Author Topic: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*  (Read 2674 times)

With Rye

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I was reading through the Q and A thread for Hero of Ages and Qarlin's first question—and Brandon subsequent answer—piqued my curiosity:

1) Who were Ruin and Preservation? I mean, when they died, they had bodies, like Vin. And you went as far as to describe their hair color (Red and Black, respectively). Preservation even had a prominent nose. Why describe their dead bodies, if they weren't at one time mortals themselves? They created humans, but were at one time human themselves?

2) I'm  sad Ten Soon never got to talk to Vin again, since it was apparent they both missed each other.

3) Lemme guess, the "Mistborn" following Vin was actually Ruin, since Elend never actually saw him, and he disappeared every time Vin got close? 4) Why did Ruin give off Allomantic Pulses? Because Preservation did and they're two sides of the same coin? Allomancy is of Preservation, so I figured that's why he did...

5) A modern world  update for a future mistborn trilogy prolly wouldn't involve as much metal, unless mistings were rare, which apparently will not be the case. I'm thinking more like plastics, ceramics, fiberglass, and silicon. I mean for cars and guns and all that.

Numbers added above by me.

1) RAFO.  (Sorry.)
2) Remember that TenSoon, with spikes, can communicate more easily with those on the other side....
3)  Yes.
4)  Manifestation of the awesome power he held, mixed with Vin's increased ability to sense these things.  Allomantic pulses are like a ripple of sound in the fabric of creation itself--the power of creation being used, creating a drum beat to those attuned to it.  Ruin created a similar beat when his conciousness was near.
5)  Yes and no.  For the rich, this would be an option.  But much like using metal weapons in the Mistborn world, it isn't always an option for everyone.  You will see both. 

Please speculate!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2008, 03:51:46 AM by ThankfulNess »

Chaos

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 08:44:24 PM »
Further in the spoiler thread, Brandon unveiled their names. Preservation is Leras (hence, its deific metal is Lerasium) and Ruin is Ati (as in, atium).
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happyman

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 03:18:45 AM »
Further in the spoiler thread, Brandon unveiled their names. Preservation is Leras (hence, its deific metal is Lerasium) and Ruin is Ati (as in, atium).

Yeah, but names aren't much.  The real question is---were they really human?  Or were they somehow shadows of something else? (I propose no theory on the subject myself, and would respectfully request to not be held to any of these musings as though I believed them with any real commitment.  I do not.)  If we accept that some of EUOL's other books occur in the same universe, humans seem to be a pretty common commodity, all the same but different (different magic, different skills, but still basically human).

I explicitly remember Ruin (OK, Ati) telling Vin that he and Leras had seen humans before, so something deeper is going on.

On a side note, anyone wanna bet that there are 16 shards?
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Shadowkiller

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 03:31:41 PM »
On a side note, anyone wanna bet that there are 16 shards?
I would bet against there being 16 shards.   Sazed said 16 was the number that Preservation used to let people know he was doing something.   There is no indication that the number 16 went above and beyond that.   Plus if there were 16, Sazed now brought the number down to 15 by absorbing two of them.

happyman

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 06:30:26 PM »
On a side note, anyone wanna bet that there are 16 shards?
I would bet against there being 16 shards.   Sazed said 16 was the number that Preservation used to let people know he was doing something.   There is no indication that the number 16 went above and beyond that.   Plus if there were 16, Sazed now brought the number down to 15 by absorbing two of them.

Au contraire.  Sazed said there was something very deep and fundamental about the number sixteen, something that related to the way the universe itself worked.  He said that Preservation used 16 because it was so fundamental to the way the world worked, Ruin couldn't counter it.  He said, in fact, that he didn't fully understand all the implications of 16, even with his expanded intellect.  Thus I feel that my statement is a solid speculation firmly based on canon.  If you wish a citation for this reference, I will  have to get it later.  It was one of the bumps after the Allomancy/Mist connection had been found.

As for Sazed absorbing two of them:  That doesn't change the number of powers, just the number of personalities controlling the powers.  I still suspect that there are sixteen powers, or shards.  If they are being recombined, then good for them.  They were, after all, apparently one once.
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DrakeSparda

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 06:38:11 PM »
i do not quite remember where... but i remember repeatedly seeing that there are only like 5 or 6 shards...  If i remember correctly Brandon eluded to that, however I could be remembering that being the number we've had some interaction with on some level, however I thought that was only 4.

Shadowkiller

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 06:48:30 PM »
Au contraire.  Sazed said there was something very deep and fundamental about the number sixteen, something that related to the way the universe itself worked.  He said that Preservation used 16 because it was so fundamental to the way the world worked, Ruin couldn't counter it.  He said, in fact, that he didn't fully understand all the implications of 16, even with his expanded intellect.  Thus I feel that my statement is a solid speculation firmly based on canon.  If you wish a citation for this reference, I will  have to get it later.  It was one of the bumps after the Allomancy/Mist connection had been found.

