanks a lot, deckacards..."

Necro thinks: "Thanks a lot, As soon as I find your address in whitepages.com, I'm gonna' burn your house down and eat your heart, you hack! deckacards..."

Anyone else feel like a jerk after posting their reviews? ???

Ah, come on.  Y'all'er great.  How about; thank you very much?

I've always figured be as mean as you want, so long it's constructive.  Saying this sucks doesn't help anyone.

BTW - Ben, in response to the healing scene... I wasn't implying that you make it more sexual. I guess I worded my suggestion wrong. I was suggesting that if you make it more about Angel teaching Jason, then the sensuality you were going for will still be there, but it will feel less like pr0n. :)

Gotcha.  That makes a lot more sense.
I don't suffer from insanity...  I enjoy every minuet of it!

It's ok to be strange, as long as it's on paper. :)