Poll

Do you think that many of the major characters will be killed in "A Memory of Light?"

All of them (Rand included)
4 (6.8%)
Only one or two
27 (45.8%)
Only (all of) the bad guys
6 (10.2%)
They'll all survive (not really possible)
1 (1.7%)
Only Rand and the bad guys
21 (35.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: A Memory of Light  (Read 30986 times)

Publius

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #180 on: January 16, 2009, 02:16:45 PM »
I agree partly with what you said, but I don't agree with the One Power being gone from the world.  RJ had plans to revisit the world and write other trilogies, so I don't think that he would've planned that for the ending.

Quote
Furthermore, Rand will want to prevent the DO from tainting the power again. It's my guess that he will use the power in combination with Nynaeve (or someone else, just to make sure we've got both halves of the power) to seal the DO.

I think that instead of Nynaeve it would be Egwene because in the beginning of the series there was a prophecy about those to being connected but not how they thought they would be.

I have often wondered where Padan Fain fits into this series he was one of the first bad guys introduced in the series, and reappears every so often.  I think that Rands battle will take place on two levels, physical and spiritual.  I think that the DO will possess Padan Fain and battle Rand, where Lews Therin finally takes control of Rand.  Fain kills Rand.  Rands three woman will stand over and morn Rand.  Fain starts killing everyone except Mat and maybe a few others.

I know that the ending to the Great Hunt contradicts what I'll be predicting next, but I think that it is still possible in some way...All is lost the DO has won... Mat for what ever reason finds the Horn of Valere blows it and resurrects all the dead characters... We then find out that the dead are actually the heroes from the Age of Legends.  Rand stikes down Fain and their battle continues on a spiritual realm. 

Rand is able to bridge the gap between Saidar and Saidin and gives that ability to others fighting.  Now the DO and Rand are equals unable to beat one another, so Rand forces the DO back into his prison where he is also locked up too.  This would change the wheel and the pattern because now instead of just the DO, you have both good and bad working in equal unison.  This would be  the Breaking of the World that was prophesied.  Saidin and Saidar would actually strengthen now becoming as strong as back in the Age of Legends.

I know there are a lot of holes in this, but I think something similar will happen...

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JCHancey

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #181 on: January 16, 2009, 04:31:45 PM »
I agree partly with what you said, but I don't agree with the One Power being gone from the world.  RJ had plans to revisit the world and write other trilogies, so I don't think that he would've planned that for the ending.

Quote
Furthermore, Rand will want to prevent the DO from tainting the power again. It's my guess that he will use the power in combination with Nynaeve (or someone else, just to make sure we've got both halves of the power) to seal the DO.

I think that instead of Nynaeve it would be Egwene because in the beginning of the series there was a prophecy about those to being connected but not how they thought they would be.

I have often wondered where Padan Fain fits into this series he was one of the first bad guys introduced in the series, and reappears every so often.  I think that Rands battle will take place on two levels, physical and spiritual.  I think that the DO will possess Padan Fain and battle Rand, where Lews Therin finally takes control of Rand.  Fain kills Rand.  Rands three woman will stand over and morn Rand.  Fain starts killing everyone except Mat and maybe a few others.

I know that the ending to the Great Hunt contradicts what I'll be predicting next, but I think that it is still possible in some way...All is lost the DO has won... Mat for what ever reason finds the Horn of Valere blows it and resurrects all the dead characters... We then find out that the dead are actually the heroes from the Age of Legends.  Rand stikes down Fain and their battle continues on a spiritual realm. 

Rand is able to bridge the gap between Saidar and Saidin and gives that ability to others fighting.  Now the DO and Rand are equals unable to beat one another, so Rand forces the DO back into his prison where he is also locked up too.  This would change the wheel and the pattern because now instead of just the DO, you have both good and bad working in equal unison.  This would be  the Breaking of the World that was prophesied.  Saidin and Saidar would actually strengthen now becoming as strong as back in the Age of Legends.

