Poll

Do you think that many of the major characters will be killed in "A Memory of Light?"

All of them (Rand included)
4 (6.8%)
Only one or two
27 (45.8%)
Only (all of) the bad guys
6 (10.2%)
They'll all survive (not really possible)
1 (1.7%)
Only Rand and the bad guys
21 (35.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: A Memory of Light  (Read 30815 times)

Shard

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #390 on: February 23, 2009, 03:45:24 AM »
I think the use of the Eye of the World pure saidin may be the ticket there as to why the Creator chose to speak at that moment. It just seems interesting that for a Deity that tends to take a back seat to events he takes a hand here to stop Rand from going to far.
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Hamster

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #391 on: February 23, 2009, 04:24:30 AM »
I agree with Shaggy, Lews Therin is not a very viable source due to the whole insane, destroying the world shtick. If I had some disease that made me crazy, and another more crazy guy who's been dead for thousands of years and is suddenly talking in my head told me it was cured, I would probably think twice. Or ask for a sandwich.

I also agree with Shard, I think the Eye of the World's Saidin has to do with it, also, I think Rand's sudden power was going to his head, and he was going to challenge the Dark One prematurely, and probably die, so I think that might be why the Creator intervened.

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #392 on: February 23, 2009, 06:13:11 AM »
the eye had to be more than just pure saidan as Aginor was so hyped up about touching it. The black threads that attach someone to the dark one (end of book 4 asomdeans get cut) allow access to pure saidan. The eye had to be something more... even if it wasn't said directly.
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Shard

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #393 on: February 23, 2009, 12:16:02 PM »
Well the Eye was a Well so that would add massive boost of power, he probably felt that if he could get all of it before Rand, he could kill Rand. Which is probably what the DO didn't want and thus another reason he only got a "second chance".

Not to mention that there is also the Horn, Banner and Seal in there as well.
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happyman

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #394 on: February 23, 2009, 04:25:19 PM »
Shaggy and Hampster,

I don't think LTT is quite as insane as all that.  In fact, I'm not certain what he is, exactly, although I tend to believe that he's simply Rand's attempt to deal with having LTT's memories in his head.  Same memories+same soul=similar personality (shaped by the new personality and the taint as well, though).  But as one of the few people around who remember touching Saidin without the taint, and given just how important that would be to him, I still tend to believe him.

Also note that other male channellers believe that the taint has been removed, even ones who know nothing about the cleansing.  Especially note that some of the Aes Sedia bonded to Asha'man were convinced.  I think that all together, this is about as close as we can get in-story to having the author come out and just say it.  What is the point of arguing further?  There's zero evidence that Saidin hasn't been cleansed, and lots of witnesses that it has.
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Rrikor

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #395 on: February 23, 2009, 04:49:58 PM »
Didn't one of the female forsaken question whether the male forsaken would be as welcomed by the DO now that the reason for there bonding is no longer necessary?  That would mean that the forsaken also beleive that the taint is gone.  I am not sure how they would know without having to touch the power through the taint though.  I am pretty sure I remember that but I havent read the books in a while.  I need to finish my current book so I can start the reread. 

Omelethead

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #396 on: February 23, 2009, 06:11:51 PM »
The Eye of the World was a well of pure Saidin. While it's true that the black threads allow Forsaken to channel clean Saidin, they also allow the DO to keep track of his Chosen. If Aginor had access to the Eye, he could really further his own agenda. And it is debatable as to whether the Eye could act as an angreal or even a sa'angreal.

Casco

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #397 on: February 23, 2009, 07:40:20 PM »
The only 2 we know for a fact will survive TG is Mat and Tuon :) RJ did have plans for a book about them several years after TG...but he didnt start it before he past away :(

Reaves

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #398 on: February 23, 2009, 09:46:33 PM »
the eye had to be more than just pure saidan as Aginor was so hyped up about touching it. The black threads that attach someone to the dark one (end of book 4 asomdeans get cut) allow access to pure saidan. The eye had to be something more... even if it wasn't said directly.

I'm pretty sure all the hype about the Eye was because using pure saidin through the Dark One has one huge drawback: its through the Dark One. Every time someone uses saidin through DO, he knows. Presumably he knows what the channeler in question is doing with it as well. Its the way he keeps track of the males, some of which may only have joined him to escape the madness. Also, presumably at any time the DO can cut off that connection and withdraw clean saidin from the channeler, leaving them open to the taint.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #399 on: February 23, 2009, 10:02:35 PM »
I think all the hype about the Eye of the World was just that - hype.  If the amount of power there were truly enough to free the Dark One completely, as Moiraine says, the Dark One's followers would have freed him completely with trivial ease back in the War of Power.  It is also clearly far from enough to fill all the Dragon Reborn's needs until he can cleanse Saidin.  The pool of power itself is really just a red herring and a unique way to guard the real purpose of the Eye - the Horn of Valere, one of the Seals, and the dragon banner.  It cannot be cleared by any means save a man channeling, and clearing it requires a man of such strength that few besides the true Dragon Reborn would be capable of it.  Thus, the three items guarded by the pool are safe until either the Dragon Reborn or one of the Forsaken comes.

