Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 125206 times)

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #630 on: June 08, 2009, 06:08:05 PM »
The main thing I remember from CoT is that it seemed like half the book was just various groups of channelers staring off into the distance with dropped jaws and saying something to the effect of "Holy **** that's a lot of power!"

And that will probably be the whole of Joe C's recap :-)

That is one of the bigger things that happened but there are some others, like Alvarin being choosen as Shadar Haran's favorite Pet.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

Renoard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #631 on: June 08, 2009, 11:17:09 PM »
I think a little more than that happened.
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #632 on: June 09, 2009, 02:13:52 AM »
I think a little more than that happened.

Yeah just a little.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

mtbikemom

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #633 on: June 11, 2009, 12:01:13 PM »
Now if a similar scenario were to play out in real life, I think it's almost guaranteed the aggressor would be committing rape at some level.

   What, WOT is not real life????
   Just a little dig for fans who begin questions like, "If so and so can do (whatever), then why don't they..."  This is a world created by a brilliant-but-finite human being and is sometimes inconsistent for that reason.  I giggle when fantasy geeks like me lose touch with reality just a bit.  No offense meant to anyone.

   That said, I believe that there is a double standard for behavior such as that described for the Tylin character and I believe that, while not exactly fair, it is warranted in the real world because of basic human anatomy and sexuality.  Let's face it, were roles reversed, it would definitely be at least bordering on rape if not actual rape-by-coercion.  Aggressive seduction is simply more acceptable when female-instigated for obvious reasons, even when regret is voiced after the fact.  I don't believe Mat was raped, but I squirmed a bit (while laughing) at the role reversal.

   Oh and, Joe, I did warn you about CoT, but I commend you for getting through it.  I was really concerned with RJ's sanity/health after reading this book, long before he was diagnosed with the disease that ended his life, I think.  Once, I wrote a guide for a friend suggesting which chapters (almost everything set in Salidar and Caemlyn) to skip in order to at least follow the story line and try to enjoy the book.  New Spring and KoD were such a relief to me, being fully invested in this never-ending story... at least it seemed that way at the time.

This might be a good time for Joe to read New Spring! 

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #634 on: June 11, 2009, 05:37:26 PM »
He should also get the BWB Encyclopedia as well if you haven't done so already Joe.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

Casco

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #635 on: June 13, 2009, 10:11:00 AM »
Just hang on Joec, the next book is one of the best in the series, but it would not be if COT didnt build up the story for KOD. For me KOD was an endless "climax" ;D I enjoyed every page like crazy. The weakest storyline was Rand though, but i have a feeling we will get alot about him in next book.

JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #636 on: June 14, 2009, 12:33:25 AM »
Okay Update!! Finished Crossroads of Twilight! Sorry the update is late but I have been VERY busy.

Okay, I'm sorry to admit that I didn't enjoy this one as much as the others. It was very slow and it really seemed like NOTHING happened. Some of the other books went on too long, but they had some major events in there and all had spectacular endings. This one just ends unfortunately. Don't worry I haven't given up. I do have Knife of Dreams and I am currently 180 pages into it. Now THIS is a good book. But this update will be for CoT.

-First off, the section of the book dealing with Elayne and her politics was the hardest part to get through. It just went on for so long and nothing happened. I'm getting frustrated with her storyline. Why does it have to go on for so long. I understand she can't just jump right on the throne, but a lot of it is just needless. It doesn't really expand the story for me, it just bogs things down.

-Mat and his gang catch up with Luca and his traveling show. Boy this guy just shows up everywhere lol. He still has Tuon but she keeps calling him Toy and acts as if she's allowing this all to go on. Despite her attitude, and the negative attitudes of her servants, Mat keeps trying to win her affections. He brings her flowers, a necklace, and tries playing stones with her. This is kind of odd actually. I mean, the ONLY reason he's doing this is because of Min's viewing. He's not naturally falling for her. If Min didn't have that viewing, then he wouldn't even keep Tuon. Oddly enough, I actually like Tuon. She's feisty. lol

-Perrin's storyline was dissapointing. He, along with Two Rivers soldiers, Aes Sedai, and Asha'man have located the Shaido camp where Faile and Alliandre are being kept. There are thousands of them, way too many for Perrin to risk an assault. He does have the benefit of Traveling from the Asha'man. Since the Shaido have no male channelers, their movements are hidden. It's too bad that this storyline just ended too. I really wanted to see how this played out. It winds up with Perrin considering a truce with the Seanchan. I didn't expect that I'll admit, but it does make sense. They would be a powerful ally and Tarmon Gai'don IS coming soon. High time everybody teamed up together.

