Mistborn 2: Will it become bareable after Part 2? (Spoilers)

[Anaphyis]

i would definitely say Final Empire was better, but the ending of MB2 is by no means dissapointing. You did not really flesh out your opinions on Elend but i did find myself disliking him, when i really did like him a lot in FE.
And yes you should definitely finish the book, the ending is epic and sets the stage for Hero of Ages!!

plus, would it even be possible for you to read half a book, post and ask opinions on it, and then not read the rest? IMPOSSIBLE!!!

Well, I don't know if I had never finished the book if others told me not to get my expectations too high. I would however dropped it for another one in my pile and perhaps made another attempt on WoA when I had more time again. That said, the book really made up for most of the dry streaks after part 4 or so and I find it hard now to wait for Hero of Ages.

About Elend (full rant, as requested. Don't say I didn't try to be nice and subtle ...)

I think it was Brandon's intention to put Elend in Kell's footprints to show how inept he is for the job that is expected of him in the beginning (which Elend moans about quite a bit) and then let him grow over the course of the book to fill these footprints a bit better. While he was a wide eyed, naive and sympathetic character in TFE and this character development might work out quite well for him in the third book, it was a chore to get through Elend's more angsty phases in WoA. To illustrate the point, Elend means misery/distress/unhappiness in German, an unhealthy connotation which fits quite too well sometimes.

Furthermore and one thing which annoyed me greatly about this, many chapters of the book contain at least one slightly negative to outright demeaning comment about Kelsier. While it is important to make clear that Kelsier had his shares of flaws, the massive quantity of these comments came around to me more like Brandon is saying "Hey, forget about Kelsier! Look at Elend, he is the real deal and way better then this douchebag!" which had the opposite effect on me.

Also Vin seems to suffer from quite a dose of Cassandra when around Elend. While most of the characters ramble on about trust all the time, especially Elend outright dismisses several of Vin's warnings and worries with a patronizing pat on the head. Despite the fact that a) He should know better after all this time (Sazed does - mostly)  b) He has no experience or deeper knowledge about how Allomancy and the mist works yet doubts the words of a damn Mistborn and c) Toward the end of the book he definitly knows better and still does this several times.

This added to the large amount of viewpoints centered around Elend compared to the other major characters, the downright hypocritical "I'm ashamed of you" scene with Spook, the "Get a level of Mistborn" metal at the end and my worries about turning the character dynamic between Vin and Elend into one of these "Get back in the kitchen heroine, now it's time for the man to rise way above you in power level and handle things" plots I've seen way too much in fantasy ... let's just say that Brandon has to pull of something only marginally short of a miracle (or a "he is definitely and forever dead, Jim" scene) to make this character redeem himself in my eyes.

[darxbane]

Wow, it is amazing how differently interpretation works between people.  I beleive this book shows Human frailty very well.  Most of the "negative" Kelsier moments are actually endearing.  They miss him greatly and wish he was still around, because he would know what to do.  Blaming him for the results of his plan, for the responsibility he expounded on them, and, most importantly, for knowing them better than they knew themselves, is a natural reaction, in my opinion.  I read no indication that anyone wanted Elend over Kelsier.  In fact, it was Vin that the people were looking to to save them.  Kelsier is not coming back.  They need to move on.  Besides, who's to say that Kelsier would have done a better job had he remained alive?  He probably would have tried to take on Straff's armies by himself.  Elend's character grew tremendously in this book, and I can understand why he didn't listen to Vin as closely as he probably should.  He had the whole city under siege, fill Kelsier's shoes, run a new government, learn to become a King thing going on (not to mention Vin refusing his first marriage proposal - that one's on her for not trusting his decisions due to her lack of self confidence).  He also realizes his mistake and tells her he trusts her no matter what she decides to do.  I don't want to make this too big a wall o text, and I look forward to your response.  I love a good debate.

[Comfortable Madness]

This seems like the thread to express your dislikes about the Mistborn series thus far so I'll chime in with a little something. Although, before I get to that I must first say that I loved TFE and really liked WoA.....

The only thing I did not like about WoA was that Elend and Vin came off a little whiny and depressed. I mean how much crap have they both been through at this point already? In my opinion the trials, especially Vin, that they have faced in life would have battle hardened them. I think that they should have more grit and toughness to them. Also, in line with that, is pretty much everyone lacks any sort of self-confidence. Everyone short of Zane that is and ironically that leads to his eventual demise.

