Author Topic: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.  (Read 1716 times)

Omelethead

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Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« on: September 04, 2008, 12:52:36 AM »
You have cost me so many hours of sleep.   >:( ;D

No, but seriously I have really enjoyed these books. I'm (im)patiently waiting for October, and I've been following the blog and the forum here fairly closely.

I first heard about Mr. Sanderson when it was announced that he was going to finish The Wheel of Time. I remember thinking, "Who? Great, they hired the cheapest bidder or something, didn't they?"

But then, I heard good things about him. People posted to say they thought he was a good choice. He actually posted on our board (at Wotmania) and eased some fears. So I decided I would at least check his stuff out. Signed up at Tor for their e-book giveaway, and started reading the Final Empire. And finished it, about a day later. And searched the internet for more books by Mr. Sanderson. And then found out that not only was he an amazing fantasy author, he lived in Utah, and he was a Mormon! And I know, I know. that kind of stuff shouldn't matter. But I thought it was pretty awesome. Plus, he went to BYU. (Go Cougars!)

I searched everywhere, and I couldn't find the Well of Ascension in any library, bookstore, anywhere. Gave up, then found it at my local grocery store, of all places. I read it whenever I had spare time, and had to beat my brother away (looking back, I should have got him hooked after I had already read all the books).

By now, I no longer doubt or have any concern about AMOL. I know that it will turn out amazing, and they picked the right guy for the job.


So that's my history, and kind of my introductory post.


But I'm really posting to talk about Elantris. I just barely finished it today, and I guess I missed all the discussions on it. Everyone's talking about Mistborn (and I have been diligently following all the topics), but maybe this will be a nice distraction while we wait for October. Or maybe you'll all copy+paste your old posts and replies. Either way:

I guess because I went "backward" and read Mistborn first, then Elantris, I did a lot of comparing between the two stories. The books are kind of similar. Strong female lead, interesting magic systems (I prefer the ones in MB, personally), strong religious presence in both (more so in Elantris, IMO), surprising plot twists, and both are good, exciting books. Shuden and Galladon both reminded me slightly of Sazed (one of my favorite characters), but not too much.

To me though, it was apparent that Elantris was his first novel. Extremely good, better than many books I've read, but he definitely got better and worked out some kinks before Mistborn. I'm not talking story-wise, the story in Elantris was very good. Mistborn just flowed better, and seemed more... polished. It feels kind of weird saying that here, where I know a lot of his friends and family hang out, and he supposedly visits from time to time, but if any of them are reading this, I don't mean to sound critical. Any complaints or questions here are minor things in my head.


As for the Elantrians, and the Reod/Shaod, I thought that it was very interesting concept, and it was described so well that I remember my toe hurting whenever there was a Raoden PoV there for a while. The society in Elantris (or lack thereof), was interesting and believable. I enjoyed Raoden's schemes for New Elantris. His banter with Galladon was fun (and reminded me of Kelsier's crew's banter sometimes) (that's not a bad thing).

Hrathen was interesting, and sufficiently gray for me (I very much prefer gray to black or white in my stories). He was working for the destruction of what the Good Guys™ believed in, but he did have good intentions. He had doubt, he had his own enemies, I really enjoyed his character, though I enjoyed his PoV the least of the three (which doesn't mean much).

Sarene was interesting. I thought of the Aes Sedia Sarene the first time I saw her name (Yeah, I'm a geek ;D), but I got over that quick enough. I liked how she presented such a strong, confident air, but her inner thoughts were often anything but.

One complaint however, was that the Good Guys™ were too competent. I remember cringing when Lukel (I think it was Lukel) mentioned how Raoden was good at everything but cards. However, their struggles were intense, and the suspense, especially at the end, was incredible. I couldn't see any way out of the Blue Pool/Lake.

I do have one big question though. How could the Seons survive if their Aons were rendered obsolete/incomplete? Wouldn't they die/decay like Elantris and the Elantrians did? I was very interested in the Seons, and was disappointed we didn't find out more about them, and where exactly they came from. Oh well. I notice Mr. Sanderson has tentative plans for a sequel.

I'll probably edit in some more questions, but I need to wait for my mind to settle a bit. It's still a little too fresh.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2008, 02:49:57 AM »
Welcome. There's a lot more of Brandon's books to come.

Elantris was actually Brandon's 6th book, and Mistborn was his 14th. He definitely did improve over time. :)
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GreenMonsta

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2008, 08:55:08 PM »
You also could have posted your intro in the Introduce Yourself thread located on this forum. If your new its a good read to find out things about other posters
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Miyabi

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2008, 09:17:15 PM »
Welcome.  It's good to meet you.  I'll look forward to things that you have to say and to hear any input you will have on future threads.

