Author Topic: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?  (Read 11521 times)

Reaves

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2009, 04:12:31 AM »
I don't know about Goodkind, but whatever else GRRM may be its not a lack of plot. There is so much going on in his books and so many character arcs that sometimes it really gets confusing. I don't really know where he is going with the main 'undead invasion' plot, which moves very slowly throughout the series so far, but all the various manipulations of the courts and various factions and how the throne has changed hands provides focus and plot for the entire series. I do agree with you about the overuse of sex, though.
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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2009, 04:48:43 AM »
So how much sexuality do you think there will be in A Memory of Light? Jordan never wrote sex scenes (he just talked about them afterwards, like with Rand and Aviendha, or by saying that Rand felt a burning flame of passion) but he did have a lot of ogling, especially with Mat.

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2009, 05:02:34 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a scene in Well of Ascension that takes place directly after Vin and Elend have sex?
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maxonennis

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2009, 05:08:23 AM »
I've been reading Goodkind and just got done with a Game of Thrones, and those books overly use sex and... well... it distracts from a plot that is barely there in the first place (IMO). I really appreciate the lack of it in Mistborn.

I'll give you Goodkind, he puts a lot of junk in his books that just doesn't fit. But George RR Martian uses sex as a way to farther the plot (rape, incest,...just plain sex, it's all used for character development). There isn't any sexual overtones in Mistborn because it isn't apart of the story, it wouldn't fit. If Sanderson had put a sex scene, or whatever, in Mistborn it would've felt as unnecessary as it does in the Sword of Truth.

ryamjm, I don't care what the legal age is, I don't want to read about a sixteen year old having sex (especially when my little sister is a month away from turning sixteen). (Spoiler warning for those who haven't read book two) Also, it's obvious that she and Elend have been having sex since they've married... I honestly don't know what you're looking for :-\
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maxonennis

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2009, 05:09:21 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a scene in Well of Ascension that takes place directly after Vin and Elend have sex?

You just beat me to it  :)
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JCHancey

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2009, 05:16:12 AM »
I don't care to read about that kind of stuff. They could just mention it in passing, without the dirty details, and it would still work fine. When it describes that kind of stuff... Jordan did it right in WoT. He mentioned it briefly, no details, and life went on. You know what happened and it didn't distract or whatnot. I've only read a Game of Thrones but I've heard that GRRM is the worst of anyone in that kind of crap. As for Goodkind it seemed that the the first few books revolved around Richard and Kahlan finally being able to get down and dirty. Maybe I was just bitter about how much he took from Jordan but that's how I read them. You don't need to go into great detail about how they were having sex, just mentioning is enough.
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maxonennis

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2009, 05:46:09 AM »
I don't care to read about that kind of stuff. They could just mention it in passing, without the dirty details, and it would still work fine. When it describes that kind of stuff... Jordan did it right in WoT. He mentioned it briefly, no details, and life went on. You know what happened and it didn't distract or whatnot. I've only read a Game of Thrones but I've heard that GRRM is the worst of anyone in that kind of crap.

Song of Fire and Ice is all about the dirty facts of live plus magic. There isn't near as much sex, killing, and violence in his books as people think, the problem is that George RR Martian a really good writer. He makes each one of those "controversial" scenes stand out, he makes each hurt because you get so close to the characters. That is good writing, even when its depicting something you don't like. (Of course if it is a scene that someone doesn't like I wouldn't expect them to admit that he got his point across.)
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Andrew the Great

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2009, 06:10:46 AM »
I'll agree, the lack of sex scenes in mistborn was refreshing. Especially after reading Song of Ice and Fire for a while. I'll agree, some of the sex is necessary to the plot, but other scenes were just sex for the sake of putting sex in. It was a bit much for me. Hence, I've taken a momentary break from SOIAF. I also couldn't get into Feast for Crows, but that's an entirely different discussion.

As someone else mentioned, I think Robert Jordan did it best. Briefly mention that something happened and move on. Or do the scene leading up to it and then fade out before anything actually happens. That way you know what happened between the characters and therefore understand their actions, but you also don't get the "Oh, I really didn't need to know that," reaction.
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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2009, 08:13:03 AM »
Ok, I agree that there doesnt need to be sex/sexuality in a book to make it good. So you can call me crazy(or a pervert i guess) but I believe Martin did well SOIAF and it sex sense. It show the true under belly of how it was in midevil ends. Another note is... one can agrue that sex can be an expression of one's self. I dont know what im tring to get at here(it seem i rarely do haha). I just wanted to post in this topic :D
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Dangerbutton

