A Memory of Light

[darxbane]

Well, isn't that a loaded question, Sarah!  However, seeing as neither of them are human, it is a moot point.  RJ has, on several occaisions, taken time to remind his readers that the DO is not human, and shouldn't be given human characteristics.

[Eerongal]

Rand's and Elayne's! TIME PARADOX!!!! :O

Which one's the boy and which one's the girl?   

they're both male AND female! Plot twist! :O

Akin to Hel from norse mythology, they each have differing left and right halves of their body, together having one whole female and one whole male among them!
[/Eero's crazy theories]

also: If any of this actually proves true even though i'm joking, I am TOTALLY reserving the right to say "I called it"

[Shaggy]

No…maybe the father is like this ultra-powerful, mega-important guy who we meet in the last book.…And in the end he dies and Rand becomes him to continue the cycle, and then Aviendha is reincarnated as his co-ultra-powerful-mega-important wife to give birth to the Creator and the Dark One, who are twin boys but the Creator is like three minutes older than the Dark One so he gets more power.…Wow this is weird.

Just a little off-topic story: I have a friend who has a twin brother and she came out 45 minutes before the other twin…isn't that crazy??

Maybe they're like Hermes is often depicted…having at least one sexual organ of each sex.…

[CSmythe]

As far as it goes I am pretty sure that the Creator and the Dark One are brothers. At least in the metaphysical sense, they are equal and opposite halves of thing.

The Creator bound the Dark One at the begining of time but the Dark One is the one who can finally stop the wheel turning if he ever does get free.

Also my pet theory, and sorry if this has been stated already, I didn't have time to read the whole thread, is that at the end of the Last Battle the Dragon must sacrafice himself and take the DO into himself, then trap himself outside of the turning of the wheel. Basically at the end of it all Rand will become the new DO and Lews Therrin will finally be able to be released but it is that binding of himself to the DO that sticks him in the reincarnation cycle.

But then again I have had that idea since I read the first book for the first time and I was about 10 so maybe it makes no sense now.

It could also explain the Taint on the True Source as well assuming that Lews Therrin was channeling at the time that he became the DO that evil could have been an unitentional backwash across the Source. Perhaps if Rand is not channeling at the time he makes the same sacrafice then the Source will remain pure since there is no open conduit to it.

[Shaggy]

I hope the Creator guy is explained a bit in AMoL…is he just a super-powerful channeler? Or does h have God-like powers, like in 'Bruce Almighty?' 

[darxbane]

Ummm....The Creator IS God.  He is not actually a "he" at all, but a supernatural entity, and the DO is his opposite. 

The male half of the power was tainted because the DO was able to "touch" it while the seals were being embued.  My theory is that, had both Saidin and Saidar been used to seal the bore, the DO would not have been able to taint either half, and the seal would have been complete. 

[happyman]

Before the speculation starts getting too wild, I would like to note that RJ officially stated that this turning of the wheel---this time when the Dragon fights against the DO---is not unique or special in any way from any other turning.  These events (or ones whose Age Lace was very similar) have all happened before and will all happen again (at least once, at any rate).  This means that any possible futures must maintain the cosmological status quo: the Dark One will still exist, probably sealed off from creation but still there to be found again when the Age of Legends rolls back.  The Creator will still not be interfering, allowing his creations to protect themselves if they will.  The Dragon will continue his everlasting battle will the Dark One.  Any crazy theories that break this are, well, just crazy theories.

[melbatoast]

I agree, happyman. That's what Herid Fel (is that his name? the philosopher guy) told Rand. Therefore, there had to be a way to cleanse saidin. I think that carries over to the DO's prison as well. It will have to be remade completely, not just patched again, likely using both saidin and saidar.

[Andrew the Great]

I think that the only way to re-seal the bore fully would be to use both choeden kal (sp?), which is kind of impossible since one is now dead. So, I like this remaking thing.

Also, another possibility that has been brought up is that Rand kills the Dark One but someone else replaces the Dark One immediately after due to the need of the pattern to have a Dark One. I think it's needlessly complex, but I haven't seen anyone prove it wrong yet, so...

[TMan]

I don't think the DO can be killed, neither do I think that it is possible for some humanoid to take its place.