;D

Random notes:

-Originally the 'Mistborn' series had a male lead named Vin, but then EUOL (Brandon's SN) decided that it worked better as a female roll when he converted it from Prime to Mistborn. 

-I think Elantris was meant to focus mainly on Religious/Governmental/Social corruption.  Mistborn was more focused on defeating an unbeatable foe and learning to trust in oneself.  (IMO: TLR was an allegory to our own self-doubt.)

A few notes on your posts about Elantris :

-I wondered the same thing about the Seons.  I think though, that because they are created there is a massive amount of power stored in them (in order to sustain cognition) and they run off of their own power, not the land's power like everything else.  We do see that if their master is taken by the Shaod that they go insane.  I think this has to do with the sudden connection to the power of the land and its defectiveness.

-Hrathen did do what he thought was right for the people, but then again don't most "bad guys" think that what they're doing is the right thing?  I really loved Hrathen's perspectives and he was actually my favorite to read, because you are given insight and understanding as to why the bad guy is doing what they are doing, not just a "they're doing it."

-Raoden may have been competent, but I don't think it didn't come at a cost.  He WAS a prince.  He must have spent many hours a day in classes on sociology, philosophy, fighting, etc.

On a side note:

-Going back a few pages and reviving those old Elantris threads is perfectly acceptable so long as you have something useful to say or a competent question. ;)

-Also, you can buy 'The Hope of Elantris' for only $.49.  It gives you an extra chapter that is a nice read.

Again, welcome to the boards and I hope to see more of you.
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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2008, 10:04:27 PM »
-Also, you can buy 'The Hope of Elantris' for only $.49.  It gives you an extra chapter that is a nice read.

Or you can just click on this link since the contract ran out with amazon.
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Miyabi

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2008, 10:13:18 PM »
I overlooked that. ha ha.  Oh well, it was only fifty cents. ;)
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VegasDev

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2008, 10:18:28 PM »
I overlooked that. ha ha.  Oh well, it was only fifty cents. ;)

They could always click on the donate link and send 50 cents directly to Brandon after they read. I haven't read it myself yet.
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Miyabi

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2008, 10:27:15 PM »
Yeah.
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GreenMonsta

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 10:31:04 PM »
If you have read Elantris you should read the short. Its not all that involved but its good to read and fills in a little of the story we missed.
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VegasDev

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 10:42:26 PM »
Brandon had me at Elantris.

The story was complete in my eyes, but it was almost like they won the battle but not the war and I would have liked to hear more of that war in subsequent books. That's probably not going to happen juding from comments, but oh well.

This short story from my understanding only explains where Ashe was near the end of the book. That wasn't a missing gap in my opinion but I'll probably get around to reading it sometime.
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Miyabi

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 10:45:21 PM »
Not just Ashe actually, it discusses what's happening within New Elantris throughout the big battle.
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GreenMonsta

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 11:19:29 PM »
If you ever wondered how the New Elantrians figured out how to drw the new Aeons and how they ended up jumping to save Raoden? This story explains it
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Miyabi

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 11:24:03 PM »
If you ever wondered how the New Elantrians figured out how to drw the new Aeons and how they ended up jumping to save Raoden? This story explains it
It doesn't explicitly explain how they figured out how to make new ones, it just says they do.
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Omelethead

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 11:58:17 PM »
I'm quoting parts of Miyabi's reply, but I don't know how to show that other than writing it here ???. Dang, I'm a n00b again.

Quote
Random notes:

-Originally the 'Mistborn' series had a male lead named Vin, but then EUOL (Brandon's SN) decided that it worked better as a female roll when he converted it from Prime to Mistborn.
-A male lead? That's interesting. But yeah, the female role does work better. Most fantasy males are macho tough guys *cough*Kelsier*cough*, so a more vulnerable PoV works better from a female. (I'm not trying to be sexist or anything.)

Quote
-I think Elantris was meant to focus mainly on Religious/Governmental/Social corruption.  Mistborn was more focused on defeating an unbeatable foe and learning to trust in oneself.  (IMO: TLR was an allegory to our own self-doubt.)

Yeah, I agree. Elantris was shown from the powerful rulers' PoV, and Mistborn from the common peasant.

I don't think Rashek represents self-doubt. I think the concept of the lord ruler, back when we thought he was both the writer of the logbook and TLR, would be closer. (That may have been what you meant though.)