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2009, 08:37:16 AM »
Something important to consider in the relationship between Vin and Elend is how Vin felt about the way noblemen slept with skaa women. Were I Elend, after the scene in the first book where Vin asks him if he had ever bedded skaa women, I'd sure as crap wanna treat her with a lot more respect, no matter how attractive I found her. To me, the fact that you never saw Elend "checkin' her out" showed how strong their relationship was. The books also put a large emphasis on the trust in their relationship.
I thought the amount of sexuality in the book was just right. You were aware that Breeze and Allriane had been sleeping together (Brandon even confirms that in his annotations of WoA), and there is a scene that happens after the (newlywed) Vin and Elend have been having sex. It doesn't dwell on those things, just mentions them in passing.
Also, whoever pointed out that a lot of the others were tied up (I'm too lazy to look through this small thread and quote it), had a point. Ham was married, Kelsier had once been married, and perhaps wanted to leave it at that.
Spook, though. I think he's a realistically portrayed male. When he's younger, you've got the awkward teen with a crush on Vin. In HoA, there's that one girl in the one place that he obviously is attracted to. . .  I don't remember her name and am too lazy to look it up. You know who I'm talkin about. It was made clear that Spook was very attracted to the girl in HoA, but you never heard him thinking "would you look at that booty, I'd like to . . . ". Even a teenage boy whose hormones are probably raging just as much as every other teenage boy's isn't automatically start thinkin sexual things about a girl he is attracted to. There's nothing unrealistic about the way men were depicted in Mistborn.

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2009, 01:27:58 PM »
For me I was glad to read a book that didn't have sex scenes in it.  I think that fantasy is about exploring a strange new world, meeting different characters of different races, good versus evil, and other stuff like that.  It's kind of refreshing to come across a writer who concentrates on telling a good story, without feeling the need to add a sex scene here, and there.

As far as sexuality goes, I felt that there was something missing in the relationship between Vin and Elend.  Obviously there are people who'll disagree with me, but it didn't feel like this was a girlfriend/boyfriend or husband/wife relationship to me.  It felt more like two best friends or at best brother/sister, so when I'd come across a scene  of affection it seemed odd to me.  Is sexuality the part that is missing?  I don't know maybe I just needed more scenes of affection for this relationship to feel real.

For the record, sexuality doesn't have to be:

Quote
"would you look at that booty, I'd like to . . . "

If you watch sitcoms or comedians from the '70s, they were very good about talking about sex without actually talking about sex.  They just skillfully danced around the subject, and everyone knew what they were talking about.  Johnny Carson was a master at this! 

I never would've  mentioned any of this because I think the series as a whole was a home run, as far as what I'm looking for in a fantasy novel.  However, since it was here I thought I'd voice my opinion.  Every book of Brandon Sanderson's that I have read has been better than the last one, so I see no reason why he won't keep getting better. 
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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2009, 06:17:29 PM »
[...]To me, the fact that you never saw Elend "checkin' her out" showed how strong their relationship was. The books also put a large emphasis on the trust in their relationship.[...]

I check my girlfriend out whenever I get the chance. Does that mean we don't have a strong relationship?

P.S. I strongly believe she checks me out just as much (okay, maybe a tad lass).

GreedyAlgorithm

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2009, 07:09:33 PM »
Note: sex is not bad, evil, or dirty. We have a silly culture that says it is, so leaving it out of a book is just fine for sales, but I find it very hard to believe a "gratuitous sex scene" is worse than the bloody, gory mess Vin leaves in her wake.

happyman

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2009, 07:50:10 PM »
Note: sex is not bad, evil, or dirty. We have a silly culture that says it is, so leaving it out of a book is just fine for sales, but I find it very hard to believe a "gratuitous sex scene" is worse than the bloody, gory mess Vin leaves in her wake.

I disagree.

OK, my approach is really somewhat more nuanced than that, but did you want to discuss anything or just lay down moral fiats?
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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2009, 08:54:28 PM »
I've been reading Badkind...

fix'd

Sex and sexuality have places in any and every culture.  This involves the high degree of, or lack thereof.  My personal opinion is that there had better be a reason for it.  Authors such as Steve Berry and Verry Badkind throw it in there for shock value.  Many horror authors do the same.  The point is, is there a reason for it presence or absence?  I dont feel that much would have been added in the Mistborn series with more of it.  There was very little swearing in the Mistborn series, but I dont think any more would have added anything.  See what I'm saying? On the other side, R Scott Bakker's novels would have lost quite a bit of power if you take out the sex and sexuality.  It had a purpose (even though is crossed the line at times).  If things such as sex, violence, religion or language are there just for shock value, then perhaps they are not needed.  However, if those particulars further the characters or themes of the novel in a way impossible without them, then I say they are ok.  That's my opinion.
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