Author Topic: Crystalheart, Chapter 2  (Read 4036 times)

Reaves

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Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« on: December 16, 2008, 01:37:54 AM »
Yay! Round 2!

I want to ask is this too soon for a fight of this caliber? Am I making promises to the reader that this story is all action and no depth?
                                
Also, I tried some experimentation with my sentence structure. I am concerned with one sentence in particular: it's basically...well, its got lots of commas. What I want to know is, did you notice it? If you did, did it jar you out of the story? Did it work?

Thanks for reading!

                                                                                                                                                                                     edited for clarity
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 04:09:26 AM by Reaves »
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

AvalonDreamer

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 06:12:04 AM »
Reaves, you submitted this a cycle too early, mate (unless you got permission...?).
My friends held an intervention, to stop my ridiculous plans to take over the world (Jake ended up in the hospital). I convinced them to let me take over other worlds though.

*Evil grin*

RIP: James Oliver Rigney, Jr.

jjb

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 08:35:56 AM »
Birthright and Aspirations also gave out round 2 today. I think it was agreed that people could submit again if they wanted since once a month is only twelve chapters a year, but I could be wrong.

Reaves

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 01:19:25 PM »
I apologize if this isn't the case but I thought we agreed in the "What would you like to do" thread that we would try a "do what you want" strategy where people could submit on both the 1st and the 15th. Also as already mentioned two other stories have been continued.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

jjb

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2008, 03:28:44 PM »
Sorry to say I was disappointed with this chapter. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't as good as the first. That could be because it is less polished than the first or it could just be because the whole crystalheart thing isn't new any more. The super crystalheart was a surprising twist in the story and I have no idea how you're going to bring the two mains back from the dead...

A few inconsistencies I noticed:
Main Character A(forget his name) was awakened up by screams and explosions? but later on it says that he notices people finally getting out of their tents and engaging the enemy.

Also, Main A and Main D seemed to have no problem with all the attacking warriors in the camp, but when they were attacked by 18? warriors in the super crystalheart's home they were overwhelmed  way too easily for me. I understand that they were probably in a more confined space and were attacked by all at once, but it seemed way too easy for me.

Good cliffhanger at the end, I guess, though we know Main A is somehow going to come back to life or we just switch to another viewpoint and then we'll stop caring about Main A 'cause we never got to know him.

Reaves

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2008, 08:36:20 PM »
Sorry to say I was disappointed with this chapter. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't as good as the first. That could be because it is less polished than the first or it could just be because the whole crystalheart thing isn't new any more.

Can you go a little more in-depth on this? Even if you can't tell me exactly what you didn't like, can you tell me which general sections didn't vibe with you?
The super crystalheart was a surprising twist in the story and I have no idea how you're going to bring the two mains back from the dead...
Nobody is too dead for a little divine intervention.
This chapter is one where if you were reading it in a book, I'd hope you'd rush to turn the page and find out what happens next! In this format it doesn't work quite so well I suppose.
I just want to let you know though, I have a well-thought out reason for why what happens next happens next. You don't find it out for quite a while, definitely not in the next chapter, but it is there.

I do agree that this chapter is not as good as the first. But I really need to know why. Tell me, please!!
As always, thanks for your thoughts.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Frog

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2008, 09:48:21 PM »
I wasn't here for the first round, so this may not be the best critique, but I will do my best!

First off, I liked it. If this is a sample of what's to come, it may be a bit too bloody for my personal taste, but I found a lot of other good things to latch on to.

The magic system was intriguing, but beware of the dreaded info dump. If this is your first draft it is perfectly acceptable to lay that stuff all out so you know, but you need to space it out for your reader and find ways to show (rather then just tell) the essentials. Like when you have the prisoner bonded with the stone and killed. We don't necessarily need to know how the crystalhearts are usually made, just discribe what your evil dude is doing now so we know that it is, well... evil. Your MC, Aermyst, seems very well informed... it could work, depending on where you plan on going with all this, but usually it is helpful if there is at least someone on the team that is completely clueless, like the audience, so we can learn with him. Especially this early in the game.

Some technical advice... there is a lot of action in this chapter. Try to make your sentences concise and maybe even a little choppy to convey that. Like this one: "His oncoming blow swept up in a curving arc that would have taken off Aermyst's leg at the knee, if he had not frantically turned the blade to parry from a direction he never expected to be attacked from: directly below. " could easily be made shorter or into a couple sentences if you just stayed with Aermyst rather then making judgments about his attacker's state of mind (he never would have expected...).

Oh, and another personal preference thing... I find that chapters that start out with quotes from an old text are well...annoying and boring and I don't always read them. You wouldn't be the first author to do it, but I wish you wouldn't. I really don't care to read a text book from their past, especially at the beginning before I'm throughly invested in the world (I have enough trouble reading my own text books :) ). Flashback/vision mode is a bit better, but mostly I want to know what is happening now.

Characters were good. I liked them both. Too bad they're dead... but I guess that's one way to end a book.
(j/k I'll be looking for more. :) )
I've already conquered the world. This is exactly the way I want it.

