Author Topic: HOA Chapter 2  (Read 4209 times)

Andrew the Great

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HOA Chapter 2
« on: September 11, 2008, 04:06:12 AM »
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Chaos

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 04:20:59 AM »
First: Wow.

Second: Reading this epigraph makes me even more convicted it was Rashek who held the power.  At this moment, we only know of Vin and Rashek who held the power, and if it's Rashek, then these epigraphs will be sort of a way to show what he did when he held the power. The chances that it is someone else is pretty much nil, because what would be the point? Rashek changed things. He's the one we want to hear more from.

Third: Kandra are frickin' awesome. Other than the awesome points we get to see about how kandra work, there is "the Blessing of Presence". It's capitalized, so maybe we should discuss that further. It's probably really important.
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Czanos

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 04:52:40 AM »
Okay, third time around, here's what I've got this time . . .

Quote from: Mistborn: The Hero of Ages chapter 2
Holding the power did strange things to my mind. In just a few moments, I became familiar with the power itself, with its history, and with the ways it might be used.

Yet, this knowledge was different from experience, or even ability to use that power. For instance, I knew how to move a planet in the sky. Yet, I didn't know where to place it so that it wouldn't be too close, or too far, from the sun.
We know that whomever this Hero of Ages is, they actually held the power of the Well of Ascension. I'm personally going to chalk this up as more evidence of it being Rashek, because it would explain how he messed up the world so bad. For example, he moved the planet closer to the sun, causing the burnlands and making the regions around the poles habitable. (Possibly so he could survive with a capital city right over the Well of Ascension.)

This also leads into why the mist spirit attacked Elend. (Kinda.) If Vin wouldn't have been in such a hurry to save him, she might have had enough time to spend learning her abilities to guess at Ruin. Is the mist spirit perhaps an agent of Ruin? I mean, the deepness has some connection to Ruin, and the mist spirit is connected to the deepness. (Probably. In some fashion.) It could have been getting Vin to try and act without thinking, and maybe it cut Sazed's manuscript to make him tap his metalminds or something. Just some food for thought.

Quote
He could have created a set--he was of the Third Generation, which was old, even for a kandra.
Kandra society is very age based, they can breed offspring somehow, and the First Generation I would assume are the ones The Lord Ruler (Supposedly.) created a thousand years ago. This could be how Kandra religion survived, as there are still Kandra from before The Lord Ruler's reign. (Kind of.)

The next paragraph gives us some more inside info on how Kandra work. They do sound very similar to Mistwraiths, with the only difference I can see is the mental choice to discard all of one skeleton and only use one at a time. Perhaps Mistwraiths are just kandra on "vacation?"

Quote
But TenSoon had the Blessing of Presence. His mind would not give in easily.
I take it this is why Kandra believe they are of Preservation? It sounds a lot to me like Preservation gives them certain gifts, which would make sense if The Lord Ruler created them out of Preservation. (I can't articulate things properly today, but you get my drift.)

I'm getting lazy now, so I'll just make a small list of some info.
1. Kandra need to eat.
2. Is the gold on the bucket significant? (And curse Mistborn. I will never again be able to hear about a metal anything without thinking . . . "If these guys were fighting Allomancers, they'd be hosed." Especially Kandra. Oh well.)
3. Apparently, acid is the only way to kill a Kandra. We should sell this secret to the Allomancer's for cash and atium.
4.Why would TenSoon risk such a punishment? Has he sniffed out Ruin? Does he know Vin knows how to control Koloss?
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Andrew the Great

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 05:59:43 AM »
After a rather lengthy conversation with Chaos, we came to a few conclusions/crazy ideas.


Quote from: Mistborn: The Hero of Ages chapter 2
Holding the power did strange things to my mind. In just a few moments, I became familiar with the power itself, with its history, and with the ways it might be used.

