Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?

[ryanjm]

I just finished the first two Mistborn books and really liked them.  I especially enjoyed the first one's incredible fast pace and Kelsier as a central male character.  But back to the topic:  Did anyone else notice a lack of sexuality in the books?  There is a mention of prostitute here, rape there, but the actual main characters themselves never discuss sex or mention women/men sexually.  It's all *blush* *giggle* stuff, and for a 22yr old male, Elend has a remarkable ability to keep his eyes always on Vin's face, with nary a hint of sexual desire, appreciation of her athletic body, etc...  the same goes for the other men in the crew.  Everyone is a white shining knight who would never dare sneak a peak at a low cut dress, or admire the shape of a well formed behind.

 I think I only notice this because of its conspicuous absence, because I've never noticed a lack of sexual energy in a book before, and I've read more than a few.  It's almost as if being a 'good man' is associated with chastity and chaste thoughts as well.  Anyone who openly has sex is a deviant ala Straff Venture. 

I went through a few hundred pages of the second book wondering if Vin and Elend were just friends or lovers.  And it didn't appear they did more than kiss until they were married...two years after they met.  Really? In a medieval society with no religious teachings/guilt holding them back?

I did a quick search for 'sex' before posting this to see if it's been discussed before, and ended up coming across some postings of Brandon Sanderson's talking about his Mormon faith and related issues.  I'm actually pretty impressed that he is able to believe in that faith and write Sazed's character so well, acknowledging the existence of many faiths all proclaiming to be correct and others to be wrong, and the birth and death of those religions as time passes.   Anyway, that got me to thinking that perhaps his religious views have influenced this area of his writing.  Any thoughts? If he can write about religion well without the need to show his characters as deeply devout, then I think he can step outside of the box when it comes to separating Mormon views on sex with how a character in a medieval'ish world without any organized religion would behave.  What do you all think?

[little wilson]

I didn't notice it's absence. At least, I didn't take it in a bad light. I liked the fact that it was a clean book. The main characters were GOOD people. Morally good, not just actions-good.

It's all *blush* *giggle* stuff

Just because sex isn't mentioned doesn't mean it's all *blush* *giggle stuff. I don't really know many people who talk about sex openly. That doesn't mean when it's brought up sometime that it's embarrassing, it just means that there are more important things in life than talking about sex. I think the same goes for the crew. It also helps that they were such good men, and some of them were tied down (Kell (even if Mare was dead), Ham, and in a way Dox), so during their down-time when they weren't talking about planning, they would talk about other things.

That doesn't mean that sex didn't exist for any of them. I think Breeze is probably the crewmember who saw the most of it, and that's because of Allriane. I got the impression that she had no qualms in that area--just based on the way she dressed, and the fact that she seduced Breeze, and a few other qualities of her person.

I'm actually pretty impressed that he is able to believe in that faith and write Sazed's character so well, acknowledging the existence of many faiths all proclaiming to be correct and others to be wrong, and the birth and death of those religions as time passes.   

Wow. Really? You really think Mormons are that close-minded? He's an author. This is fiction. There's nothing contrary to his beliefs, it's not hurting anyone's spirituality talking about other faiths in a fictional world. And anyway, Sazed is probably the character that religious people would be able to identify the MOST with--simply because of his search for the truth in HoA.

Anyway, that got me to thinking that perhaps his religious views have influenced this area of his writing.  Any thoughts?

Religion influencing Brandon's writing? Yeah. I think so. Obviously, he's not trying to convert his readers, but I do think that his morals keep his books clean. You can tell that the most by the sex. It doesn't have even a remotely prominent place in the books (unlike other books by other contemporary authors). Another thing is swearing. The characters don't really curse, at least not much that I can recall. The biggest curse phrase is 'Lord Ruler' (and on a sidenote, now I have a craving to replace my curse word 'blast' with 'Rashek'....).

If he can write about religion well without the need to show his characters as deeply devout, then I think he can step outside of the box when it comes to separating Mormon views on sex with how a character in a medieval'ish world without any organized religion would behave.

I'm sure Brandon is able to step out of the box on a lot of things, but I don't see him changing his views on sex in his literature. I really hope that he doesn't. Sex is an incredibly spiritual thing and it's really not something that should be taken lightly. When it is, it degrades the spirit. Literature that degrades can hardly be referred to as 'good' literature.

[RedMars11]

I think there just wasn't a need to write about the sex.  It just really didn't come up.  Weather Elend and Vin were having sex before being married (I guess not) didn't effect their feelings for each other.  Maybe he did it just to show the last few walls between them, maybe it was a vestige of his personal feelings on that matter, conscious or not.  Elend is described as being attracted to her a few times, and she's described as being good looking.  It's enough for the reader to get the idea.  It's just not a story for that aspect.  Personally I kind of enjoyed it that way, in that the two of them were together without that tension, implying they were comfortable enough with each other not to become smoldering blobs of hormones.

Truthfully I think you're reading to much into this area of the novel.  Straff was definitely a deviant, and a terrible man, but I'd hardly call the only character shown to treat sex thusly enough to call it a trend or an ethical ruling on how the world worked as a whole.  After all, when you get down to it he, Elend and Vin were the only ones in anyway expressly said to have had sex.

