Poll

Do you think that many of the major characters will be killed in "A Memory of Light?"

All of them (Rand included)
4 (6.8%)
Only one or two
27 (45.8%)
Only (all of) the bad guys
6 (10.2%)
They'll all survive (not really possible)
1 (1.7%)
Only Rand and the bad guys
21 (35.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: A Memory of Light  (Read 88877 times)

Comfortable Madness

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #420 on: February 25, 2009, 05:59:45 PM »
I hate to be mister gloom and doom, but Rand's living could merely be his life given up for his cause, or more likely his bloodline continuing...I personally think he will somehow come back... but there still is the posibility of him not. ???


Yeah, you could definately be right about that, especially since Rand symbolizes Jesus Christ in so many ways. Such as, he is the savior reborn, the wound in his side, the crown of swords(thorns), etc..... So, yeah he could die and maybe "live" on somwhere else such as Tel'aran'rhiod.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 06:01:19 PM by Comfortable Madness »
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar

melbatoast

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #421 on: February 25, 2009, 06:09:48 PM »
Min had a viewing that Aviendha is going to have Rand's babies and that hasn't happened yet, so that will have to happen soon if Rand is going to end up dead. Just a thought.
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Comfortable Madness

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #422 on: February 25, 2009, 06:30:20 PM »
Min had a viewing that Aviendha is going to have Rand's babies and that hasn't happened yet, so that will have to happen soon if Rand is going to end up dead. Just a thought.

True but Min also knows that there will be something odd about the 4 children she will have with Rand. Winters Heart chap. 12 "Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd."
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar

happyman

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #423 on: February 25, 2009, 07:30:49 PM »
Being careful and a blanket decision to ignore everything they say are different things. Also, everyone is irrational about one thing or another.

Especially when many of the things they do say are correct and verified in the real world.

LTT has proven reliable when it comes to using Saidin, teaching Rand techniques and new weaves.  He is correct when he remembers the face and crimes of the forsaken.  He says Saidin is clean.  This can't be wiped out by just saying "But he's mad!"  He is clearly not completely mad, whatever that would mean.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #424 on: February 25, 2009, 11:19:54 PM »
Being careful and a blanket decision to ignore everything they say are different things. Also, everyone is irrational about one thing or another.
He says Saidin is clean.  This can't be wiped out by just saying "But he's mad!"  He is clearly not completely mad, whatever that would mean.

When exactly did he say that? I can't actually remember him saying that, although everyone seems to assume he did. Does anyone know?
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #425 on: February 26, 2009, 12:01:05 AM »
Being careful and a blanket decision to ignore everything they say are different things. Also, everyone is irrational about one thing or another.
He says Saidin is clean.  This can't be wiped out by just saying "But he's mad!"  He is clearly not completely mad, whatever that would mean.

When exactly did he say that? I can't actually remember him saying that, although everyone seems to assume he did. Does anyone know?


Lews Therin mutters "it is clean" several times in CoT chapter 24.
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #426 on: February 26, 2009, 05:50:45 PM »
In addition to the fact that all crazy people have lucid moments, Ishy healed LTT before his death and with the removal of the taint he should have started some form of recovery. I think its pretty easy to say he is a reliable source on things of AoL and that he's so bloody depressed over Illana and that just gives a greater appearance of insanity.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #427 on: February 27, 2009, 06:46:27 PM »
The plot between LTT and Rand is realy a funny one. LTT think Rend is a mad voice in his head, and Rand think LTT is a mad voice in his head.
I dont think LTT is mad anymore, he did get healed before he did die, but he is/was a very sad man, so sad that he think he is crazy and have a voice in the head (Rand). I f you think about it, he did hear voices before he was healed (lanfear did say that male channelers did that before the madness did take them) so its not strange that he still think he is mad and refuse to "talk" to the voice (Rand).

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #428 on: February 28, 2009, 07:34:20 AM »
REALLY late to this discussion and not sure if my theory is someone elses or not (read upto page 8 before posting this).

Rand is meant to live and too die, Logain gains glory by walking over Rand's body, three women are crying over Rand's body and the Seanchen women who's name slips my mind is to help Rand die.

My theory is this.

Mazrim Taim confronts Rand and the Seanchen women, he attacks the Seanchen women and Rand cannot grasp Saidin, he dies because he can't have another women dead because of him. Logain proceeds to fight Taim, Aviendha, Elayne and Min are all crying over Rand's dead body during this time.

Logain eventually uses balefire and kills Taim thus resurrecting Rand though minus LTT. That would explain in my mind how all of Min's viewings happen. Just occurred to me reading this thread, and it wouldn't really surprise me to see something along those lines occur. As Rand dies and lives, Logain gains glory, the Seanchen women helps Rand die, and the three women over Rand's body all happen.

This idea is nice in that it does include a lot of what NEEDS to happen from prophecies/visions etc.

BUT I don't like it because I think the whole "living, dying, living" thing would be SOOOOO cheap if Balefire was used again.

