Author Topic: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01  (Read 4943 times)

WEKM

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Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« on: December 01, 2008, 09:04:30 AM »
Thank you in advance for any help you can give. I hope you all enjoyed this.

maxonennis

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 04:59:22 PM »
I used to love reading superhero comic books—I’ve never been a fan of the movies—so when I read your email I decided that I wanted to read this first. I have to say that I’m a bit torn about the first chapter. On one hand I love your little plot twists, on the other I saw both coming a mile away. I assume that you wanted the reader to know about Blaster/Nobel before the reveal, however if you didn’t, what gave it away for me was when Nobel started giving blow for blow dialog about between a missing man, his dead family, and a dead man. Also Nobel was giving the emotional reactions of Blaster. Now, the Kevin/Robert connection was a bit more of a random guess (right before he’d looked at his tattoos, I’d guessed that he was a Powered, and right after he was shot I wondered if he was Blaster/Nobel’s son).

While I’m no the topic, I’m not good a guessing plot twists. I usually just set back and let the story come to me rather than try to guess twists, so if I do guess a plot twist right, it is usually because the author wanted the reader to. Take that for what it’s worth.

On to the superpowers; one of the main reasons that even as a child I’d stopped reading superhero comic was because too many superheroes seem too close to immortal. Many of them don’t ever seem to be matched against villains of equal abilities, or if the villain is as strong, then he’s stupid. I don’t know what to think about your character’s powers yet, but when I read that opening profile that says Blaster/Nobel is invulnerable, then some of that old prejudice starts to boil up.

I didn’t read the opening profile until I'd already read the chapter/story. I wanted to get into the story before getting documentation. I don’t know if others felt the same way, but that was my reaction.

Nobel, especially right at the opening, felt like a mix between Harry Dresden and the wizard Zan from the Sword of Truth. I like Harry, I never liked Zan he always seemed to take small common sense things overboard, and I felt a little bit of that with Nobel talking to Kevin/Robert about the chairs. Doing this once or twice wouldn’t bother me, but if it became epidemic as it did with Zan’s character, then I would put the book down—feels too preachy.

Those couple of things aside, I really enjoyed your story and look forward to reading the next chapter.
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Reaves

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 10:58:43 PM »
I too was a tad peeved that of the two superheros we've seen so far, both are immortal.

Also I completely agree with how the Commander fellow somehow knows word-for-word what Blaster said. I understand that seeing as he was Blaster he would know, but still. It threw me off.

Also the Yoda reference really threw me off.

I did really like the description of how the bullet went through Phoenix's body. Very, very cool, and probably something I would have considered impossible to describe in writing if I had seen it in a movie.

Overall it's looking pretty good! Keep it up!
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jjb

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008, 12:24:47 AM »
Yeah, i thought the Commander stating James' family's exact words was very strange.

Also, I don't see how Kevin figured out Nobel was James...

And when you said the mother and sister hadn't recovered yet, does that mean they're still alive?

Cruel, not crewel.  Since, not always sense.

Necroben

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2008, 02:53:14 AM »
I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said.

I for one loved it!  I'm very interested in seeing where you go from here (what type of villains you'll have)
Keep up the good work!
I don't suffer from insanity...  I enjoy every minuet of it!

It's ok to be strange, as long as it's on paper. :)

M

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2008, 05:19:00 AM »
To start off, I really like the story and your ideas on how to implement it are very solid. 

I guess I need a refresher on short stories, but is there a chapter 2?  Or is the whole thing done in one?  If so, you nailed it.  If not, then you need to save more for following chapters.  (I wouldn't put much stock in this advice as I'm not familiar with the short story environment).

I agree with the others, Nobel reveals detail upon detail of the events that leads you to realize that he is in fact Blaster, or at least knows him personally.  I think this gives away your plot twist entirely to early.  (Good plot twist mind you!).  The son is also a great twist.  I would like to see this go farther (if short stories allow for it).  Because of the shortness of the story, it feels very very rushed to me.  We jump into it almost forcefully (although I like the brief testing with the chair in the beginning). 

The idea is solid and I think it has lots of potential.  Good luck, hope this helps in some way.

Silk

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 09:42:35 AM »
I actually thought it was, and critiqued it as, a completed short story. In fact, I believe WEKM said something about it going into a short story contest. Or maybe I'm confused...

I didn't think it seemed rushed, and I didn't feel the plot twists were too predictable. I didn't see them coming (but I'm also not familiar with superhero story tropes. Does that matter?). Actually, I'm a little less certain about Kevin being Nobel's son. I didn't have a problem with it while reading, but thinking about it I do sort of have an "Of COURSE Kevin is his son" sort of reaction.

I'm just going to cut and paste my comments, they're not organized in anyway except as reader reactions. I just wrote things down as I went through the story.

I also let myself be picky because I you mentioned you were submitting it. My extensive comments don't mean I don't like the story, because I most certainly did. Also, I'm sorry this critique runs a little long:

You should probably format the report at the beginning differently. Just to make it clear that this isn’t prose, but is part of the story. (And I didn’t mind that it came right at the beginning of the story. I don’t know where else you’d put it, in fact.)

I like Nobel testing Kevin, but I’m not entirely sure that this is the place. It seemed a bit strange that he would grill someone who just walked into his office with a question. And then I wondered about it again when he made the remark about “that’s why I assigned you to go through those files”. Now it seems as if he assigned Kevin those files BECAUSE of his tendency to question. If that’s the case, shouldn’t he have tested him before he ever assgined him the files?

