Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 57395 times)

JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #690 on: November 18, 2009, 10:32:17 PM »
Update!!! I finished Gathering Storm!!! lol

I just finished the book and came here to compliment it and figured I'd use my own thread to do it!! This book was EXELLENT!! So many situations resolved and new one created. There was so much great action!! I truly feel Brandon's style really helped the story move along at a great pace, but with much respect to RJ's original vision. I'm very curious to hear the opinions of the people who were the main contributors to this thread like Champion Kaz, Ingtarwasframed, and Renoard. But MOST especially Shard and douglas, as they were the two biggest contributors to the thread and took so much time to address each subject in my posts. You were the guys with all the answers for me because you were such big fans and knew the story so well. I would LOVE to hear your opinions on TGS and what you liked/disliked. I'll gladly share mine too!

It's good to be back!! lol
-Joe

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #691 on: November 18, 2009, 11:43:38 PM »
My opinions:
Egwene was a crowning masterpiece of awesome.  Her composure and tactics while captive were excellent, and her actions during the Seanchan attack were an all too rare example of someone actually being competent and intelligent for once.  The way she got around the forkroot was great, and I was very happy to see someone actually put that giant stockpile of *greal in the Tower to use.  Seriously, the White Tower has a very bad habit of acquiring objects of the power and letting them collect dust.  The acquiring part is fine, but they really need to stop the dust collecting part soon.  I particularly liked the scene where one of the Aes Sedai hears about a hard point of resistance forming in the novices' quarters, of all places, and the dawning realization that follows.  The discussion among the Ajah heads where one of them mentions, without even bothering to present evidence, that Egwene will not be anyone's puppet and will be a strong Amyrlin was also very nice.

Verin's reveal was very well done, and the way she circumvented her Oath was a perfect example of Aes Sedai word manipulation, taking wording apparently meant for emphasis and following it literally to find a loophole.  It's unfortunate that the Black Ajah Hunters got so thoroughly upstaged by Verin, but oh well.  Maybe they'll turn up later with something to make that arc worthwhile.  I'd been hoping for someone to find, break, and interrogate Alviarin, with that being the big breakthrough leading to the purge, but Verin's research works quite well too and clears up a lot of mystery and speculation about her.

Most of Rand's arc was a bit depressing to read, but it had a great payoff at the end.  I think he's finally achieved the reintegration that Semirhage mentioned when she was captured, and it will be interesting to see exactly what that means.  Does he have full access to Lews Therin's knowledge now?  Regardless, I think he's going to be a much better person from now on, and he'll probably have a lot easier time getting along with everyone else.  I'm expecting a lot fewer ultimatums and unexplained "just do it" orders from him in the remaining two books.

Rand's plan for taking out Graendal was a huge surprise and a big shock, but perfectly logical.  I was impressed.

I'm really looking forward to Seanchan arrogance getting punctured in ToM.  Somewhere along the line Rand is going to "bind the Nine Moons to serve him", and I imagine it will be great fun reading Tuon's reaction to that happening instead of the corrupted Seanchan prophecy of Rand kneeling to the Crystal Throne.  I expect Seanchan society will be quite shaken up by the event.  It's probably too much to hope for that their stance on damane might change, but I'll keep hoping for it anyway.  With a ta'veren as strong as Rand around, you never know.

happyman

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #692 on: November 19, 2009, 03:54:10 AM »
I'm pretty sure Rand achieved reintegration at the end of the book.  However, I suspect that by using the true power, he has opened a much larger can of worms that he will need to deal with.  Hopefully Lews Therin knew enough to help him deal with that fallout.
Nature hates being reified.

darxbane

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #693 on: November 19, 2009, 04:37:58 AM »
Yes, and he didn't have to shoot himself in the face to do it, either.  Rand actually saw hundreds of previous lives in that moment of clarity.  I'm glad you liked the new book, Joe.  Now you can use this thread to make up some theories for us to discuss.  You might have ideas we haven't thought of or have forgotten about over the years.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #694 on: November 19, 2009, 05:42:46 AM »
Egwene is Aes Sedai to the core... translation she is an arrogant *explictive* who thinks she has the right/ duty to guide the Dragon to his death, w/o making any of his sacrifices. That said she is a very competent women (and i agree with most of her political decisions), I just dislike her and the majority of Aes Sedai (Cadsuane, Moiraine, Verin, and Nyneave are all exceptions). Gawyn is WAY to self-righteous which fits him to a T. I wasn't disapointed like some with Mat b/c he was too worried to behave in his characteristic manner. Rand is my favorite character and the changes he expierenced were just flat out AMAZING, if at times depressing. Overall it is my third favorite book in the series  due to the huge scope and the massive development of the characters (depending on the day EotW or DR is my fav.).
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

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douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #695 on: November 19, 2009, 06:12:43 AM »
I'll agree that Egwene needs to learn some humility, and her apparent belief that Rand is a bumbling idiot who needs a wise (read: Aes Sedai, preferably herself) adviser to get anything done right is annoying, but the sheer magnitude of her competence compared with the extreme incompetence of the vast majority of Aes Sedai throughout the series more than makes up for it imo.  Her double standard regarding men bonding women vs women bonding men needs correction too, but that's a relatively minor issue compared to her competence.