Also, to be frank reading a sex scene makes me feel uncomfortable and a bit voyeristic.  Especially if I'm reading in a public place.  It rarelly adds enough to a story to make it worth the rest as far as I'm concerned.

As for religion, he discussed before how important he felt it was to write characters who's views conflicted with his own, and to make sure they came off as truthful in order to give things variety and to keep the characters from being mouthpieces for his views.  At least something to that effect.

Personally I'm an atheist and I'd rather see characters of various and conflicting faiths, and/or the lack thereof in order to make things more realistic and interesting.  I know if I were to write anything, I'd mix things up.  I wouldn't make my views the only ones worthy of notice unless I was trying to push a singular message, which I doubt I would want too.  That would just get overly preachy.  I'd rather relate my own conflicts on what's right and wrong rather than show everything through the lens of my personal resolution.  Also the challenge of showing somebody ELSE as right interests me greatly.

Wow. Really? You really think Mormons are that close-minded? He's an author. This is fiction. There's nothing contrary to his beliefs, it's not hurting anyone's spirituality talking about other faiths in a fictional world. And anyway, Sazed is probably the character that religious people would be able to identify the MOST with--simply because of his search for the truth in HoA.

Oddly enough considering I just said I'm an atheist myself,  I feel the same way about Sazed.  He came to conclusions different from mine, yet his path to it and how the resolution made him feel about it really jived with me.  I think I liked how (I think) Breeze said it: "You're just not meant to be an atheist."  Different people have different ways of thinking which make them work the best as people and give them the most peace with the world, and Sazed found the path for him, which I think is really the most important aspect of things.

PS:  Somebody really needs to add "Elend" and other Sanderson invented names to the spellcheck.

[little wilson]

PS:  Somebody really needs to add "Elend" and other Sanderson invented names to the spellcheck.

Haha.....

And I totally agree (with your whole post, not just that one particular quoted section).

[Emmaleem]

Ryanjm, I noticed the absence of sex and sexuality too... and I really, really appreciated it.   

Would more innuendo/sexual references have added another layer of depth to the Elend/Vin relationship?  Or to others?  Possibly.  But it didn't come up, I guess; it wasn't needed for the story, and like RedMars said, I'd rather not feel like a voyeur.

[melbatoast]

I'd just like to add that Mormons aren't the only ones who prefer not too much sex in lit/movies. I've talked to many other Christians who feel the same way, and I'm sure other religions as well. Besides, why would I want to read about sex when I've got my husband? 

[ryanjm]

Thanks for the responses. I was hoping to provoke some good discussion

To clarify: I do not mean scenes where sex is graphically depicted. I don't really care for that either. What I mean is 'sexuality' in the characters' thoughts and actions.  To quote myself:  "Elend has a remarkable ability to keep his eyes always on Vin's face, with nary a hint of sexual desire, appreciation of her athletic body, etc...  the same goes for the other men in the crew.  Everyone is a white shining knight who would never dare sneak a peak at a low cut dress, or admire the shape of a well formed behind."  That is not a graphic depiction of sex, just a realistic portrayal of men.  I feel like one (sexuality) is almost a requirement in order to write a realistic adult male, and the other (sex) is a stylistic choice on how graphic you want to be.

There are tons of things you can pick on in any author's choice of how to portray characters, but this one just stuck out the most for me.  Lots of other things I can overlook (like no one bothering to carefully investigate the lord ruler's private room until months/years later, etc...) but I think this one area could loosen up a bit and it would improve the realism and depth of the characters. 

[Emmaleem]

Go read Warbreaker; that has plenty of noticing physical attributes.  And discussion of sex when it's necessary to the story.

But it's not graphic; he says what the story needs.

I think Mistborn just didn't need it.  But a story that does, like Warbreaker, will be treated differently.

[little wilson]

Good point about Warbeaker.... I loved that book. Can't wait for it to be published (June?).

[Shaggy]

I personally can't really see Vin having sex (I'm only on the Well of Ascension, so I don't know if she does in HoA or not). Having sex involves truly giving yourself up in a way, and to her mind, I'm sure all she would be able to think of is how easy it would be for her to be killed while having sex. I just can't see her having sex for at least a few years after she's been able to tamp down her 'instincts' a little bit.

[maxonennis]

Vin was a sixteen year old when the first book starts...

[Shaggy]

 :-[Hehe…ummm…right. Awkward.

I know, but later on in the series, I guess.…Also, considering how so many of the women are treated in the books, sixteen wouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE.

[maxonennis]

I could see Elden getting a little bugeyed when checking out Vin (of course the times he would've done this were probably during Vin's POV), but honestly If Kelsier, or one of the older men did I would've been a bit creeped out. I don't think too much "dddaaang!" would've helped the novel.

[ryanjm]

Vin was a sixteen year old when the first book starts...

That's the age of consent in a majority of states, and many countries...but she's also 18 in Well of Ascension.   But regardless of her age, all the other characters are older than her.

[JCHancey]

I've been reading Goodkind and just got done with a Game of Thrones, and those books overly use sex and... well... it distracts from a plot that is barely there in the first place (IMO). I really appreciate the lack of it in Mistborn.