Necroben

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2008, 01:35:53 AM »

Can you go a little more in-depth on this? Even if you can't tell me exactly what you didn't like, can you tell me which general sections didn't vibe with you?

I do agree that this chapter is not as good as the first. But I really need to know why. Tell me, please!!
As always, thanks for your thoughts.

Well I'll give it a try.  One thing I noticed was the way action was worded sometimes.  In the beginning when Aeyrmyst comes out of the tent and is almost run over, I kept thinking Where are they?  (In relation to one another and the tent)

Quote
"The warrior had been trained well; instead of trying to scramble up and fight face to face, he simply swung his sword at Aermyst."

This might be nit-picking, but is that possible?  Two people laying on the ground and one "swung" his sword at the other laying next to/on top of him.  Two sentences later Aermyst leapt to the ground.  I thought he was on the ground already.  Anyway, I stopped to think instead of going with the flow.

Quote
"His longblade went through the throat of the first man.  He fell choking.  Aermyst withdrew his blade..."

My first though was; "Who fell choking?"  I see that it is not Aermyst, now, but my initial picture was confused.

Quote
"... shoving his blade through the man's heart. He convulsed as he died."

Same here as well.  I know I have an unholy love of commas, but I think that could clean it up a lot.  There are just too many He, His, and Him references that it can become rather confusing in a fast paced mčleč.

Quote
"A heartstone granted a man incredible strength and resilience did not make him immune."
                                                                                 but       {or}      , but 
I was a little thrown off by this sentence.  I would suggest the above.                                                                                 

In the first 3rd of the chapter you used a lot of musical references, but that all dropped away completely afterward.  I had thought it a foreshadowing of some kind of musical ability.

It just seems as though there are some little things throughout the chapter that take away from the whole.  But that's just my opinion.  I loved the cliff-hanger and have already started thinking of all the ways you might use the Soulstone!  I can't wait to read more.
I don't suffer from insanity...  I enjoy every minuet of it!

It's ok to be strange, as long as it's on paper. :)

jjb

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2008, 03:47:30 AM »
Thanks, Necro, for answering for me. (no sarcasm)

Another weird action/placement thing was when Main A ran at the superhuman. For some reason I thought he was closer to the superhuman, but after Main A's been running a bit Main D starts running and he still gets there faster. Maybe I was wrong in their positionings, but that only shows that your writing wasn't very clear in that aspect.

Silk

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2008, 08:53:41 AM »
Yes, there was a general consensus that people who were ready could send out their submissions this cycle even if they’d done so last cycle. We’re fishing around for a solution to the “it’s going to take a damn long time to get your novel reviewed through RE” problem.

So. It didn’t really read like an infodump to me at the time – I think because it made sense to me that the chartacter might think of the things that were mentioned – but in retrospect you probably could trim some of it back a bit. Readers are happy to wait for more information.

My comments:

I wonder about the mystery figure’s armour. He has presumably heavy armour on his arms and shoulders, not really vital spots, but has his torso – with all sorts of vulnerable places – free so he can move unencumbered. I’m no expert on arms and armour, but this seems a little strange to me.

As much as I like the symphony metaphor, you’ve used the word itself two or three times in only a page or two. Maybe find another? (Of course, I say this, without being able to think of any direct synonyms at the moment.) Also, and this is picky and probably doesn’t really matter, but usually when talking about writers of symphonies you talk about the composer rather than the songwriter.

The “line of fire” that the mystery man draws across Dantes’s back is a great image, but I wonder why exactly it’s a line of fire, since he was using a blade.

“They fell slowly, agonizingly slowly, but everything else was quick.” Nice line.

You’ve done a really good job with these action scenes – very engaging.

Okay, so chapter two’s over. Well done. With you so far. Now, this is hard to comment on, because obviously I haven’t read the rest of it – but I am wondering about the rest of the story.  We’ve spent a lot of time with these two so far, and now it seems like they’re out of the picture for the rest of the story, so I’m wondering why we’ve spent so much time with them. It all depends on what you do from here, of course, but I was expecting these two to carry the story, and now, well, they’re obviously not. It’s fine to screw with our expectations a bit. But you do need to justify the time we’ve spent with these two.

If there are other point of view characters who have to carry the rest of the story, just having their POV inserted sooner could easily solve this problem. If it’s even a problem. It might not be. But I don’t know, and so it seemed worth mentioning.  (And now that I’ve read the discussion comments it seems irrelevant, but that was my reaction as a reader, anyway.)

Reaves

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2008, 11:29:25 PM »
I wonder about the mystery figure’s armour. He has presumably heavy armour on his arms and shoulders, not really vital spots, but has his torso – with all sorts of vulnerable places – free so he can move unencumbered. I’m no expert on arms and armour, but this seems a little strange to me.
I explain this a bit in chapter 4.
The “line of fire” that the mystery man draws across Dantes’s back is a great image, but I wonder why exactly it’s a line of fire, since he was using a blade.
Sorry but I don't quite understand what was confusing. It was supposed to be the silver-haired man cutting Dantes with his sword and blood is red, hence the line of "fire". It wasn't supposed to be literal fire; is that what didn't make sense?
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Silk

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2008, 06:51:48 PM »
Yes, I read that as  literal fire. Maybe becaues there was fire elsewhere in the camp. Or maybe it's just that you usually see descriptions like that applying to the point of view character, since it's a sensory image in a way.