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #400 on: February 23, 2009, 10:36:06 PM »
The pool of power itself is really just a red herring and a unique way to guard the real purpose of the Eye - the Horn of Valere, one of the Seals, and the dragon banner.

I've never understood why the banner was so valuable - couldn't (and didn't) false Dragons just make their own banners?  I mean, I know this one was special, seeming to be made of one piece and not woven or printed, but really what difference does that make?  Did ordinary people see it and somehow know instantly that Rand was the true Dragon?

The Horn I understand, and the Seal to some extent (although it seems like not all the Seals were similarly guarded - and this one got shattered despite its hiding place, so I don't really see the point), but I really don't get why the banner was worth hiding with those other items.
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jnktoburen

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #401 on: February 23, 2009, 11:02:18 PM »
Its the way he keeps track of the males, some of which may only have joined him to escape the madness.

All of the male Forsaken were sealed with the DO (sans Ishmael) prior to the counterstroke that tainted Saidin, so they wouldn't have joined him to escape the madness.

I've thought about the Eye a bit as I've been rereading the entire series. The Eye was distilled, pure Saidin, somehow created after the breaking. Remember, an already hurt Someshta was sent to guard the Horn and the Dragon Banner in the vision that Rand has through his ancestors eyes while in Ruidean. Present-day people assumed the Eye was probably meant to be used in the last battle - but as Moiraine says - "But, the Horn is supposed to be used at the last battle, and the Eye was concealing it." Thus the Eye had to be used prior to the last battle. The world faced some extremely dire circumstances in that first book. The trollocs coming out of the Blight were about to overrun the borderlands. Had Rand not used the Eye to destroy that army, the light might not have had a chance. And based on what Rand did, I'd say the Eye functioned as a massive Sa'angreal. So in some way, we might argue that the last battle has begun (and that it actually is a war), and that the first move of the shadow was countered by Rand. The subsequent events are simply more skirmishes leading up to the final battle.

The sad part is, we may never know exactly the purpose and point behind the Eye of the World.
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Shaggy

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #402 on: February 23, 2009, 11:07:00 PM »
Quote
Also note that other male channellers believe that the taint has been removed, even ones who know nothing about the cleansing.  Especially note that some of the Aes Sedia bonded to Asha'man were convinced.  I think that all together, this is about as close as we can get in-story to having the author come out and just say it.  What is the point of arguing further?  There's zero evidence that Saidin hasn't been cleansed, and lots of witnesses that it has.
I'm not saying that Saidin isn't clean; I'm just saying that what LTT says isn't very good evidence to support the fact.
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Shard

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #403 on: February 24, 2009, 12:14:40 AM »
The banner's use becomes evident I think in tGH when Artur Hawkwing asks for it, the False dragons may have made banners but they were as the Dragons themselves, False. The True Banner of Light must be used to herald the Dragon, Rand al'Thor and the Hero's of the Horn also require it's use.

As for the Seal yes it broke, as a sign that they failed to protect it. As Ishy wasn't killed only mortally wounded and had to spend time recovering. I'm not sure what it is during the tEotW and tGH battles that destroys the Seal and during tDR other then Ishy's death that seems to keep it whole. The only thing I can think of is the Ishy being dead factor. Somehow those first two meetings Ishy pulls some sort of victory for the Dark Side despite being severaly injured and the armies of Trollocks and Seanchan pushed back, respectively in each book.

All we know is that the Aes Sedai of old safeguarded a pure amount of Saidin along with the Banner, seal and Horn. Then the story became legend which became Myth.
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happyman

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #404 on: February 24, 2009, 06:37:18 PM »
Quote
Also note that other male channellers believe that the taint has been removed, even ones who know nothing about the cleansing.  Especially note that some of the Aes Sedia bonded to Asha'man were convinced.  I think that all together, this is about as close as we can get in-story to having the author come out and just say it.  What is the point of arguing further?  There's zero evidence that Saidin hasn't been cleansed, and lots of witnesses that it has.
I'm not saying that Saidin isn't clean; I'm just saying that what LTT says isn't very good evidence to support the fact.

Why not?  The rest of his memories have been accurate.  The hysteria and emotions seem to be less than sane, and can probably be attributed to Rand's firm denial that he is LTT combined with LTT's last memories, but the actual factual information from LTT has been correct.
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