Author Topic: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy  (Read 9333 times)

darxbane

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 09:06:07 PM »
I think there is relevance to our points.  by looking into Rashek's history, it may help us better understand that first epigraph.  After all, he did have piercings on his arms.  If that statement is more literal than I believe it to be, that may have great significance.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

Andrew the Great

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2008, 12:00:37 AM »
By no means did I mean to imply that your points did not have relevance, nor that you couldn't make them. I simply was asking that you include your thoughts on the epigraph as well when we do run off after that shiny new train. Please do discuss the LR's background, I just also want to hear if you think there is something else that could be the clue Brandon was talking about, or if you think my idea is correct/incorrect and why, etc, etc, etc.

Please discuss the Lord Ruler's background to your heart's content. But include the thread topic as well.

I think the journal's location in the altar room has some significance, considering that it is the only religious location we see in MB1. It was found in a religious area, so I think it's probably not a think back on the good times thing. The Hero of Ages reference thing makes more sense to me.
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AvalonDreamer

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2008, 02:42:13 PM »
Is it said anywhere that the epigraph comes concretely from the journal, or alendi/rashek at all? (my copy of TFE is in my office and I don't feel like getting it...) What if that blurb was written by Vin at some point?
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darxbane

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2008, 06:19:50 PM »
EUOL has said that the epigraphs are all from the Journal in book 1, and Kwaan's steel plate in book 2.  I am reading Elantris now, but I will start to reread Mistborn again when I am done. 
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2008, 01:27:21 AM »
The epigraph at the end of book one always puzzles me.  It's the one about ALendi feeling peace inside him (like he's being soothed?) because he knows if he fails another will arise to take his place.  This passage is never mentioned anywhere else in the books, and you think Vin would have read it, considereing it directly states the hero will come again.

The way it's arranged, it also seems like it comes after the "tommorow it will end" bit, which we know is the end of the journal.  Iwas wondering, if perhaps, that epigraph was never written, and is just what Alendi was thinking at the time.  ThoughtS??

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Andrew the Great

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2008, 10:13:56 PM »
I seem to recall Brandon saying in his annotations that most of the epigraphs were in order, but not all. This could be one of the exceptions.
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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2008, 06:34:23 AM »
I know that, but the way the section was written, it's jsut a hunch, based totally on my instincts (meager though they are), that it comes after the last epigraph in the actual log book.  I think this beause it seems to come after the sections that come directly before the "tommorow it will end" bit, and we know those are right together from when Vin reads them right from the book.
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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2008, 01:55:47 PM »
Possibly it could be something Alendi never wrote, or something he wrote somewhere else. Or Vin was tired and reading fast and didn't really notice it. I'm not really sure how it works, but I'm inclined to believe it is part of the logbook.
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Vintage

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2008, 02:50:02 PM »
It is part of the logbook. Also, after compiling it, I can confirm that it is not in order. It came to me also, from what I did read, that actually, Alendi might have gone to the Well of Ascension and acted. He stipulates that he HAS SEEN the future that will come to pass if he does take the power for himself. Now, Vin sees a future when the Well's liquid gets into her and she is faced with questions. However, it seems that Alendi had sometime to take his decisison. Most likely, Rashek killed him after. Would you think that Alendi's blood power, if it happened that way, could have been used as sacrifice for Rashek's hemalurgical powers ? I'll bring some quotes once I am home with my notes...

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2008, 10:52:13 PM »
Would you think that Alendi's blood power, if it happened that way, could have been used as sacrifice for Rashek's hemalurgical powers ? I'll bring some quotes once I am home with my notes...

That makes a lot of sense to me. It solves the problem of who is blood sacrifice is (assuming he had to have one...). Also, you have the full logbook compiled? Want to post that somewhere? That would be amazing. I was actually going to do that, but if you already have it, it saves me a lot of work.
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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2008, 03:10:31 AM »
Ya, that would be awesome Vintage!!!  I was going to also, but I never have time!
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Vintage

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2008, 04:08:30 AM »
I don't feel comfortable about printing it on internet just like that, but yes, I have it all compiled. I will e-mail it to you if you left your e-mail address in your profile. Otherwise, I will be waiting for you to give it to me. I will send it to whoever ask for it as long as you showed some interest in the question to begin with.

So here as promised. I have the logbook beside me. 7 pages of it !


Chap. 5 - The Terris philosophers (which were already corrupted by Ruin) told Alendi that when he will be faced with his choices, he will know his duty - When Vin is at the Well, is it Vin's reflexion on the logbook which tells her not to keep the power for herself  or is it Ruin still murmuring to her ?

Chap. 6 - Funny thing, it seems that the Deepness could only be defeated in Terris, not only as per the philosophers saying but also because Alendi could feel the pulsing of the Well.

Chap. 14 - Here is the first mention about shadows that follow him. And in chap. 20, not only does he change his mind about it not being a shadow, but it passes from plural to singular. Well, he describes it well enough that we know that it is the Mist Spirit. But what I notice now is that he first describe it as a "dark forg. Or mist, perhaps." We do know now that the mist is at the base of the three magic systems. Therefore, the mist had to be around during the time feruchemy came to be however this happened. Therefore, Alendi does not say a dark mist, he says a dark fog, and gets more precise in saying "or mist", as if a dark fog would be mist. But... if this is the case, the sun, in those days was still yellow, and the grass, still green. Could there be mist and ashfalls only at night ? Or could its darkness not come from the ash as I previously thought ?