[darxbane]

Zane's self-confidence comes from his acceptance of insanity.  I imagine it is easy to have no fear when you also have no hope.  Besides, he has Atium and she didn't so what reason would he have to worry?  No one had any recollection of an atium user being defeated by someone who wasnt using it. 
   I also didn't find Elend and Vin all that whiny.  It is easy to look at someone's problems and say "come on, get over it".  Let me ask you though, do you have a bad habit or character flaw that you just can't seem to break?  Easier said than done isn't it?  Vin has been told she was worthless her whole life  That doesn't go away overnight.  Elend, on the other hand, just got a full and unmerciful shot of reality.  He was quite inexperienced at the beginning.  He is also king of a fledgling government, and is less than 25 years old.  I know it's  not exactly studying for Midterms pressure, but I'll cut him some slack .  Everyone is out of their element, and are adapting to their new roles.  Oh yeah, let's not forget that they are surrounded by armies of people who want to kill them all.  That would wear on my mind a little.  I actually would have been upset if they hadn't been fumbling around. 

[Miyabi]

What I was afraid of were fanboys telling me how stupid I was for not liking Teh best b00k evar!!1! What I wanted was a more earnest opinion and surprisingly, that's the only thing I got. Which gives me hope for the internet - Thank you for that 

You know I find this to be very true. People here aren't very quick to judge other posters in opinion or anything. (except the occasional spelling correction miyabi. jk) I find it very nice to be able to hop on TWG and express opinions about EUOLs books without anything unnecessary involved. I'm still new to this whole thing so I’m still surprised with how well it works out sometimes.

Who me?    I would NEVER! ha ha.

[Comfortable Madness]

Zane's self-confidence comes from his acceptance of insanity.  I imagine it is easy to have no fear when you also have no hope.  Besides, he has Atium and she didn't so what reason would he have to worry?  No one had any recollection of an atium user being defeated by someone who wasnt using it. 
   I also didn't find Elend and Vin all that whiny.  It is easy to look at someone's problems and say "come on, get over it".  Let me ask you though, do you have a bad habit or character flaw that you just can't seem to break?  Easier said than done isn't it?  Vin has been told she was worthless her whole life  That doesn't go away overnight.  Elend, on the other hand, just got a full and unmerciful shot of reality.  He was quite inexperienced at the beginning.  He is also king of a fledgling government, and is less than 25 years old.  I know it's  not exactly studying for Midterms pressure, but I'll cut him some slack .  Everyone is out of their element, and are adapting to their new roles.  Oh yeah, let's not forget that they are surrounded by armies of people who want to kill them all.  That would wear on my mind a little.  I actually would have been upset if they hadn't been fumbling around. 

I understand your point on them fumbling around and such so as to come off as more realistic characters. However, they just came off a little too whiny and unsure of themselves for my liking. I mean Vin destroyed TLR. A man whom she used to think was a living god. You'd think she would get pretty sure of herself shortly after. You do bring up good points about them being young and being thrown into a heap of problems that they themselves are trying to fix. Maybe I just put to much pressure on heroes in fantasy novels. All in all they are great characters and I am really nit-picking here.....

[darxbane]

I appreciate your opinion, Madness.  It is good to see things differently then others.  It would be a boring existence otherwise.  I too wonder about her feelings about killing TLR.  Sometimes I think she convinces herself that she just got lucky, or that he was not really a god, just a man with a really powerful trick to beat death.  She is a master at making herself seem small, so good in fact that she even convinces herself at times.  I do agree that this feat should have been enough to give her some confidence, at least.

[SarahG]

I agree with you, darxbane.  And in a sense, she's right that it was mostly luck that allowed her to figure out TLR's trick and defeat him.  That is, it also took a great deal of courage and perseverance and Allomantic skill, but in the end it was a lucky guess that tipped the balance in her favor.  I can see why she wouldn't suddenly feel invincible as a result.  I wouldn't.

[GreenMonsta]

Vin also doesn't quite understand how she beat TLR. I'm sure she knows that she somehow drew on the mist and was able to use the metal that was inside TLR but she still doesnt understand it and she has yet been able to repeat it. So I kinda understand her lack of confidence. I mean really if you supposedly knew how something worked and you were confident in that knowlage and then all of the sudden something you didn't understand happend instead wouldn't you lack a little confidence in what happened? Especialy if you couldnt reproduce the result.

[happyman]

Along these lines, I expect her to be even less confident in the next book than she was in the last.

They may have resolved the political issues around the city to some extent, but they have much bigger problems now.  If they have any brains at all, they realize that they knew much less about the world than they needed to.  At the end of WoA, Vin is starting to realize how thoroughly she was manipulated; no doubt she will figure it out even more if/when she hears Sazed's part of the story.

All of this leads into the fact that Vin may wonder just how much of her defeating TLR was really her own doing.  So, yeah.  I don't expect her to become less "whiny."  Which is just another name for the inadequacy most people feel, Vin more than most.  She may get over it, but probably by virtue of doing extraordinary things.

[Miyabi]

Brandon did say that the bump before chapter one of TFE would give us the main theme of the entire history.

What would they think if they knew their hero doubted himself.

Or something like that[/color]

[GreenMonsta]

Can you blame them??