While telling Kevin about Blaster, Nobel switches suddenly to talking about the Patriot, and I’m not certain why. It seems a total nonsequitur when it isn’t. I think it’s only a problem because it takes a paragraph or tw, for him to make the connection.

Nobel’s remark about Madam Destiny stealing the “always in motion the future is” saying also seems out of place. Funny, but in the wrong spot.

The absolute detail Nobel is going into about the kidnapping of Blaster’s family also seems a bit out of place. I was willing to let it go by until Nobel started including the dialogue. I just can’t make that make sense. (Even assuming that Nobel knew Blaster, and later realizing that Nobel IS Blaster, I can’t make it make sense)

On the other hand, as I continue reading I see just why you wanted to give us the dialogue here. I think it is more effective this way, it’s just weird having Nobel say it.

Patriot told Blaster that his family wouldn’t last a tenth of four seconds. Yet his daughter still had time to call out, “Daddy, it hurts”.

Kevin’s textbook answer about the Kansas crater seems a bit like an information dump to me. I like the way the revelation was done though, you could probably fix this just by cutting out a bit of the detail there. The soil-into-glass bit, as cool as it was, could probably go.

I like the quick way Blaster finished off Patriot. Nobel giving the dialogue didn’t bug me as much this time. It still seems weird when I think about it, but didn’t drag me out of the story this time.

When Kevin asks if he can ask Nobel questions, Nobel goes off talking about how he’d be a hypocrite if he said no. Which is true, but it seems kinda like he went off on a rant.

I think you prepared us really well for the Nobel-as-Blaster revelation. As Nobel was talking, I kept getting the feeling that Nobel knew Blaster very well, but was still surprised. It does seem that Kevin had very little to go on in making that assumption, though. Of course, we get very little of Blaster’s emotional reaction, just his dialogue. Seeing Kevin process Nobel’s tone of voice, his gestures, and facial expressions, could probably go a long way towards making this seem more believable.

Oh. The point-of-view does skitter between Nobel and Kevin. I don’t think it’s a problem, didn’t mind it while I was reading it, but I do wonder – what would happen if you picked one or the other?

That's it from me. Finally, I know.

WEKM

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2008, 10:13:37 AM »

That's it from me. Finally, I know.

Actually, that was the type of point by point review I was hoping for. This has hardly been seen by anyone, so I knew it would be rough tossing it in here, but I needed to know where to put the polish to.
Also, your WordDoc Comments were very helpful. Thanks. Now I need to tear back into it and see what fiddly bits to throw out and which to punch up.

Also, let me apologize to everyone, I should have opened up and looked at the file before sending it as that was just my straight TXT file exported to Word, and it did need some more formatting. Totally my fault. And I absolutely PROMISE it won't happen again. Talk about opening the door into your own face.

Silk

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2008, 11:11:42 AM »
Haha. No worries - stuff like that happens.

Good to know I didn't go overboard. Indepth critiques are pretty much expected in university creative writing classes, and by now I know most of my classmates very well indeed, so I'm sort of used to going at people no holds barred...

WEKM

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 11:34:26 PM »
Works for me. Anything short of a false insulting of my heritage is fair game.
If it's a true factual insult of my heratige, game on.

Karl

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2008, 07:01:27 AM »
For starters, the Blaster dossier at the top reads like a Champions character stat sheet. I would suggest something less obvious as 'comic book' and more scientific analysis.  Instead of "doesn't appear to age" how about "gerio-stasis." I would also say his blood is flamable, not explosive. I hate to suggest techno-babble, but in this case it may work.

Despite what you are trying to do, I think Nobel over-explains things. Much of what he says about Kevin after he is shot but doesn't die again sounds like a grocery list of game statistics and not a real-world assessment of them. Besides, if Kevin has been with the Bureau for any significant length of time the terminology Nobel uses would be rather rudimentary. And by over-explaining you insult the intelligence of your readers.

Likewise, instead of having the characters say "yeah, my middle name is Nobel" you have the names given parenthetically:  Kevin, (actually Robert Kevin Mercer) rushed to and embraced his father, (James Nobel Mercer) and they both wept. Okay, after they hug I kinda figured out who each one was. The parentheses were a bit insulting.

The story in and of itself is fine. You just need to tighten up and streamline it a bit.
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Silk

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2008, 07:25:28 AM »
I didn't think the parentheses were insulting. I'd taken them as a point of emphasis, not the author-over explanining.

(Because, what would be the fun of a writing group if we all agreed with one another in our criticism?)

I think Karl has a good point in the main, though.

Karl

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 07:56:41 AM »
I felt insulted. I don't feel I needed that much information beating me over the head. I got it. Good. Move on!
"When I came to this town five years ago I didn't have a nickle in my pocket. Now I have a nickle in my pocket."

Karl

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 07:57:46 AM »
And even though Mommy and Daddy are fighting right now doesn't mean we don't both love our little WEKM!
"When I came to this town five years ago I didn't have a nickle in my pocket. Now I have a nickle in my pocket."

Silk

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Re: Choices (WEKM) Dec 01
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 08:13:42 AM »
XDD

What he said.

I actually liked the emphasis of the parentheses. I wonder if you would feel less offended by it if some of the other stuff was cleared up. Sometimes it's just a question of the straw that broke the camel's back, if you know what I mean.