I know there are a lot of holes in this, but I think something similar will happen...

Fain was a faithful hound, I'm assuming he'll have another role but I think that his biggest was to cut Rand with the Dagger. It'd be funny if he fell into the "hole" where the DO is with the choden'kal (forgive my spelling) or some other powerful sa'angrael :P. I don't think that Saidin and Saidar will be bridged because this has happened before, probably countless amounts of times, and that hasn't happened. Rand lives on because of the vision Min has of him with a beggars cane, unless this will happen before the ending I'll stick with the bodyswap idea that I've grown more fond of :D
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Shaggy

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #182 on: January 16, 2009, 05:10:07 PM »
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe we have been forgetting a rather large piece of the puzzle in this discussion–the Pattern. Are the changes in the world happening because the Dark One is touching the material world? Or is he touching the Pattern? What if the reason the Dark One is able to touch the world is that the Pattern is slowly unraveling and this causes the Seals to weaken? And, we don't even really know what the Pattern is. Is it created by the Creator (:P)? Is it run by the Dark One? Is the Pattern itself a heretofore untapped force/power? I myself think the Pattern is a very important and worthwhile subject to talk about….
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #183 on: January 16, 2009, 05:27:26 PM »
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe we have been forgetting a rather large piece of the puzzle in this discussion–the Pattern. Are the changes in the world happening because the Dark One is touching the material world? Or is he touching the Pattern? What if the reason the Dark One is able to touch the world is that the Pattern is slowly unraveling and this causes the Seals to weaken? And, we don't even really know what the Pattern is. Is it created by the Creator (:P)? Is it run by the Dark One? Is the Pattern itself a heretofore untapped force/power? I myself think the Pattern is a very important and worthwhile subject to talk about….

Well, isnt it the creator made the Wheel, and the wheel spins out the pattern? I think that's how it goes.

But you do bring up a good point. Are the strange things happening because the DO is touching the world, because the pattern says so, or are they happening because the DO isn't touching the world, but the *PATTERN*.

This makes a signifigant difference because the former means everything is going "according to plan" and the latter means that the DO is directly screwing up the plan.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #184 on: January 16, 2009, 05:33:13 PM »
I've also had a thought.… (Well, obviously, but this is a new one. :P) Each being's life is a different thread in the Pattern, correct? And each thread can be "snipped.…" So does the Dark One have a thread? And, if so, can it be "snipped?"
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #185 on: January 16, 2009, 05:42:40 PM »
I believe that the changes are due to the DO touching the material world. Several characters are quoted as saying something along the lines of "The seal is weaking thus leading to him being able to influence our world." I don't think that even the DO have the power to actually touch the pattern.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #186 on: January 16, 2009, 05:45:28 PM »
Madness, that sort of lends support to my point… you say that you
Quote
don't think that even the DO have the power to actually touch the pattern.
. Take a step back and really think about what you're saying. The Dark One doesn't have the power to touch the Pattern. So if the Dark One, one of the most evil, insanely powerful beings in the world cannot affect the Pattern…then wouldn't that mean that the Pattern is an entity in of itself? That it is all-powerful? Just a thought.…
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #187 on: January 16, 2009, 06:19:35 PM »
Madness, that sort of lends support to my point… you say that you
Quote
don't think that even the DO have the power to actually touch the pattern.
. Take a step back and really think about what you're saying. The Dark One doesn't have the power to touch the Pattern. So if the Dark One, one of the most evil, insanely powerful beings in the world cannot affect the Pattern…then wouldn't that mean that the Pattern is an entity in of itself? That it is all-powerful? Just a thought.…