We've already seen it done multiple times . . . especially in Fires of Heaven when Rand balefires the Dark Hounds to save Matt and then balefires Rahvin to save his forces.

It's just too easy and too pat I feel.

And Rand's death should come in the final confrontation with the Dark One, not some Dreadlord flunkie like Mazrim Taim.  I think he WILL die but it will be a lot more clever twist with him coming back.

The key and I've been harping on this for close to 20 years now is that LEWS THERIN must die and WANTS to die.  Right now, there is really no hope here for Rand as the situation exists because even if he wins and kicks hiney he is still stuck with Lews Therin in his head.

For him to have a happy ending, he HAS to get rid of Lews Therin.  For the prophecies to be fulfilled and for ultimate victory, Lews Therin needs to go and I think the only way to do it is for Rand . . . perhaps controlled by Lews Therin's soul to "die." 

This will seemingly give the Dark One and the forces of evil ultimate victory.  THEN, in a great twist no ones sees coming (except us of course) The Dragon RETURNS, this time with Rand's soul and victory is snatched from the jaws of defeat.

Remember that the stakes in this one should be very, very high unless Jordan changed his mind in the writing of the series (which is very possible of course).  The Dark One and Ishamael DOES NOT want the cycle to be replayed again and again and again.  From Eye of the World, the goal here is to BREAK the Wheel of Time, SLAY the Great Serpent.  They want to WIN FOR GOOD. 

This is a key, key, key statement because the ONLY way to win for good is to change things up somehow so that things don't repeat.  But in doing so, by definition, the Dark One and Ishamael also open up the possibility that they can be destroyed permanently as well. 

I would personally be a bit disappointed if A Memory of Light simply presents the Dark One being defeated and then we do it all again in 7 Ages, etc, etc, etc.  It reeks too much of Stephen King's The DArk Tower when we learn that Roland just loops back to The Gunslinger again over and over and over again.  Even there though, the final end hints that that repetitious cycle will eventually be broken.

I want the same for the ending to The Wheel of Time.  That's why I think the last book is going to be so long and so complicated.  There needs to be a LOT of metaphysical explanation for this Tarmon Gaidon to be any different from the 8 billion previous Tarmon Gaidons that's been replayed before with the spinning of the Wheel . . .

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #429 on: February 28, 2009, 07:32:29 PM »
Quote
Quote from: melbatoast on February 25, 2009, 12:09:48 PM
Min had a viewing that Aviendha is going to have Rand's babies and that hasn't happened yet, so that will have to happen soon if Rand is going to end up dead. Just a thought.

True but Min also knows that there will be something odd about the 4 children she will have with Rand. Winters Heart chap. 12 "Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd."
I always assumed that meant they were going to be channelers, or maybe ta'veren. But I don't know.…
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #430 on: March 03, 2009, 10:12:43 PM »
While channelers and even more so Tav'vern are rare they aren't odd they have several an age atleast... I assume they have a forgotten talent or something unexpected. :-*
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #431 on: March 03, 2009, 10:53:26 PM »
Yes, I see your point…but 1) I don't think Ta'veren (at least powerful ones) are so common, and 2) I don't think they were described as 'odd'; I'm pretty sure they were described as 'strange.'
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #432 on: March 07, 2009, 09:02:02 AM »

I would personally be a bit disappointed if A Memory of Light simply presents the Dark One being defeated and then we do it all again in 7 Ages, etc, etc, etc.  It reeks too much of Stephen King's The DArk Tower when we learn that Roland just loops back to The Gunslinger again over and over and over again.  Even there though, the final end hints that that repetitious cycle will eventually be broken.

I want the same for the ending to The Wheel of Time.  That's why I think the last book is going to be so long and so complicated.  There needs to be a LOT of metaphysical explanation for this Tarmon Gaidon to be any different from the 8 billion previous Tarmon Gaidons that's been replayed before with the spinning of the Wheel . . .

Dennis

im pretty sure RJ said that this wasnt going to be different from any other turning of the wheel

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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #433 on: March 07, 2009, 05:57:01 PM »
But…if it's not…then wouldn't this just be 'not the [end].…But it was [an] ending.' (–Crossroads of Twilight, Robert Jordan)? And…that would kind of suck, right? There has to be SOMETHING different.
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Re: A Memory of Light
« Reply #434 on: March 07, 2009, 06:31:10 PM »
But…if it's not…then wouldn't this just be 'not the [end].…But it was [an] ending.' (–Crossroads of Twilight, Robert Jordan)? And…that would kind of suck, right? There has to be SOMETHING different.

In a sense, I think that RJ is breaking a fantasy trope here, one that everybody's become attached to.  It's the idea of Good ultimately beating Evil for reals this time.

On the other hand, I think it's the right thing to do in this case.  I suspect that, yes, the DO will break free in seven ages, just like he always has.  Nothing different.  The details will be a surprise, though.
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