Author Topic: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*  (Read 6129 times)

Chaos

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2008, 10:05:29 PM »
However, there is a distinction between the power of Preservation and Leras, the entity which controlled the power. When Leras died, the mists remained. Likewise, when Leras created the prison of the Well of Ascension, he was a weak, shadow of his consciousness. The mists and the mist spirit acted separately in this regard. If the mist spirit could still control the mists fully and completely, there would be no reason for him to keep using the Deepness to make people Snap.

In MB2, the mist spirit is trying to prevent Vin from releasing Ruin at the Well. Well, the killing-mists is a large factor of Vin going to the Well of Ascension. If Leras/mist spirit wanted to really prevent the catastrophe, then he would have tried to stop the mists from making people Snap, because that would prevent the "Deepness". Since the mist spirit did not do that, I can only assume that is because the mist spirit did not have enough strength to control the mists. This shows that there is a clear distinction between the mist spirit and the mist, even if they are both part of Preservation. They are not interchangeable.
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 11:31:54 PM »
It might help if we just pull up what was actually said when we were discussing it...

Quote
I would like to announce something.

If Vin Doesn't unite with the mist spirit, i will eat my hat. Yes, i did say "eat my hat."

and i mean it, if it so happens that she doesn't, i will post a picture of me eating a ketchup covered cap...

But if it does happen--i am to be addressed--by all who post the word "aye" (indicating their challenge)--as Sir Elmandr1.

So, who's up for it?
(Emphasis added.)

Quote
Since i have placed a rather risky bet on this.

In general. What do you guys think of idea of the HOA and the Mist spirit uniting.

Let me elaborate before you answer...


to me, or i believe, that the mist spirit is the collective souls of the HOA's of the past.

And that the HOA of today must unite with the mist spirit to destroy Ruin...That would explain why Ruin would want the world to think it evil--and that why i think it changed that part of the prophecy as well.

I don't think that deepness is the correct word.

Ruin altered it--i don't know what the word actually is but thats no it.

Vin wields the mists once...it essentially gives her powers that no other HOA can have...

Mist spirit has control over mist...

mist is formless mass of infinite energy...

so, what do ya'll think?


So there you have it!

He's guilty. And while his bet could be construed another way such as in this quote:
Quote
I think that the HOA is supposed to be endowed with the Mist Spirit.
Which could mean absorbing mists instead... I still think that's too far of a stretch.

However, Chaos was the only one that I found who accepted the challenge, and therefore is the one to legally enforce it.

On another note, I should point out that Marsh didn't die, so Elmandr1 doesn't have to eat his hat for that:
Quote
Quote
Quote from: SarahG on September 25, 2008, 08:10:44 AM
I agree that Marsh has to die, though it will make me very sad when it happens.  But I think at least one other main character will die too.

Must you be so grim?

He won't Die!

if he does, i'll eat my hat--do you agree to do the same if he doesn't?

this challenge goes for you as well, miyabe! Grin

Although SarahG only agreed to eat a chocolate in the shape of a hat, so I guess she should do that. ;)

(All these quotes are from the Countdown Thread, except this last one, which is from What will happen in HOA.)

Reaves

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2008, 12:24:52 AM »
I think it is pretty clear that the Mist Spirit died before Vin even came to the power. So, while she did end up replacing him for a time, she absolutely did not unite or whatnot.

It would be akin to saying because Elend replaced the Lord Ruler as ruler of the Final Empire he "united" with the man.
He's Guilty!

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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 03:04:12 AM »
Is it right to say preservation died? no, it isn't. It just lost its consciousness. Almost in a vegetative state. the body functions still.
Preservation (Leras) died. Or rather, he was dead the whole time (ever since he trapped Ruin, right?). Like I said in one of the theory threads, the truth about the mist spirit was staring you in the face—the mist spirit was indeed a spirit: Leras's ghost. Then after the spirit communicated with Elend, even the spirit died. So he died twice. That's pretty dead.
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 02:48:54 PM »
On a side note:  Why is Elmandr so enamoured with hat eating?  Are you part moth or something?  Two different bets with the same penalty. 
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 09:53:04 PM »
Quote
i believe, that the mist spirit is the collective souls of the HOA's of the past.

And that the HOA of today must unite with the mist spirit to destroy Ruin...That would explain why Ruin would want the world to think it evil--and that why i think it changed that part of the prophecy as well.

I don't think that deepness is the correct word.

Ruin altered it--i don't know what the word actually is but that's no it.

Vin wields the mists once...it essentially gives her powers that no other HOA can have...

Mist spirit has control over mist...

mist is formless mass of infinite energy...

so, what do y'all think?


first off I'd like to thank you Qarlin, as i was to lazy to look for the original posts--even if they held the poof that i so needed to prove my case.

so thanks for that.

Did any of us know that the mist and the mist spirit were two different entities. Did anyone know they were the same? surely no one suspected that they were both the same and different. Yet you say that because of the unsureness of what it was i meant--that it should be taken literally. Well, read carefully what i said. I refer to Vin wielding the mist--and yet i said she would unite with the spirit. i mention that the evilness of the Deepness is another of Ruins alterations--and yet i speak of the Spirit.

I even mention that the mist is endless power. So, for your understanding, when i say mist spirit it is obvious i believed that they were essentially the same. i was wrong in that sense. However Vin did wield the mist as i said. She did kill ruin with it.

I did attempt to explain why. Or to assume how or what it would mean for her to take the power. Saying that it was the Collective souls of past HOA's. That. since it does not concern directly with the argument should be ignored.

