Wheel v. Mist

[Andrew the Great]

WOT KOD Spoilers, so if you haven't read it and don't want it ruined, skip this one.





Rand gets his hand burnt off. He has no emotional reaction whatsoever. We also see that the Asha'man are all trained to not let their emotions affect them at any time. These men are basically required to be heartless killing machines. And soothing them wouldn't work. Based on rand, though there are likely other methods, men have virtually no emotion while channeling. When they do feel emotion, they promptly rid themselves of it via the flame and the void. Women need to ignore their emotions to channel, not get rid of it. So if the channeler is competent at ignoring emotions, the rioting wouldn't really work. The mistborn would have more of a chance against an Aes Sedai than an Asha'man, but honestly I see them charging and getting ripped to shreds.

The other thing we have not specified, in said fight, do the Mistborn/Channelers understand opposing magic systems? That would make a big difference in how well they fight. For instance, if a mistborn has no idea how channeling works, the whole electrum to see where your head gets chopped off thing doesn't work. If the channeler doesn't know how allomancy works, they are likely dead from metal on their bodies in seconds. It makes a difference. If they both know, however, they can prevent attacks much better.

[AvalonDreamer]

Well, even assuming it was a drawn out series of encounters, I'd say that the Channelers have the upper hand, if only because the White Tower is fairly good about researching and reacting to new phenomena. I don't know how the black tower would fare, especially as how Taim is making it into his own engine of destruction.

[Czanos]

I'd say it wouldn't be too far outside the realm of possibility for the groups to start with a basic knowledge of the other magic systems. Say, the channeler's know about the eight basic metals and their function, where the Mistborn knows about the five flows of the One Power and the basic mechanics of weaving them around your target to create effects.

These things are mostly common knowledge that could be learned without intense study, or by interrogating others. However, things like duralumin and balefire seem like things that they wouldn't have knowledge of at the start. So Aes Sedai and Asha'man would probably be smart enough to remove metal, and a cunning enough Mistborn would think of the Electrum and Atium tricks. (Because the theoretical challengers have a very intimate grasp of their own magic systems.)

And while it's true that the White Tower is good at learning about and reacting to new things, keep in mind that if the Mistborn wins there are going to be no survivors. An Aes Sedai's first reaction to a Mistborn would probably be to wrap them up in flows of air, slap a shield on them, and try to bring them back to the tower, which would probably end up with them dead as soon as they got near any metal. The White Tower would know something was killing off their Aes Sedai, but not necessarily what it was until the Mistborn let one go.

[firstRainbowRose]

Okay, I have a question for all of you to ponder.  If a Mistborn attacked from fifty feet in the air, could the ai sadai's channeling reach that far?  Would it possible for a mistborn to attack from a distance further than the channeling could reach, or the other way around?  Or are the magic ranges about the same?  Also, mistborn have the advantage of being able to "fly" through the air, while ai sadai are trapped on the ground.

[bhthomas]

    So we know that if the channeler knows who the mistborn is and they go head to head channeler has better odds but the great thing about mistborns is theres no trail to say who is fighting you so mistborns want to be just another person in the crowd.We also know that mistborns wont have a chance if its out in a rural area so it needs to be in a city;the bigger the better.

    Now getting on a rooftop and aiming a chunk of metal at a channeler isnt going to work as well as it sounds.The Aes sedei  have warders and they are always watching out ( from years of surprise attacks from the whitecloaks) so you probably will be spotted before hand. Other channelers might not be so cautious so you could get the slip on them if your lucky but that means no way to escape since you will probably be spotted.This also brings into question is a shield of air or spirit stops mistborns ability to push and pull metals inside the "air bubble".
 
    The asha mann and the aes sedei can usually be picked out of a crowd since they where uniforms or have the ageless face.This will make it easy for a well trained mistborn to riot the crowed around the mistborn not the channler themselves. Most people that know what channelers can do have some fear of them and that will be easy to lock on to and riot making the crowd panic. If there are any whitecloaks  or their supporters mistborns could riot their hate   enough to attack the channeler thus causing a distraction.

   Now If it is a trained aes sedei they probably have a warder near by. The warder would undoubtedly be carrying a sword. This could be controlled to either attack the unsuspecting Aes sesei or attack the warder making the channeler go crazy with grief like they do.that would be the easy way. If the Aes sedei know of the mistborn abilities and have removed all the metal (even though i dont see how they could get a warder to give up his sword)then now would be the perfect chance to coin shot them while the crowd is going crazy. 