Karl

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 08:58:48 AM »
Initially as I was reading this section I kept thinking to myself that I was going to be overly critical and harsh. Having read some of the other comments, perhaps I won't be.

First, I've got to say that you've got the story in there somewhere. But you have to find it! This has a lot of potential, but it really needs to be tightened up.

I thought the fights were overly long, redundant and unsatisfying. First the droves of mooks (let's just call them Kobolds, shall we?) that the heroes wade through without breaking a sweat, and then the boss monster shows up! Uh-oh!

Forgive me for asking, but have you ever studied martial arts/weapons combat/etc.? And I mean other than watching the Matrix trilogy? Research, my friend, research!

And what is black armor? Given most armor, plate or chain or whatever, it is not possible to drive a knife into someone's heart. And even with a half-asses gorget, the throat is protected from being slashed. More likely they would get stabbed in the armpit, back of the knee or in the groin, or have a blade slipped between the plates.

And they wouldn't need to kill everyone. a good dislocated shoulder or broken leg will stop a foe just as easily as decapitating them. And wrenching an arm around the wrong way would completely ignore whatever armor is worn.

I guess my point is that there needs to be just enough realism to make your fiction plausible. My suspension of disbelief failed.

At the bottom of page 8 you have your MC say "Enough." And I thought great! Time to move the story along. But again the two MCs plowed back in for some more of getting the kesters handed to them. "Enough" would have been a great point for that aukward conversation with the bad guy: "Who are you?"

"The heartcrystal is strong in this one, but he is not a crystalheart yet!" [Cue Imperial March].

Okay, the second half of the chapter is somewhat more compelling as it moves the story along. But why when the first MC gets free and them frees the other MC did they not just run for it? They could have outpaces any of the Kobalds in black armor (hey, if they wear blue cloaks are they cobalt Kobolds?).

Okay, let's see if we can edit this paragraph down to say the same thing, just in less words:
"He raised his sword one last time, preparing for another attack- and then a boot slammed into his face like white fire with a firmness that strongly resembled that of solid rock. He recoiled back, spitting blood, seeing stars- and then the silver-haired man continued his spin, slamming his heel into the side of Aermyst's head, this time blossoming entire spiral galaxies into his skull. He fell sideways."

The edit:
"Aermyst raised his sword one last time -- but a boot smashed into his face like white fire! He recoiled, seeing stars. And then his nemesis spun and slammed his heel into Aermyst's temple, entire spiral galaxies blooming in his skull. He fell sideways."

Hey, can one of you English majors explain the difference between  action words like "slammed" and "slamming"? My English theory is too old (Chaucer-ian, perhaps) and I can't remember the proper terms. What I can say is the former is more distinct than the later. Oh, and I would avoid using the same word "slam" in the same paragraph twice.

I think trimming the fights scene would help the pacing and keep the reader engaged (yeah, I started skimming after a while). And though fights can be fun to write, don't forget that it also needs to move the story along.

Good luck! Back to work!!
"When I came to this town five years ago I didn't have a nickle in my pocket. Now I have a nickle in my pocket."

Reaves

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 04:26:39 PM »
lol I guess that handily answers my first question, haha:
I want to ask is this too soon for a fight of this caliber? Am I making promises to the reader that this story is all action and no depth?

Thanks one again everyone for your honest (sometimes brutal) thoughts. I appreciate all of them and I think it will really help me to improve the story and this chapter in particular.

Karl as I think I've mentioned somewhere previously I've been taking foil fencing for about a year now. However, for anyone who is a fencer, you probably realize that it is not anything like the way actual combat really is. You are quite right about the armor, I completely forgot to factor that in to how they would fight.
Thanks for your suggestions about trimming the fights and adding in some conversation and questions to help introduce the plot and spice things up. I had wanted to avoid the silver-haired man saying much of anything to heighten his "mysteriousness" but I can see that isn't really going to work.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Karl

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Re: Crystalheart, Chapter 2
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2008, 06:19:24 PM »
Silence can be one sided. You could have your MCs start peppering the Silver-Haired Dude with questions that he only smirks or grimaces at.

Oh, and find a way to say "Silver-Haired Man" in a better way. Perhaps give him a nickname, like "Silvermane"? Trying to read "Silver-Haired Man" in every other sentence gets a bit repetitive.

If you have experience with fencing, then perhaps you need to interject some of the interplay of the blades themselves. Does a lunge knock the MC's blade off line? Do the quillons trap his blade (do their blades have quillons?)? I'm sure there's plenty of fencing terminology you could use. However, I would suggest using plain English versions of these terms, avoiding the French words often used with fencing (i.e. riposte) as this changes the narative voice.

Brutal we may be, but it is 'tough love.'
"When I came to this town five years ago I didn't have a nickle in my pocket. Now I have a nickle in my pocket."