-In my favorite chapter, Alvarian gets put in her place by Elaida, for leaving the Tower in a time of seige. Back at her room she uses an emergency call box of some kind to send for Mesaana. She comes, but so does Shadar Haren. Shadar ties Mesanna up with some type of power (I thought he couldn't channel.) He asks Alvarian if she wants to witness Mesaana's execution. She says no and he makes Alvarian his official pet. He marks her with the Dark One's touch. I thought this was pretty cool. Just as I thought Alvarian had spun her last web, she gets a promotion!!! I'm still interested to see what Elaida will do when/if she finds all this out.

-Rand's storyline was very short too. He also decides to make a truce with the Seanchan. They send someone to meet him called the Daughter of the Nine Moons. This I don't get. I'm not sure if Tuon ISN'T the DotNM or that the book jumped timelines again. Tuon is still with Mat and they aren't near Rand. I'm interested to see how this truce goes and see what they demand of Rand in return.

-Egwene still has the White Tower under seige. At the end she is captured after sabotaging the harbor. I originally thought she had cut the giant chain using a gateway, but I've now learned that she turned it into cuendillar. Very nice plan I must say. Very bad that she is captured. I like Egwene and I don't want to see anything bad happen to her. Their seige certainly isn't going the way I thought it would.

-Rand, Mat, and Perrin all have colors swirling in their head anytime they think of eachother. They almost form pictures of the one they are thinking about. I'm not sure where this came from, but perhaps it'lll end up being a way for them to communicate with eachother??

Okay guys. Sorry for the crappy update, I just didn't have many positive things to say about this one. Don't worry, I'm very much enjoying KoD. I'm almost caught up!!! Take care guys!!

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #637 on: June 14, 2009, 04:38:00 AM »
Okay Update!! Finished Crossroads of Twilight! Sorry the update is late but I have been VERY busy.

Okay, I'm sorry to admit that I didn't enjoy this one as much as the others. It was very slow and it really seemed like NOTHING happened. Some of the other books went on too long, but they had some major events in there and all had spectacular endings. This one just ends unfortunately. Don't worry I haven't given up. I do have Knife of Dreams and I am currently 180 pages into it. Now THIS is a good book. But this update will be for CoT.

*clap* Glad you got through it, it's understandable if your busy just glad you finished and already on to the next book to boot! With CoT what I think RJ was attempting to do was to show the Cleansing from other people's point of views that were not there. He wanted reactions to it that I think would not have fit in Winter's Heart, so what you have is a book full of build up. So unlike some fans I don't think RJ was milking it, he just tried a different way of telling this part of the story that didn't get a good reaction from the fandom. Where in previous books as you point out we get major climaxes at least, this one just seems one long intrigue story that doesn't really conclude.

Quote
-First off, the section of the book dealing with Elayne and her politics was the hardest part to get through. It just went on for so long and nothing happened. I'm getting frustrated with her storyline. Why does it have to go on for so long. I understand she can't just jump right on the throne, but a lot of it is just needless. It doesn't really expand the story for me, it just bogs things down.

Yeah these Elayne chapters were pretty hard to digest, it does seem silly in some ways to play such games when the Apocalypse is on the Horizon.

Quote
-Mat and his gang catch up with Luca and his traveling show. Boy this guy just shows up everywhere lol. He still has Tuon but she keeps calling him Toy and acts as if she's allowing this all to go on. Despite her attitude, and the negative attitudes of her servants, Mat keeps trying to win her affections. He brings her flowers, a necklace, and tries playing stones with her. This is kind of odd actually. I mean, the ONLY reason he's doing this is because of Min's viewing. He's not naturally falling for her. If Min didn't have that viewing, then he wouldn't even keep Tuon. Oddly enough, I actually like Tuon. She's feisty. lol

First it wasn't Min's visions it was the Finn's stating he had to marry the Dot9m. Also for this I think we do need to see them developing their relationship otherwise as you point out it will just feel forced and not natural.