Furthermore, since the Choedal Kan where created once and now one is destroyed, it is possible in coming ages to create something similar again. I also though that, even though the DO was sealed away/imprisoned somehow every age, this was done with varying success. After all, in the Age of Legends the DO was hardly able to touch the world at all, people didn't even remember his existence or the bore would not have been created (at least not unintentionally). Another thing about people not remembering the DO is that chances are that the AoL was either a lot longer than the current age is, or the age before that was very different from the current one. I can't recall if there is a mention of the transition to the AoL from the age before that, it would be interesting to know how that happened.

This means that in the "last" battle the DO will somehow be sealed away or be imprisoned again, whatever the means. If this would not happen the DO would destroy the world utterly and completely.

[douglas]

I am not certain the female Choedan Kal was actually destroyed.  All we really know is that the access ter'angreal for it melted and that the actual statue glowed very brightly.  There were quite a number of access ter'angreal originally.  One piece of a broken one was discovered I think in the Tarasin Palace (my memory's a little vague on that), and it's quite possible another intact one will be discovered somewhere else.

There are a few hints that the age before the Age of Legends is the present day modern world.  Two of them that I remember off the top of my head, both tales mentioned by Thom, are Mosk and Merk, two giants that battled with spears of fire that reached around the world (Mosk = Moscow, Merk = America, spears = ICBMs), and Anna the Wise Counselor (Ann Landers?).

[darxbane]

Sorry Douglas, but the female Choeden kahl was destroyed.  The destruction of the Sa'Angreal on Tremalking was what caused the people there to commit mass suicide, as it signaled the "end of the Age of Illusion".  I don't think it is needed anyway.  If all the Aes Sedai and Asha'man linked to form one tremendous circle, the power would be significant.  It only took 100 individual men to partially close the bore.  I would think that a combined force of 200 men and women channelers would finish the job.

[douglas]

According to both my memory and the WoT wiki, it was the sa'angreal glowing, not being destroyed, that caused the mass suicide.  Glowing just means they are in non trivial use, not that they are suffering overload.  I remember some mention of a reaction to the male one lighting up like the sun for Rand and Asmodean's battle, and that one still works fine.

[Eerongal]

According to both my memory and the WoT wiki, it was the sa'angreal glowing, not being destroyed, that caused the mass suicide.  Glowing just means they are in non trivial use, not that they are suffering overload.  I remember some mention of a reaction to the male one lighting up like the sun for Rand and Asmodean's battle, and that one still works fine.

According to chapter summaries of KoD CH 22 from library.tarvlaon.net:

"Cemaeille din Selaan Long Eyes enters the cabin with bad news. She informs the women that three weeks ago the Amayar began asking the gift of passage to each of the Sea Folk islands, and all of the Amayar left the Sea Folk ports. When the Sea Folk noticed that none had returned, people were sent to Amayar villages. All the Amayar were dead or dying. They had all poisoned themselves in the belief that the end of Illusion had come and that it was the end of time; this was signaled by the melting of The Great Hand on Tremalking. None of the Amayar could be saved. Zaida says ships must go immediately to every island to see if anyone is still alive."

The great hand, of course, belonged to the Choedan Kal. The access key as well has melted.

Edit: According to WH Ch. 35 from Timna's POV (AkA, random Tremalking inhabitant),  the people took the glowing as the sign to start the mass suicides. It's mentioned later that it MELTED, in KoD CH 22 from  Harine din Togara's PoV.

[happyman]

I think that the only way to re-seal the bore fully would be to use both choeden kal (sp?), which is kind of impossible since one is now dead. So, I like this remaking thing.

Also, another possibility that has been brought up is that Rand kills the Dark One but someone else replaces the Dark One immediately after due to the need of the pattern to have a Dark One. I think it's needlessly complex, but I haven't seen anyone prove it wrong yet, so...

There's two different categories:  Proven wrong, and remotely likely.  If this book was by, say, Brandon Sanderson, this outcome would not be unreasonable, all things considered.  In RJ's work, though, it seems to go against some very deep grain when it comes to the nature of the Creator and the DO---the two of them seem to be forces outside the nature of the pattern itself, untouchable from within it.  The DO seems to have the Creator's power but very different motivations.  The standard Randland catechism, the descriptions of the bore, RJ's statements on the matter---they all combine to create an atmosphere in which anything besides saving the world for the moment from a perpetual, self-existent threat is unlikely.