Batchman

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #696 on: November 19, 2009, 08:01:19 PM »
Note ... I agree Egwene is a little full of herself ....

But let's not forget, AS bonding men is, for the most part, voluntary.

The BT bonding AS (not just women, but AS) were forced bondings. I can understand being angry about that.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #697 on: November 19, 2009, 10:50:09 PM »
But the Aes Sedai aren't sure that all of the bondings were forced  and the bondings that turned out alright i.e. Logan's still disgust them.... They forget Ashaman are their piers from 3k years ago also.... and that Rand is the rightful Amyrilin Seat
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

Batchman

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #698 on: November 20, 2009, 04:21:06 AM »
First, even if most of the BT bondings are forced, the WT has a right to be upset. (Yeah, yeah, I know the bonded sisters were sent to destroy the BT, but still ....)

Forced bonding doesn't sound like the kind of thing that should be done except in the direst of circumstances. (I'll accept in in Birgitte's case, because it was to save her very existence.)

Remember, even now, most AS don't know the OS is clean. Now, they are going to have to learn to deal with men channeling again, but until the source was cleaned, it was completely understandable that they didn't like men that channeled.

(Though to be honest, I think it is time for the Red Ajah to be disbanded ... they no longer serve an acceptable purpose. Time for those sisters to think of which other Ajah they would feel most comfortable in.)

But as to Rand being the rightful AS, I do not see it. Explain, please.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #699 on: November 20, 2009, 05:09:28 AM »
They do know the OS is cleaned b/c the sisters who bonded Ashaman have sent word... And LTT was the head of the Hall of Servants and all Aes Sedai therefore Rand who is his known reincarnation should be recognized as such.
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

Batchman

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #700 on: November 20, 2009, 07:05:08 AM »
They have been told. They do not yet believe it. It's going to take a while for true knowledge to spread. I'm not sure that even Egwene believes, yet.

As for LTT vs. Rand, Rand may be TDR, but he is not the Dragon, and LTT is ancient history. Rand is not currently in any mental condition to lead a reunified male and female AS. Even if he were (which he isn't, though Veins of Gold made progress in the right direction) I think he would pretty much have to destroy the WT to take control of it ... which is not something I would really consider to be a good thing.

Unless you believe the best thing is to completely destroy the WT, turn all the AS into OP-wielding refugees, and then try to start from scratch. I doubt Rand would want to be the AS, even if he could.

(Though it would be nice if the AS could remember they are supposed to serve, not to rule.)

jjb

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #701 on: November 20, 2009, 08:43:19 AM »
You really should find a different abbreviation for Amyrlin Seat. AS for both Aes Sedai and Amyrlin Seat doesn't work.

Batchman

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #702 on: November 20, 2009, 12:14:01 PM »
You really should find a different abbreviation for Amyrlin Seat. AS for both Aes Sedai and Amyrlin Seat doesn't work.

You make a good point. I ended up using it for both without quite realising it because I didn't want to misspell Amyrlin.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #703 on: November 20, 2009, 02:42:46 PM »
I never said they would submit only that Rand was the rightful leader of all... including the AS, and he serves through his rule which is what AS probably claim though don't practice (i love sentence fragments)
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

darxbane

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #704 on: November 20, 2009, 05:46:24 PM »
Egwene, Egwene, Egwene. It's a testament to RJ how you can love a character and be upset with them at the same time.  For example: I'm still not sure why she made such a 180 regarding the oath rod.  If the Black Ajah situation taught them anything, it should have been that a false sense of security is worse than no security.  Besides that, the oaths are only effective if the person is aware she is violating them.

As for still not trusting men; 3,000 years of history can't be undone overnight.  That said, some are beginning to see the need to change (I believe Egwene is one of those, even if her Wise One mentality is a little heavy-handed).

Should the Red Ajah be disbanded?  I think they all should be, honestly.  What good is a "temporary society" if it never ends?  There should be no distinction between them.  An Aes Sedai is an Aes Sedai.  They can still specialize in certain fields, but there wouldn't be this clique mentality.  Also, there would no longer be Ajah leaders that can manipulate the Sitters for their own devices.  Even without the existence of the Black Ajah this is not a good idea.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.