Quote
-Perrin's storyline was dissapointing. He, along with Two Rivers soldiers, Aes Sedai, and Asha'man have located the Shaido camp where Faile and Alliandre are being kept. There are thousands of them, way too many for Perrin to risk an assault. He does have the benefit of Traveling from the Asha'man. Since the Shaido have no male channelers, their movements are hidden. It's too bad that this storyline just ended too. I really wanted to see how this played out. It winds up with Perrin considering a truce with the Seanchan. I didn't expect that I'll admit, but it does make sense. They would be a powerful ally and Tarmon Gai'don IS coming soon. High time everybody teamed up together.

This is the storyline that most of the fandom complains about that it just drags on and on. It doesn't help when many even think that Faile doesn't deserve Perrin and how he constantly pines and whines for her. When you said storyline ended you don't mean Perrin Rescuing Faile do you? Cause it's not over in this book for sure.

Quote
-In my favorite chapter, Alvarian gets put in her place by Elaida, for leaving the Tower in a time of seige. Back at her room she uses an emergency call box of some kind to send for Mesaana. She comes, but so does Shadar Haren. Shadar ties Mesanna up with some type of power (I thought he couldn't channel.) He asks Alvarian if she wants to witness Mesaana's execution. She says no and he makes Alvarian his official pet. He marks her with the Dark One's touch. I thought this was pretty cool. Just as I thought Alvarian had spun her last web, she gets a promotion!!! I'm still interested to see what Elaida will do when/if she finds all this out.

This probably is my favorite chapter as well and it's entitled "The Mark", which made me think she had been made a new Forsaken. Sadly no she's just been picked out as a favorite "pet" for Shadar Haran. So I'm not so sure this is a promotion as someone saying "This is my favorite Dog, see that it is treated well." RJ confirmed this in a Q&A since others wondered if she had just been made a new Choosen.

Quote
-Rand's storyline was very short too. He also decides to make a truce with the Seanchan. They send someone to meet him called the Daughter of the Nine Moons. This I don't get. I'm not sure if Tuon ISN'T the DotNM or that the book jumped timelines again. Tuon is still with Mat and they aren't near Rand. I'm interested to see how this truce goes and see what they demand of Rand in return.

Oh Toun is the Dot9m and she is indeed with Mat, so if the Seachan SAY they are sending Toun and yet do not actually have Toun. What do you think that means then?

Quote
-Egwene still has the White Tower under seige. At the end she is captured after sabotaging the harbor. I originally thought she had cut the giant chain using a gateway, but I've now learned that she turned it into cuendillar. Very nice plan I must say. Very bad that she is captured. I like Egwene and I don't want to see anything bad happen to her. Their seige certainly isn't going the way I thought it would.

That's for sure, I think RJ managed to surprise us all with Egwene's WT storyline.

Quote
-Rand, Mat, and Perrin all have colors swirling in their head anytime they think of eachother. They almost form pictures of the one they are thinking about. I'm not sure where this came from, but perhaps it'lll end up being a way for them to communicate with eachother??

One would hope so but you know how stubborn they can be about somethings.

Quote
Okay guys. Sorry for the crappy update, I just didn't have many positive things to say about this one. Don't worry, I'm very much enjoying KoD. I'm almost caught up!!! Take care guys!!

Enjoy Knife of Dreams, after that you can read New Spring. Then it's waiting until November for the next book.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

IngtarWhoStoleChristmas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #638 on: June 14, 2009, 09:07:43 AM »
Yay Joe!

I agree, COT was a pretty tough read, I'm not that far but I'm not looking forward to it in this re-read. Almost all of it feels kind of necessary after you read KoD but still hurts trying to get through it. Definitely pick up new spring when you're done. It's a shorty but there are some great things in that book you won't want to miss. TONS of Lan POV and a certain test that I thought was pretty cool :-) It's much better if you have read deep in to the series as there are tons of people that pop up, but they are all 20 years younger.

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #639 on: June 14, 2009, 04:52:22 PM »
Yeah, CoT is slow and comparatively uneventful, but now you're done and can enjoy KoD.

