Author Topic: Hero of Ages, job well done  (Read 6217 times)

wvlr

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2008, 08:31:46 PM »
I got it early Saturday and just finished it!!         GREAT BOOK!!     Is there a place we can discuss it before I start more leasurly Re-read????

jnktoburen

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 14
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Uh... is this thing on?
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2008, 08:40:41 PM »
And I would kill myself if I read the end of the book first. You miss out on all that buildup.

I understand how most people feel about reading the end first. And I certainly don't tell everyone else to do what I do. I read the end of books first simply because of a preference I developed while earning my BA in English.

I really get into stories. I love the flow and function of stories. Frequently, the ends of books won't jive with the flow of a story (at least in my opinion they don't), and then I feel jilted at the end. (The Matrix Revolutions is a great example of an end which did not fit the form of the story. They had the epic Hero thing going and then they took a hard right at Christianity before doing the Dune ending. It was bizarre.) Also, because of my schooling I really can't read without a critical eye anymore. Believe me it sucks in many ways, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go back, but I can't just dig in and enjoy - I have to understand why I'm enjoying. Make sense?

Therefore, I read the end of books so I can "see" where the story's headed. If the ending doesn't fit or it's forced, then I'm not surprised. Plus, when I say "I read the end." I mean I read a couple of paragraphs to get the gist of the end. I don't get all the hard details. I think I got the gist of HoA. That's why I say BA has really tackled a monster. I can't wait to see how it all plays out.
What? You were expecting greatness?

Chaos

  • Administrator
  • Level 36
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
  • Fell Points: 3
  • The Original Hero of Ages
    • View Profile
    • Eric Lake
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2008, 08:46:04 PM »
I got it early Saturday and just finished it!!         GREAT BOOK!!     Is there a place we can discuss it before I start more leasurly Re-read????

Well, a Spoiler's thread will be stickied Tuesday morning, and that will be when you can begin discussion.
www.17thshard.com - The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite.

Oh SNAP, I'm an Allomancer.

wvlr

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2008, 09:01:38 PM »
Well, a Spoiler's thread will be stickied Tuesday morning, and that will be when you can begin discussion.

Great!     That gives me time to (mostly)  re-read!!!

VegasDev

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 395
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2008, 09:21:57 PM »
Therefore, I read the end of books so I can "see" where the story's headed. If the ending doesn't fit or it's forced, then I'm not surprised. Plus, when I say "I read the end." I mean I read a couple of paragraphs to get the gist of the end. I don't get all the hard details. I think I got the gist of HoA. That's why I say BA has really tackled a monster. I can't wait to see how it all plays out.

Hogwash. That's like saying you'd watch the last 5 minutes of The Sixth Sense, The Usual Suspects and Fight Club and not have your experience ruined. If you read the last chapter and find out a character dies before the end, chances are you will build an emotional wall so that you don't get attached.
Now you've got all the ones with beards on one side and all the
moustaches on the other.

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2008, 09:32:13 PM »
You ending-readers is why I put the endings in the Alcatraz books that I did.

Hint: It makes fun of you.

Let's wait on the spoiler thread at least until tonight.  I don't want to taunt people who weren't able to get the book early.
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

jnktoburen

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 14
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Uh... is this thing on?
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2008, 09:48:54 PM »
Hogwash. That's like saying you'd watch the last 5 minutes of The Sixth Sense, The Usual Suspects and Fight Club and not have your experience ruined. If you read the last chapter and find out a character dies before the end, chances are you will build an emotional wall so that you don't get attached.

Interesting that you bring that up. I saw the last 5 minutes of Fight Club accidentally. Had no idea what I was watching was the end of Fight Club (how could you?). Saw the movie some time later. Figured out pretty quick that I knew the ending already. Completely did not blow it for me.

I guess it's a big difference between how I enjoy stories and how others enjoy stories. Most people like the buildup and the surprise at the end. I'm into quality prose and story fabric. I'm more interested in the journey. Emile Zola wrote an amazing book called Germinal. The story is rip-your-guts-out powerful. The flow of the story in that book dumped you squarely into the end and even though the end is pretty hard-core, it was born from the story so naturally, the book could literally end no other way. I don't have a problem with characters dying. I have a problem when a story deviates from itself in order to shock the reader/viewer. It must make sense. If the ending comes out of left field, then the story must reflect the plausibility of this in some way. It takes a great deal of skill to craft a story that both surprises/haunts and yet leaves you feeling as if that was the only possible ending.
What? You were expecting greatness?

jnktoburen

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 14
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Uh... is this thing on?
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2008, 09:51:29 PM »
You ending-readers is why I put the endings in the Alcatraz books that I did.

Hint: It makes fun of you.

That's hilarious. I haven't read the Alcatraz books yet. I probably wouldn't read the end of those anyway - but now I definitely won't.  :)
What? You were expecting greatness?