As for Sazed absorbing two of them:  That doesn't change the number of powers, just the number of personalities controlling the powers.  I still suspect that there are sixteen powers, or shards.  If they are being recombined, then good for them.  They were, after all, apparently one once.
I'll bow down to you on this one. I only took note of the fact that Sazed said Preservation used the number 16 to let the people know he was doing something and apparently ignored/forgot the rest.

As to the 5 or 6 shards thing, I'm fairly certain BS said that we had encountered 4 other shards beyond Ruin and Preservation.   I don't think he indicated how many there were total.

Mellington the loony Gold Misting

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 08:24:36 PM »
Au contraire.  Sazed said there was something very deep and fundamental about the number sixteen, something that related to the way the universe itself worked.  He said that Preservation used 16 because it was so fundamental to the way the world worked, Ruin couldn't counter it.  He said, in fact, that he didn't fully understand all the implications of 16, even with his expanded intellect.  Thus I feel that my statement is a solid speculation firmly based on canon.  If you wish a citation for this reference, I will  have to get it later.  It was one of the bumps after the Allomancy/Mist connection had been found.

As for Sazed absorbing two of them:  That doesn't change the number of powers, just the number of personalities controlling the powers.  I still suspect that there are sixteen powers, or shards.  If they are being recombined, then good for them.  They were, after all, apparently one once.
I'll bow down to you on this one. I only took note of the fact that Sazed said Preservation used the number 16 to let the people know he was doing something and apparently ignored/forgot the rest.

As to the 5 or 6 shards thing, I'm fairly certain BS said that we had encountered 4 other shards beyond Ruin and Preservation.   I don't think he indicated how many there were total.

I recall the same being said SK...
As for the "shards" we've dealt with on some level...at least the ones I suspect!
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happyman

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2008, 05:23:27 PM »
Au contraire.  Sazed said there was something very deep and fundamental about the number sixteen, something that related to the way the universe itself worked.  He said that Preservation used 16 because it was so fundamental to the way the world worked, Ruin couldn't counter it.  He said, in fact, that he didn't fully understand all the implications of 16, even with his expanded intellect.  Thus I feel that my statement is a solid speculation firmly based on canon.  If you wish a citation for this reference, I will  have to get it later.  It was one of the bumps after the Allomancy/Mist connection had been found.

As for Sazed absorbing two of them:  That doesn't change the number of powers, just the number of personalities controlling the powers.  I still suspect that there are sixteen powers, or shards.  If they are being recombined, then good for them.  They were, after all, apparently one once.
I'll bow down to you on this one. I only took note of the fact that Sazed said Preservation used the number 16 to let the people know he was doing something and apparently ignored/forgot the rest.

As to the 5 or 6 shards thing, I'm fairly certain BS said that we had encountered 4 other shards beyond Ruin and Preservation.   I don't think he indicated how many there were total.

The bump to chapter 71:

Quote
There is something special about the number sixteen.  For one thing, it was Preservation's sign to mankind.

Preservation knew, even before he imprisoned Ruin, that he wouldn't be able to communicate with humankind once he diminished himself.  And so, he left clues---clues that couldn't be altered by Ruin.  Clues that related back to the fundamental laws of the universe.  That number was meant to be proof that something unnatural was happening, and that there was help to be found.

It may have taken us long to figure this out, but when we eventually did understand the clue---late though it was---it provided a much-needed boost.

As for the other aspects of the number...well, even I am still investigating that.  Suffice it to say that it has great ramifications regarding how the world, and the universe itself, works.

And that's what I remember as well.  We've "met" a few other shards, but there has been no statement on how many there are.
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syrenyx

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 08:22:39 PM »
perhaps two humans (early on in time...whatever that may mean) just found the forces (similar to when sazed found them at the end coming from vin and ruin) though, instead of one person getting them both, it was split between two people, two minds, and therefore could not work together as intended.
maybe it was cain and abel or something.. haha

happyman

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2008, 01:57:11 AM »
perhaps two humans (early on in time...whatever that may mean) just found the forces (similar to when sazed found them at the end coming from vin and ruin) though, instead of one person getting them both, it was split between two people, two minds, and therefore could not work together as intended.
maybe it was cain and abel or something.. haha

This would work better if it weren't stated pretty clearly that they are shards of something larger.

No, the backstory here is going to be a bit more involved than all this.
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syrenyx

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Re: Who were Preservation and Ruin before they became forces? *Spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2008, 05:37:51 AM »
perhaps two humans (early on in time...whatever that may mean) just found the forces (similar to when sazed found them at the end coming from vin and ruin) though, instead of one person getting them both, it was split between two people, two minds, and therefore could not work together as intended.
maybe it was cain and abel or something.. haha

This would work better if it weren't stated pretty clearly that they are shards of something larger.

No, the backstory here is going to be a bit more involved than all this.

hmmm yes. thats very true, though im still a bit confused about the whole shard idea.