Mistborn 3 Chapter 3

[SarahG]

Yes, jjb, that's exactly what I was thinking.  And while it definitely helps to have a logical reason for Elend to be stronger (I don't remember there being a similar explanation in WoT, I mean it's not like Nynaeve and the other strong Aes Sedai are actually FROM the Age of Legends as far as we know), I still get annoyed with the plot device.  Especially when EUOL talks so much about breaking the cliches, I wish he would break the ones that annoy me rather than the ones that don't.

I think the reason I don't like this plot device is because it makes the magic less predictable for the readers - we think we understand its rules and limits, then the author says, "You don't know as much as you think you do, here's a character who can break those rules, there's always another secret, neener neener neener."

[happyman]

Yes, jjb, that's exactly what I was thinking.  And while it definitely helps to have a logical reason for Elend to be stronger (I don't remember there being a similar explanation in WoT, I mean it's not like Nynaeve and the other strong Aes Sedai are actually FROM the Age of Legends as far as we know), I still get annoyed with the plot device.  Especially when EUOL talks so much about breaking the cliches, I wish he would break the ones that annoy me rather than the ones that don't.

I think the reason I don't like this plot device is because it makes the magic less predictable for the readers - we think we understand its rules and limits, then the author says, "You don't know as much as you think you do, here's a character who can break those rules, there's always another secret, neener neener neener."

Except in this case, it isn't breaking the rules.  We already knew that the closer you were to a "noble" line, the stronger your Allomancy would be likely to be.  We already knew that it had gotten diluted over the years.  We also knew that it had come from somewhere.  In WoT, they seem to be pulling extra strength out of a hat, but here the logic is set up very cleanly.

Frankly, the only way you could complain about an Allomancer being too strong is if they were to be stronger than TLR.  Good luck.

[SarahG]

OK, you're right, I guess I was just letting my dislike of that cliche in other books spill over to this series and color my perception of it.  I guess EUOL has a right to make Elend stronger if he wants; he did set us up for it; I just wish he could have made the story work another way.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

I wouldn't worry about it so much, Sarah. You'll see.

[Comfortable Madness]

Yes, jjb, that's exactly what I was thinking.  And while it definitely helps to have a logical reason for Elend to be stronger (I don't remember there being a similar explanation in WoT, I mean it's not like Nynaeve and the other strong Aes Sedai are actually FROM the Age of Legends as far as we know), I still get annoyed with the plot device.  Especially when EUOL talks so much about breaking the cliches, I wish he would break the ones that annoy me rather than the ones that don't.

I think the reason I don't like this plot device is because it makes the magic less predictable for the readers - we think we understand its rules and limits, then the author says, "You don't know as much as you think you do, here's a character who can break those rules, there's always another secret, neener neener neener."

Except in this case, it isn't breaking the rules.  We already knew that the closer you were to a "noble" line, the stronger your Allomancy would be likely to be.  We already knew that it had gotten diluted over the years.  We also knew that it had come from somewhere.  In WoT, they seem to be pulling extra strength out of a hat, but here the logic is set up very cleanly.

Frankly, the only way you could complain about an Allomancer being too strong is if they were to be stronger than TLR.  Good luck.

I see your guys point here but in WoT I always thought it was because of the blood of Manetheren that  Nynaeve and Egwene are so strong. However, after reading Ookla's post it makes me believe that in the end Vin will the more powerful of the two. Then again he could just be saying that.

As far as the epigraphs go, as soon as I read it I had the distinct impression it was written by Elend.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Sarah isn't very interested by plots that depend on power levels, right?

[SarahG]

Right.  Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say I'm not very interested in characters whose chief point of interest is that they're the most powerful ever, thus requiring any new focal characters to have even greater power.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Then you won't be disappointed by this book.

[darxbane]

The epigraphs do sound rather scholarly, don't they?  I am sticking with Rashek myself, but it could be Sazed for all we know.  

As for power, technically someone could be come as powerful as Rashek if they were a Feruchemist who was also a first generation Allomancer and a Hemalurgist at the same time.  Of course, since Vin beat him by drawing upon the mists, her power level is open-ended.  I don't know if any other allomancers can do this, but I get the feeling she is different somehow.  There is one question I want answered, though.  Was Kelsier as strong as Vin?  She had the Bronze advantage due to her earring, but what about the other metals?  We may never know, I guess.

[SarahG]

Thanks, Ookla, that's good to know.  (Not that I really expected to be disappointed; I just thought I might be annoyed with that one aspect - just as, in the first couple books, I was annoyed at Spook's illogical speech even though I loved the books as a whole.)

[MattO]

Hey guys, new poster here.....I had a thought, maybe this has been discussed somewhere else is there anything stopping Vin from taking the 15th metal? Would that in turn make her as strong as Elend, or would that not have any effect, given that she already has Allomancy? Was there even more of it in the cave?

[Datakim]

The thing that worries me is that Vin will be diminished or play less of an important role in book 3. Vin was the character that was introduced in book1 as a scrawny kid and we have seen her grow into the character she is today. Because we have read so much more about her than Elend and since we saw her from the very beginning, I am more "attached" to her and have come to like her more than any of the other characters (including Elend).

However the one thing that has made Vin special from the beginning was the fact that she was such a powerfull and skilled at allomancy. She has done some other things but it cannot be denied that other characters were generally better at those things. Sazed is a brilliant researcher, Elend has far more political ability and so on. The one thing that made Vin irreplacable to the team was the fact that she was a mistborn.

Now however with Elend (and possibly others if they ate the metal) being so much more powerfull, I fear that Vin's role is being diminished. She is not unique anymore but simply one among many others. And since I like reading about Vin, I worry that this means that she will not play as big of a role in book3, now that what she can do can also be done by the others.

I suppose there is the whole burning mists thing, but she did it only once so for all we know it could have been a fluke. Or perhaps Elend can do it too (and better at that since he has more strength).

[bhthomas]

Maybe it was Elend's beard that made him so strong. Hes got some kind of Samson hair strength going on.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

As far as we saw in the book, the underground chamber only had that one bead of the metal that Elend swallowed.

[Comfortable Madness]

The thing that worries me is that Vin will be diminished or play less of an important role in book 3. Vin was the character that was introduced in book1 as a scrawny kid and we have seen her grow into the character she is today. Because we have read so much more about her than Elend and since we saw her from the very beginning, I am more "attached" to her and have come to like her more than any of the other characters (including Elend).

However the one thing that has made Vin special from the beginning was the fact that she was such a powerfull and skilled at allomancy. She has done some other things but it cannot be denied that other characters were generally better at those things. Sazed is a brilliant researcher, Elend has far more political ability and so on. The one thing that made Vin irreplacable to the team was the fact that she was a mistborn.

Now however with Elend (and possibly others if they ate the metal) being so much more powerfull, I fear that Vin's role is being diminished. She is not unique anymore but simply one among many others. And since I like reading about Vin, I worry that this means that she will not play as big of a role in book3, now that what she can do can also be done by the others.

I suppose there is the whole burning mists thing, but she did it only once so for all we know it could have been a fluke. Or perhaps Elend can do it too (and better at that since he has more strength).

I don't see her becoming diminished in this last book. Take, for example again, WoT, Rand is without a doubt the most powerful character but Matt still plays a huge role because of his personality and his own abilities. The same would go for Vin. If, and I mean IF, she is lower on the power scale than Elend she still is....well....Vin. Take this last chapter how she yells as she attacks the Koloss, which is awesome by the way, or the way when the inq cuts her she growls at him, awesome again. All five feet of her just a lovely ballet of death and defiance. That is why I do not fear her taking a back seat to anyone.