Yet, this knowledge was different from experience, or even ability to use that power. For instance, I knew how to move a planet in the sky. Yet, I didn't know where to place it so that it wouldn't be too close, or too far, from the sun.

This is the basis for our coolest idea. We theorize that if Vin held the power for even the briefest instant (which she did, before she released it), her mind would have been altered, giving her critical knowledge. Like how hemalurgy and allomancy work, in great detail. However, she also could have not gotten as much because she didn't hold it as long.

Another interesting discussion was that Rashek may have actually been the Hero of Ages. He held the power and gained the knowledge of it. And really, after gaining allomancy and hemalurgy, he was the best equipped to be the hero of ages. Plus he doesn't seem arrogant or angry in the epigraphs (assuming it is him), just sad and tired.

Which brings me to our next discussion. The lord ruler may have left behind clues on how to defeat Ruin. I propose that an excellent location for these clues would be Statlin city. Chaos disagrees. Also, in the MB 3 product description, it says, "Having escaped death at the climax of The Well of Ascension only by becoming a Mistborn himself, Emperor Elend Venture hopes to find clues left behind by the Lord Ruler that will allow him to save the world." Which seems to support the clues thing. Thoughts?

Also, I will never again laugh when people go into discussions about astronomy and axial tilt of planets. The fact that that particular discussion turned out to be relevant is strangely ironic.

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Chaos

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 06:35:43 AM »
Actually... I think we got our ideas crossed there. My idea with the Lord Ruler was that, in fact, the Lord Ruler did leave clues behind.

My thought is that the Rashek, at first burning the power, had no idea what he was getting into. He changed things unintentionally, without knowing about the dire, dire consequences. However, notice the difference in tone between the MB3 epigraphs and the Lord Ruler in MB1. There's almost a hesitation in him, directly post-Ascension.

Perhaps his mind had broken into what he turned into later, consumed from the guilt from what he'd done, transforming him into the hard, cold Lord Ruler. However... before that...

During holding the power, he thought he destroyed the Deepness, but he only managed to push it back. No, he burned the power away before he could realize how to defeat Ruin truly. Holding the power could, perhaps, given him the knowledge to do what he needed to do, but he didn't do it properly. It was gone before he knew it. But later--perhaps--maybe he realized the true way to defeat it. To this extent, he placed the Well under Kredik Shaw, so that when the Well came back into power, he could ... finish the fight.

But before that, he probably would have left clues, maybe for his own use (if his metalminds couldn't be trusted). In fact, at Statlin City, there is one of two possibilities: A Clue, or one of these storehouses Elend has been raiding (or both). Notice that I distinctly exclude the possibility of the atium stash being there. This is because, narratively, it wouldn't work. There's a year between MB2 and 3. I'm sure Elend or Vin would've investigated Statlin City in that amount of time. Thus, if they investigated it and found what was there, it would all be off-screen. The atium stash is too big of a plot point to happen off-screen. Thus, it's more likely it's a clue. Or a storehouse. Or both.

I need to elaborate on the Vin knowledge thing. Since reading MB2, I've always wondered how our heroes would learn of Hemalurgy. The Lord Ruler isn't alive to tell it, and Marsh would be more likely to kill them than have a nice conversation about the basis of his power. Now, in our chat online, Andrew brings up the point that clearly, we now have Marsh viewpoints, so we could definitely get a lot of information from there. However, if we are correct (assuming you buy the theory about the earring being Hemalurgically imbued), then Vin will need an understanding of Hemalurgy to release her full potential.

Who would tell her. No Lord Ruler... no Marsh... definitely not any Feruchemists, since Marsh purged the Synod. The list--at least of characters we know of--becomes to... none. Except... Vin, maybe?

My first thought was that perhaps since Vin didn't use the power, she wouldn't get that knowledge. But then I realize that it's the holding of the power that gives you the knowledge (possibly giving Rashek knowledge of Allomancy and Hemalurgy), not the use of it. In fact, if Rashek was consumed by guilt over using the power wrong, well, then Vin actually has it a little better. She only has to be consumed with guilt that she released an almost invincible force of nature (I wonder which shatters the mind more...). Anywho... she still held the power. Which means it is possible that Vin knows the answers already.