   Now if the Channelers are  incognito and you knew who they are(as apposed to some random hit) then you could yell some insult or something  to let the crowd know who they are  gaining the ability to riot their emotions. the Mistborn could then just disappear in the crowd.

   If it came to an all out war i think the channelers would win seeing as there are so many more of them. I would love to see a battle between The Lord Ruler and Lews Therin.Maybe in comic book form

  And while we are discussing these two magic systems has EUOL said what category channeling falls under in his magic rating system

[AvalonDreamer]

If a Mistborn attacked from fifty feet in the air, could the ai sadai's channeling reach that far?  Would it possible for a mistborn to attack from a distance further than the channeling could reach, or the other way around?

Actually, in a long ranged fight, the channeler would tend to have the upper hand. We know that depending on strength and flaring, a Mistborn's area of effect only reaches so far, but a channeler can affect any area they can see, or a close area that they can't see but know well enough.

As for the Warder argument, once Aes Sedai figured out that their Warder's swords were being used against them, they'd have them stop carrying them. Once solution for the lack would be to make a sword of air like Siuan did on the boat, then tie off the weave for them to carry around.

The rioting of the locals is possible, but ultimately futile against a determined Asha'man, who wouldn't have a single compunction against slaughtering every living thing within a mile radius, or an Aes Sedai with a Warder. A Warder's first duty is to protect his bond-holder, and if they're anywhere near Lan's level of skill, a few dispatched disgruntled mob-members would definitely discourage further attempts to mess with the Aes Sedai.

I'v also wondered what mechanic of Physics (even if it's made up in BS's universe) allows Allmoancy to work. Is it magnetism? If so, I don't doubt that a hybrid of the delving, metal-dredging and shield weaves would stop a Mistborn's ability cold in it's tracks. Couple it with a few ropes of air, and the MB is out of commission. Purely theory of course.

[darxbane]

If you made the sword out of Cuendillar the Mistborn probably couldn't affect it, either.  I am starting to like the rioting/soothing idea, especially for male channelers.  Saidin is very difficult to control.  If you are not in a calm state, you can lose the source or overdraw it.  Imagine if the Mistborn rioted the pleasure received from holding the source, and soothed the pain caused when you begin to draw too much.  It may cause the channeler to burn himself out or even kill himself by overdrawing the power.  Nynaeve and pre-Asmodean Rand prove that emotional control is extremely important in order to properly channel.  I still think many channelers would overcome this, but it's something to think about.

[Vintage]

Pain is not an emotion, it is a sensation, which is different. So a soother would not be able to minimize the pain, but rioting the pleasure could make you forget, maybe ? I doubt it very much.

Ok, I'm out of here 

[AvalonDreamer]

I am starting to like the rioting/soothing idea, especially for male channelers.  Saidin is very difficult to control.  If you are not in a calm state, you can lose the source or overdraw it.

Could you imagine the poor Mistborn who'd gotten used to rioting anger in female channelers to throw them off, then he comes across his first Asha'man and tries that same tactic? ROFL. That would make a wonderful stick-fan-vid... "Mistborn Mess-up".

Rioting pleasure can help you forget, but Aes Sedai are trained to recognize when their minds are being played with (though they all seem to fall prey to Compulsion like a crippled rat falls prey to a cat with an over-producing adrenal gland), and one would hope they'd notice and regulate themselves. Maybe they could all compel each other to ignore emotion, like I've long suspected those cold, loveless Whites do...

[echigo109]

i haven't read wheel of time and would like to know 1) if its good and 2) where you can get it; but id have to say an inquisitor would be best with allomancy and ferochimy

[jjb]

Wheel of Time is AMAZING and you can get it at... bookstores, libraries, whatever. Wherever you normally get books. I'm sure used bookstores would having some of the books as well. I know that's how I got mine.

[AvalonDreamer]

All of this conjecture was from before we knew much about Hemalurgy, and I'd still rather be an Asha'man. Wheel of Time was a pretty awesome series, and I think, having read it and MB, that Sanderson definitely has potential to write an epic fantasy like the WoT with his own twists.

[Loud_G]

This is a fascinating discussion! It would be fun to see a battle either written or drawn. That would be amazing!

[melbatoast]

Obviously, this question will have to be explored further via fanfiction.

Yes! This is a great topic!

[Elmandr]

WOT was such an exhausting read. Terribly slow. Unbearably so.

I was not as impressed as everyone else.