VegasDev

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 395
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2008, 10:14:06 PM »
I still fail to understand how reading the end gives you any glimpse of whether it just came out of left field or not, because you don't have any point of reference. You say you're more interested in the journey, yet skip to the end? That just doesn't make any sense. If you already know how they got there, how does that even allow you to experience the journey?

I'm sure many have experienced haunted houses growing up and know about the bowl full of eyeballs. If you've never experienced one but are going to, please ignore the rest of this post. Would you still experience it the same if you peeled the grapes yourself, then were blindfolded and told that you are actually reaching into a bowl full of eyeballs?

I'm not trying to change your mind, I will tell you the suprise ending of any movie or book I know if you want, I just fail to see how it does anything but ruin the story.
Now you've got all the ones with beards on one side and all the
moustaches on the other.

Reaves

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1226
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2008, 10:18:32 PM »
I still fail to understand how reading the end gives you any glimpse of whether it just came out of left field or not, because you don't have any point of reference. You say you're more interested in the journey, yet skip to the end? That just doesn't make any sense. If you already know how they got there, how does that even allow you to experience the journey?

I'm sure many have experienced haunted houses growing up and know about the bowl full of eyeballs. If you've never experienced one but are going to, please ignore the rest of this post. Would you still experience it the same if you peeled the grapes yourself, then were blindfolded and told that you are actually reaching into a bowl full of eyeballs?

I'm not trying to change your mind, I will tell you the suprise ending of any movie or book I know if you want, I just fail to see how it does anything but ruin the story.

Wow that is quite possibly the coolest analogy I have ever seen or heard of.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

jnktoburen

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 14
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Uh... is this thing on?
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2008, 10:29:03 PM »
VegasDev,

I guess we'll just have to disagree. Somehow - and I know that it's tough for you to understand this - I actually enjoy stories more when I know the end. Who knows, if I hadn't spent several years peeling stories apart and examining their every nuance from several different critical perspectives, I might feel differently. As I've said, I don't relish my position, it simply is what it is.

I have not only peeled the grapes. I have looked at myriad ways of peeling, examining each method and comparing the results to actual eyeballs. Checked responses with mood and backdrops. Then done it all again, but this time looking at it from a Feminist POV.

Wow... that really was a excellent illustration on your part.
What? You were expecting greatness?

VegasDev

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 395
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2008, 10:44:15 PM »
Somehow - and I know that it's tough for you to understand this - I actually enjoy stories more when I know the end.

I think you misunderstand me. I am not arguing about reading and enjoying stories more when you know the end, that's what happens when you read the book the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. time. I am arguing that you have removed the blissfully ignorant perspective. The perspective of not knowing the outcome, just like the characters involved. Not knowing who will survive if anyone does. Not knowing that what you thought was the truth was actually deviously inaccurate.

I will disagree with you however, on a feminists POV on grapes. Grapes are grapes, they're not apples or oranges.
Now you've got all the ones with beards on one side and all the
moustaches on the other.

Comatose

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 904
  • Fell Points: 1
  • A Shard of Adonalsium
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2008, 11:12:36 PM »
I see what you are saying jnktoburen, and in some ways I agree with you.  I also enjoy going through a book and seeing how it all flows together, and I like picking it apart as well.  However, I usually do this on my SECOND read of the book.  I'll read through really quickly just to get through and get to the end.  It's always kind of a hazy time for me.  Then I'll reread with a clear head and see how everything works together.  Afterwards, it can get a little confusing, for example: I can no longer remember ever thinking the log book author was Rashek, or that the power in the well was not supposed to be released, because when I was surprised by it, I was in such a haze of enjoyment and suspense, that I just didn't commit it to memory.  To me it feels sort of like I always knew, even though I know I didn't.

We'll miss you Sarah!  Get back soon!
"Look, I'm just trying to change the world, okay?  I don't have time for a grudge match with every poser in a parka!"
- Dr. Horrible

"There's always another secret..."
- Kelsier

bhthomas

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2008, 01:17:08 AM »
Long ago for reasons even I don't know after reading the first chapter in any book I would always jump and read the last paragraph.Its not reading the  whole last chapter so I don't know all that happens but it gives me a glimpse of how the story ends up.
And for the people that don't understand why some people like to read the ending first I like to compare it to really good history films. Every one already knows what happens in the end but people can still enjoy it a lot.

Qarlin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 267
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The idiotic cock-eyed flum-dummery!
    • View Profile
Re: Hero of Ages, job well done
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2008, 02:17:25 AM »
It varies from person to person; I have never cared whether I knew an ending before hand or not. I do enjoy trying to figure it out and such but yeah. However, one of my brothers hates it when you tell him how it ends. It just varies on opinion.