Chap. 22 talks of the Deepness as briging a blight that infected nearly every part of the land. Armies are useless before it. Great cities are laid low by its power. Crops fail, and the land dies. I must admit that Vin's deduction puts us on tract here. I would tend to follow her line of thought, but also, I do wonder... Eventhough the Terris countryside was before described as a green environment, could it be that in some part of the earth there could already be some brownish plants ? Could it be a type of slow poison ? I am no botanist, I have no clue, really, beside the word "blight" and the accent on the crops and land and not on people, as we now see with the mist killing people.

Chap. 23, Alendi confirms that the pulsing from the mountains is drawing him closer.

Chap. 27 mentions the piercings of the Hero, but there is no more indication for it.

Chap. 28 talks more of the Deepness.

Quote
I have seen it, and I have felt it. This name we give it is too weak a word, I think. Yes, it is deep and unfathomable, but it is also terrible. Many do not realize that it is sentient, but I have sensed its mind, such that it is, the few times I have confronted it directly.
It is a thing of destruction, madness, and corruption. It would destroy this world not out of spite or  out of animosity, but simply because that is what it does.

Now let's read p.577 of MB2

Quote
"What happened ?" he asked.
She shook her head, leaning against the stones of the battlement. She could still hear that terrible, booming voice. I am FREE...
...
"What happened to the power ? Ham didn't have a straight answer for me, and all anyone else knows are rumors."
"I set something free", she whispered. "Something that shouldn't have been released; something that led me to the Well. I should never have gone looking for it, Elend."
Elend stood in silence, still regarding the city.
She turned, burying her head in his chest. "It was terrible," she said. "I could feel that. And I set it free."

Do you see the similitude ? Both the Deepness and whatever was liberated at the Well have the same description. Same words. I would say they are brothers... or father and son.

Now chap. 32 brings answers maybe to a few questions that we did ask. We learn that Terrismen were speaking with awe about the beauties and wonder of Khlenni, especially its cathedrals, with their amazing stained glass windows and broad halls. Also, young Terrismen, back to the city would trade their furs and skins for well-tailored gentlemen's suits. Well, one thousand years later, the windows of Kredik Shaw were still of stained glass and the halls of every keep and palace were broad all right ! Could Luthadel actually be Khlenni ? At least we do know why Rashek had those windows tainted now.

Chap. 33 brings another hint I think. It was said that only in Terris could the Deepness be defeated, but here it is said that the altitude was somehow affecting it a natural way and that the Deepness was loosing its oppressive touch. This part of the logbook also talks about Fedik which the Mist Spirit attacked. It is Fedik that discovered the metal lake and Alendi expresses his regret that he did not let him take a sample of the liquid. Note that Alendi does not talk of wanting to get to the lake himself. He only rejoices because now Fedik has seen the Mist Spirit also.

 Chap. 35 Alendi talks about the choice he has to make. Somehow he has seen what would happen if he would take the power for himself. Vin also saw a future when filled with the Well's liquid. Now how did Alendi see the future if it is not at the Well ? This is partly what bugs me. Would it be possible that Alendi did not have to take his choice right at the moment when the Well's liquid got into him - if he went that far, of course. But this is what really make me wonder. Would it be possible that Alendi would have been filed with the well's liquid, seen the future, and then take his decision about the power only after a little while ? And after a last ode to the yellow sun in chapter 37, Alendi expresses his fears of Rashek in the last chapter.

Could it be possible that still in the Well, still filed with the liquid, Rashek could have ceased his chance (Kwaan had said in his steel plate that Alendi was very hard to surprise and very strong, so much he was not sure Rashek could get him), jump in the Well (now dry) and killed Alendi right then ? The liquid that did not want to mix with Elend's blood would have perfectly mixed with Alendi's blood like this, no ? Both liquid and blood coming out of the man at the same time and filing again the one that stands there ? The one Rashek, of course, creating his hemalurgic powers and he becoming the "Hero" without even having attempted to be the one. It would fit more with the character I think, the character of Rashek before he had become the despotic tyrant that TLR was.

Now ends my rambling for the night. Have fun with it. Work with it and do ask for the logbook.

Edit- Comatose, I e-mailed you the logbook  :D
« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 04:15:18 AM by Vintage »

Vambram

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2008, 04:43:00 AM »
That looks like a LOT of work there, Vintage!
Thank you very much for putting that all together for everyone. I hope you don't mind, but I took what you did, and copied all of it into a Word document on my computer.
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Andrew the Great

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2008, 05:41:41 AM »
Vintage, you are officially my hero. I added my email to my profile, so if you want to email it to me I would love it! That's a great reference for all sorts of subjects, and so I would like to speak for everyone and say thank you for saving me a whole lot of time!
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Vintage

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Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2008, 04:23:37 AM »
Vambram, what you read is not the logbook but only my thoughts after rereading it as a whole. I had a lot of fun compiling it though and I am happy to be of help to anyone.