Someone said that this is just a desperate attempt to not eat a hat--i have something to say to that; This is a fight for my name. I argue that i should be addressed as lord or Sir. The idea of me eating a hat is secondary. I am right anyway, just read between the lines, and be objective.

I i hadn't made the punishment as exciting as it is--you all wouldn't be so eager to see me charged...curse me demented creativity.
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2008, 10:59:59 PM »
Quote
i believe, that the mist spirit is the collective souls of the HOA's of the past.

And that the HOA of today must unite with the mist spirit to destroy Ruin...That would explain why Ruin would want the world to think it evil--and that why i think it changed that part of the prophecy as well.

I don't think that deepness is the correct word.

Ruin altered it--i don't know what the word actually is but that's no it.

Vin wields the mists once...it essentially gives her powers that no other HOA can have...

Mist spirit has control over mist...

mist is formless mass of infinite energy...

so, what do y'all think?


first off I'd like to thank you Qarlin, as i was to lazy to look for the original posts--even if they held the poof that i so needed to prove my case.

Quite  a statement given that the consensus of the thread is against you.  Me included.  He's definitely guilty!


so thanks for that.

Did any of us know that the mist and the mist spirit were two different entities.

Several of us suspected it, yes.


 Did anyone know they were the same?


They were definitely not the same.  They were two different and distinct aspects of a larger thing.  Saying they were the same is like saying that your personality and your body are the same thing; they may be intimately connected, but even the most determined materialist would admit that it is possible to separate the two.


surely no one suspected that they were both the same and different. Yet you say that because of the unsureness of what it was i meant--that it should be taken literally. Well, read carefully what i said. I refer to Vin wielding the mist--and yet i said she would unite with the spirit. i mention that the evilness of the Deepness is another of Ruins alterations--and yet i speak of the Spirit.

I even mention that the mist is endless power. So, for your understanding, when i say mist spirit it is obvious i believed that they were essentially the same. i was wrong in that sense. However Vin did wield the mist as i said. She did kill ruin with it.


You're stretching things here.  Very badly.  You claimed that the mist spirit was the conglomeration of the souls of previous Heroes of Ages.  This is not the same as the mists.  In point of fact, you claim that the mist spirit controls the mists (which it doesn't).  Although you made good points about the power in the mists and them not being evil, the key point---that Vin would merge with the mist spirit---did not happen.  And everybody, including you, thought they were distinct before the bet took place.



I did attempt to explain why. Or to assume how or what it would mean for her to take the power. Saying that it was the Collective souls of past HOA's. That. since it does not concern directly with the argument should be ignored.

Someone said that this is just a desperate attempt to not eat a hat--i have something to say to that; This is a fight for my name. I argue that i should be addressed as lord or Sir. The idea of me eating a hat is secondary. I am right anyway, just read between the lines, and be objective.

I i hadn't made the punishment as exciting as it is--you all wouldn't be so eager to see me charged...curse me demented creativity.

It's probably not an attempt to not eat you're hat.  I have noticed, however, that you have sometimes been rather more strongly attached to your theories than the evidence would admit, and that you tend to interpret moderate criticism as support if it concedes enough points.  This is a similar case.  Once again, however, I must disagree with you.
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2008, 11:12:44 PM »
My thumb is still pointing down.
Who bit Chaos?
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Chaos

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2008, 11:15:19 PM »
My thumb is still pointing down.
Who bit Chaos?

Pointing down... for whom? To make a vote, make it obvious. Like a giant bold text of "He's guilty!" or something.
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2008, 11:40:21 PM »

Who bit Chaos?

He's Dracula! You know, the original...
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2008, 11:45:05 PM »
I think it is pretty clear that the Mist Spirit died before Vin even came to the power. So, while she did end up replacing him for a time, she absolutely did not unite or whatnot.

It would be akin to saying because Elend replaced the Lord Ruler as ruler of the Final Empire he "united" with the man.
He's Guilty!



Agreed.

JUDGMENT!  I remember reading about you eating your hat right after you posted it Elmandr--and you're doing it.  She definitely did NOT merge with the mist spirit due to the fact that the mist spirit had died.  If she had merged with the mist spirit, both the old consciousness behind preservation and Vin would have had to been controlling the power of preservation at once.

They weren't.  [/Judgment]

Guilty on one count.

Punishment: Hat eating time.

Preferable form of proof is Youtube. 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 11:50:08 PM by Wielder »
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Andrew the Great

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2008, 02:13:02 PM »
I'm a bit late, but my verdict: Elmandr1 is guilty.

And whoever said that Chaos is the only one who agreed is wrong. I said I'd call him "Your Holiness" if he won.
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2008, 03:17:38 PM »
Elmandr1 has Lost.

The simple fact that you admit you didn't know the mist spirit and the mists were not the same proves you were wrong.  It doesn't matter that you got other parts of it right.  Your primary argument was wrong.  Vin didn't unite with the mist spirit, she BECAME the mist spirit, for lack of a better example.  Now, if you would have argued that, while you were wrong on this point, you got others correct, and therefore should be forgiven from your boast, I would have been lenient.  However, you instead tried to spin your comments with bogus interpretation, and still have the audacity to not only admit you were wrong, but that you should be commended for it.
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2008, 04:22:40 PM »
Youtube then....?
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2008, 06:09:29 PM »
Youtube then....?

Youtube!  The time is nigh!

P.S. Nice fancy pants name.  They gave you a heroic epithet, almost.
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