We won't know for sure until we get in Vin's viewpoint, but it's a theory all right.

Also, my undeveloped thought is that the Hero need not be someone specific. It could be anyone... even Rashek, but maybe he just didn't use the power right.

Finally, whoever had that conversation about astronomy and axial tilts of planets has my gratitude. I shall never mock such things ever again.
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Andrew the Great

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 02:28:41 PM »
Not as much disagreement as you might think. I actually am with you on most things (with the exception of Statlin City). I just don't take as much time to worry about phrasing it in a way that's not confusing.
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darxbane

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 03:44:05 PM »
I think the knowledge fades away once the power is gone.  Rashek (or whoever wrote the bump) talks of his experience while using the power, but he may not remember how to do the things he did once the power was gone.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

Chaos

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2008, 05:12:54 PM »
Not as much disagreement as you might think. I actually am with you on most things (with the exception of Statlin City). I just don't take as much time to worry about phrasing it in a way that's not confusing.

You just must have confused me then :P.

I think the knowledge fades away once the power is gone.  Rashek (or whoever wrote the bump) talks of his experience while using the power, but he may not remember how to do the things he did once the power was gone.

That's quite a viable theory. We'll know for sure when we get the book.
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kevinpii

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2008, 05:29:22 PM »
A Clue, or one of these storehouses Elend has been raiding (or both). Notice that I distinctly exclude the possibility of the atium stash being there. This is because, narratively, it wouldn't work. There's a year between MB2 and 3. I'm sure Elend or Vin would've investigated Statlin City in that amount of time. Thus, if they investigated it and found what was there, it would all be off-screen. The atium stash is too big of a plot point to happen off-screen. Thus, it's more likely it's a clue. Or a storehouse. Or both.


i always kind of assumed all the atium went into the well. thats where it got all of its power.

Miyabi

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 07:24:23 PM »
Atium powering well = no.

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Elmandr

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 09:28:45 PM »
I only hope it is Rashek. That would help reveal what he meant when he said, in the end of bk1: "you dont know what i do for you..."

Now that we have come this far. Does anyone have any updated theories on what exactly was it he meant?

I personally think he might have been the only one who could know how to use the power, not really well but better than anyother man. I think that not only was he a Terris man but i believe that his emphasis or specialty was Nature.

Idk. What do you guys think?
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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 03:56:09 AM »

Gold lined bucket - The gold is used because it is EXTREMELY non-corrosive so the acid wouldn't eat through the gold and through the bucket.


Beat me to it. This is why gold was thought to be a "noble metal", because it was immune to acids which would burn through iron or copper or tin.

I like the description of the kandra's physiology... Brandon is always good at providing an example that translates... I've got a much clearer idea now of how they look and move, and it is disgustipatin'. Like super slugs in a skin sack, eewwwwww...

 What color are the kandra again, when in this base state?

Czanos

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 04:11:23 AM »
The chapter says that kandra are translucent, and I think they might have a slight bluish hue. (From the description of Mistwraiths and the whole Kandra/Koloss cousin deal. Also, did anyone notice that steel/iron lines are also blue? I wonder if it's important.)
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A man called Hope.

Andrew the Great

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 04:36:23 AM »
It's possible, though if it is then it's changed since mistborn prime. In MB Prime, steel lines are red. That took some getting used to.
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Miyabi

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Re: HOA Chapter 2
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 07:13:05 AM »
The chapter says that kandra are translucent, and I think they might have a slight bluish hue. (From the description of Mistwraiths and the whole Kandra/Koloss cousin deal. Also, did anyone notice that steel/iron lines are also blue? I wonder if it's important.)
The blue probably just represents a link to the magic.
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