Quote
-I wondered the same thing about the Seons.  I think though, that because they are created there is a massive amount of power stored in them (in order to sustain cognition) and they run off of their own power, not the land's power like everything else.  We do see that if their master is taken by the Shaod that they go insane.  I think this has to do with the sudden connection to the power of the land and its defectiveness.

I like the idea that it is the sudden connection to the "new" land and new Aons that drives them mad. Although it would almost make more sense for them to explode or short out once the connection renders their old Aon obsolete.

Quote
-Hrathen did do what he thought was right for the people, but then again don't most "bad guys" think that what they're doing is the right thing?  I really loved Hrathen's perspectives and he was actually my favorite to read, because you are given insight and understanding as to why the bad guy is doing what they are doing, not just a "they're doing it."

I guess I didn't clarify enough. Yeah, most baddies do think that they're in the right. But Hrathen truly wanted to save the people. At first it was for his ego, but I felt like at the end he truly cared for Arelon. He thought he was doing what was best for the people, while most villains (like Dilaf, for example) want their enemies to die bloody deaths. Dilaf thought he was in the right too, but I don't think even he could convince himself that everything he did was right.


Quote
-Going back a few pages and reviving those old Elantris threads is perfectly acceptable so long as you have something useful to say or a competent question. Wink

-Also, you can buy 'The Hope of Elantris' for only $.49.  It gives you an extra chapter that is a nice read.

Again, welcome to the boards and I hope to see more of you.


I didn't know that posting in really old threads was... kosher ;D. I'll remember that next time.

And yeah, I read the Hope of Elantris. I really like the backstory on it (why he wrote it). I can't imagine what that would feel like, for Mr. Sanderson or Matisse (the 8th grader).



And thanks to everyone for the welcome. I'm still getting used to this style of forum/messageboard, so I think I'll combine repies when I can for a while. Try and hide my n00bness as much as possible.  :)

Miyabi

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Re: Curse you Mr. Sanderson, curses.
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2008, 12:57:18 AM »
I'm quoting parts of Miyabi's reply, but I don't know how to show that other than writing it here ???. Dang, I'm a n00b again.
In order to quote the way I did on this reply you click the "Quote" button in the top right portion of their post.  Then it's just a lot of copy pasting the 'quote' tags.  It's chill.  We were all new once. I'd classify you as a newb though, not a n00b; you're cool. ;)

-A male lead? That's interesting. But yeah, the female role does work better. Most fantasy males are macho tough guys *cough*Kelsier*cough*, so a more vulnerable PoV works better from a female. (I'm not trying to be sexist or anything.)
I could just imagine Elend courting some young heir to a large family estate in Luthadel.  That would be pretty cool. xD


Yeah, I agree. Elantris was shown from the powerful rulers' PoV, and Mistborn from the common peasant.
A powerful ruler who had his power stripped away then had to regain what he had before building up from nothing. ha ha.

I don't think Rashek represents self-doubt. I think the concept of the lord ruler, back when we thought he was both the writer of the logbook and TLR, would be closer. (That may have been what you meant though.)
I'm not saying "Rashek" resembles it.  He just felt more entitled that he should have.  I'm saying that "TLR" and his oppressive rule resemble the type of control our own self-doubt takes over our day to day lives.

I like the idea that it is the sudden connection to the "new" land and new Aons that drives them mad. Although it would almost make more sense for them to explode or short out once the connection renders their old Aon obsolete.
The Elantrians didn't explode when they were taken by the Shaod. . . just became deficient.

I guess I didn't clarify enough. Yeah, most baddies do think that they're in the right. But Hrathen truly wanted to save the people. At first it was for his ego, but I felt like at the end he truly cared for Arelon. He thought he was doing what was best for the people, while most villains (like Dilaf, for example) want their enemies to die bloody deaths. Dilaf thought he was in the right too, but I don't think even he could convince himself that everything he did was right.
Yes.  I really liked Hrathen.  He was doing what he truly believed to be right for the people.  I just want to learn a lot more about his religion and history!

I didn't know that posting in really old threads was... kosher ;D. I'll remember that next time.
Well it's cool so long as you don't post on something and say something that is completely unintelligible.

And yeah, I read the Hope of Elantris. I really like the backstory on it (why he wrote it). I can't imagine what that would feel like, for Mr. Sanderson or Matisse (the 8th grader).
Yes, it was a very wonderful little story. ;D

And thanks to everyone for the welcome. I'm still getting used to this style of forum/messageboard, so I think I'll combine repies when I can for a while. Try and hide my n00bness as much as possible.  :)
N/P.  You'll catch on soon enough.
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