I think I see where you are trying to go with this. However, I wouldn't consider the Pattern an entity at all. The Pattern is just the  term for the predetermined fate of an age determined by the Wheel. The Wheel was put in place by the Creator, which is powered by saidin and saidar, to "weave" how each age will come to pass. The Creator is the only thing that can be considered all-powerful.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #188 on: January 16, 2009, 07:52:26 PM »
I see that. However, then the question turns to the Creator–can he influence the world like the Dark One? Is he helping out Rand & Co.? I'm just wondering exactly where the Creator and the Pattern fit into all of this.…And if the Creator created the Pattern, then he must have created the Dark One, too, no? So why?
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #189 on: January 16, 2009, 08:09:48 PM »
I see that. However, then the question turns to the Creator–can he influence the world like the Dark One? Is he helping out Rand & Co.? I'm just wondering exactly where the Creator and the Pattern fit into all of this.…And if the Creator created the Pattern, then he must have created the Dark One, too, no? So why?

I believe it was explicitly said that the creator created the world, then left mortals to their own devices. He probably *CAN* influence the world, but isn't, i think.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #190 on: January 16, 2009, 08:15:34 PM »
Does the Creator influence the world directly? No...no I don't think so. However I believe he does in an indirect manner. It's evident that the Creator is a benevolent being and thus does not wish the DO to win and destroy all he's created so he imbues the good guys, Rand and co., with certain powers over the pattern. The powers I refer are that Rand, Mat, and Perrin, your three main good guys if you will, are taveren. Now they can't use that power conciously but it definately aids them when the really need it, for example, Mat's "luck". Assuming the creator is omniscient as well he gave them just enough pull over the pattern to aide them in their battle with the forces of evil.

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #191 on: January 16, 2009, 08:30:58 PM »
The Dark One and the Creator exist outside of the pattern, but they do have influence.  The DO's influence is related to the size of the bore in the Pattern that imprisons him.  His touch is more direct, and he may well be slowly destroying the Age Lace;  he is definitely affecting the normal cycles of the world.  The Creator has a more indirect approach.  He spins out the souls of his most powerful channelers, as well as those with important Talents that help the cause of good.  Using T'averen is the best example.  The Pattern is actually changed by the actions of an individual, and this helps achieve the goals the Creator wants.  Ironically, chaotic change seems to be necessary for good to win.  What you should realize about the DO's influence is that his ulitmate goal is the destruction of all the Creator made.  All the Darkfriends, especially the Chosen, are being duped.  Shai'tan won't remake the world if he wins, he will unmake it.

To answer why the Dark One exists at all, it is balance.  The Universe needs balance, so there must be evil.  One side can supress the other to an extent, but it all seems to balance out in the end.  Comparing the age of legends to the current age is proof of that balance.  No war, very little crime, and a Utopian society during AoL, changes to hell on earth in just a few years, and ends up a constant struggle for millenia afterwards.  So, in the end, neither side ever wins outright, they each get their turn holding the greater influence.  
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #192 on: January 16, 2009, 10:55:16 PM »
Now we have arrived at the eternal question: WHY?? WHY did the Creator create this world and then leave it alone? WHY does the Creator just destroy the Dark One if he wants to? WHY, WHY, WHY?!?!?!?

Would you read the series if he did?

"Page 1: The creator destroyed the dark one. The end." :P

Also, why question WHY a deity/supreme being does what they do? We probably don't understand their reasonings, as our puny mortal brains can't comprehend them. Also, what if he is doing it just to see what happens? i.e.: "I'm going to create this world, give that jerk a little bit of access to it, and see what happens! This'll be fun!"

I know i totally would :P
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #193 on: January 16, 2009, 11:15:02 PM »
Haha, I know. I was just putting it out there.

But it sort of is the eternal question of the genre…to me, anyways.  :P
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #194 on: January 16, 2009, 11:36:28 PM »
Haha, I know. I was just putting it out there.

But it sort of is the eternal question of the genre…to me, anyways.  :P

I think that question extends out of that genre and far beyond works of fiction and into the world of religion. The problem of evil in a world created by a benevolent deity. That's probably what Jordan was going for as a lot of his work is tied in with a ton of Christian theology.
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