-Mat and his gang catch up with Luca and his traveling show. Boy this guy just shows up everywhere lol. He still has Tuon but she keeps calling him Toy and acts as if she's allowing this all to go on. Despite her attitude, and the negative attitudes of her servants, Mat keeps trying to win her affections. He brings her flowers, a necklace, and tries playing stones with her. This is kind of odd actually. I mean, the ONLY reason he's doing this is because of Min's viewing. He's not naturally falling for her. If Min didn't have that viewing, then he wouldn't even keep Tuon. Oddly enough, I actually like Tuon. She's feisty. lol
You'd think Luca is Ta'veren or something the way he keeps running into main characters all the time. :P  It's actually the Finns, not Min, and he is gradually falling in love with her.  I was rather amused when I learned the Seanchan marriage ceremony and that Mat had already completed half of it by accident.

-Perrin's storyline was dissapointing. He, along with Two Rivers soldiers, Aes Sedai, and Asha'man have located the Shaido camp where Faile and Alliandre are being kept. There are thousands of them, way too many for Perrin to risk an assault. He does have the benefit of Traveling from the Asha'man. Since the Shaido have no male channelers, their movements are hidden. It's too bad that this storyline just ended too. I really wanted to see how this played out. It winds up with Perrin considering a truce with the Seanchan. I didn't expect that I'll admit, but it does make sense. They would be a powerful ally and Tarmon Gai'don IS coming soon. High time everybody teamed up together.
No big climaxes in CoT, but at least you get the payoff from this one's buildup in KoD.

-Rand's storyline was very short too. He also decides to make a truce with the Seanchan. They send someone to meet him called the Daughter of the Nine Moons. This I don't get. I'm not sure if Tuon ISN'T the DotNM or that the book jumped timelines again. Tuon is still with Mat and they aren't near Rand. I'm interested to see how this truce goes and see what they demand of Rand in return.
No jumping timelines here.  Tuon is indeed the DotNM, and she is in Mat's custody when this happens.  Someone in Seanchan is plotting something and isn't being honest.

-Egwene still has the White Tower under seige. At the end she is captured after sabotaging the harbor. I originally thought she had cut the giant chain using a gateway, but I've now learned that she turned it into cuendillar. Very nice plan I must say. Very bad that she is captured. I like Egwene and I don't want to see anything bad happen to her. Their seige certainly isn't going the way I thought it would.
She's trying to block the harbor, not open it, cutting the chain would be counterproductive.  As for the capture...  this leads to some unfortunately short scenes of pure awesomeness for Egwene in KoD.  So much so that she's seriously competing with Mat for the label of my favorite character in the book.

Okay guys. Sorry for the crappy update, I just didn't have many positive things to say about this one. Don't worry, I'm very much enjoying KoD. I'm almost caught up!!! Take care guys!!
Have fun with KoD.  I'll be interested to see your reaction to a certain major bombshell revelation about a certain character we haven't seen in a while.  It should be obvious which one I mean when you get to it.

darxbane

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #640 on: June 15, 2009, 04:28:28 PM »
One small point, Joe.  Mesaana is not going to be killed, just roughed up a good amount.  Shaidar Haran has access to a power that is unexplained, and I believe this is the only time he uses it (he attacks physically every other time).  His "Dark Stedding" ability should make things interesting in the last books.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #641 on: June 16, 2009, 01:28:25 AM »
my question is is it some how connected to the threads that connect the forsaken to the DO or can he use it on anone... i mean if i was the DO i would have some check measures against the forsaken... did anyone think of that?
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Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #642 on: June 16, 2009, 12:52:54 PM »
I think Kaz that's why Moridin started Mindtrapping the Forsaken. Two have been mindtrapped and at least a third threatened to be Mindtrapped.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #643 on: June 16, 2009, 09:08:48 PM »
Im inclined to agree with you and that the stilling effect (he can turn it off can't he?) effects all OP users but the possibility is what i was mentioning not what i thought
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #644 on: June 21, 2009, 01:05:36 AM »
I'd just like to say that I ran across this thread purely by chance yesterday and it's been a blast reading the account from someone who's never before read through WoT.  Joe, you and everybody else have been quite entertaining!

Ironically, I was about a week away from starting my own re-read of the series so that I'd be sure to be done by the time The Gathering Storm comes out.  After reading this thread I'm no longer sure that I need to do so. 

But I won't let that stop me.  There's always something new that I notice whenever I go back through a book, especially these.  I'm still trying to figure out who killed Asmodean, in fact.  My patience is wearing thin after ten years of wondering, however.  If Brandon doesn't get around to answering it in TGS I'll probably break down and Google it.

Looking forward to your KoD report!