Author Topic: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*  (Read 6278 times)

Vintage

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2008, 02:00:55 AM »
Where do you see that he had to choose between these two choices ? To me, they are not obligatory against one another. He could very well do both. Especially if he thought after whatever happened at the well, that Feruchemy could be, not an assett, but the opposite. Whatever. Let me read. lol

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2008, 07:54:00 PM »
If he had given the Terris people Dominance, they would have had too much freedom and they could have interbred with those who have allomancy, which would provide a challenger to his power, if he wanted to be secure the Terros people had to be controlled, and by locking ruin away again and limitng his influence the Lord Ruler took away Feruchemy weakness, but that's probably still why he made sure to wipe out the Terris religion, he couldn't leave the possigility of ruin finding some way to to free himself.  With the propehcy gone, Ruin couldn't do as much damage, it wasn't until Sazed started rediscovering it that Ruin was able to manipulate him.
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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2008, 09:53:15 PM »
Exactly, and the steel plaque in the Conventical of Seran could have been a reminder of that weakness, along with Alendi's journal, although I don't know how that avoided manipulation.
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Vintage

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2008, 11:26:30 PM »
Actually, I'm starting to think exactly in that direction... If everything that is not set in metal can be manipulated, can't Alendi's journal have been ? And also, we know because it is indicated in Mistborn 1 and 2, that the obligators and Inquisitors did play with history. But having the steel plaque right in the Conventical, they knew the truth (and Marsh too by the time he brought Sazed with him). So why would they hide something like that ? After all, what would the truth change for them had it be known ? I remember quite vividly when Sazed and Tindwhil were working on the rubbing translation, you remember, this little piece of paper that was torn off repeatedly ? The last sentence of the corrupted text ? Could it not have been the Mist spirit trying to bring attention to it ? - Do not forget that for me, it is not the Mist that is the bad guy, but the Well spirit. I am quite sure they fight one against the other - In other words, trying to force Sazed to go back to the steel plaque ?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 11:58:31 PM by Vintage »

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2008, 11:43:58 PM »
Yes, that's what the mist spirit was doing, I'm pretty sure Sazed realizes that later.  I don't think Alendi's journal was manipulated, I think the Lord Ruler would have protected it, and I think he kept it as is.  It was a remindero fhte man he had killed, and probably a reference.  HE was impersonating the hero after all.  Also, if you notice, the little quotations before the chapters are all un manipulated in MB2, and the one's in MB1 match up, so I think we can trust the log book.

Speaking of the log book, there's that metal lake we haven't figured out yet...
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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2008, 02:23:16 PM »
Ahhh, the metal lake again.  Anyway, that is exactly what happened.  The Mist Spirit was doing everything possible to prevent The release of the Well Spirit (Ruin).  It stabbed one of Alendi's companions (though not fatally) to try to steer Alendi away.  Why would they hide the truth?  Because it gave TLR an advantage.  He could write his own history to fit his needs.  Besides, he wouldn't want people to find out his own race were so easily fooled.
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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2008, 08:13:46 PM »
Quote
Ahhh, the metal lake again.  Anyway, that is exactly what happened.  The Mist Spirit was doing everything possible to prevent The release of the Well Spirit (Ruin).  It stabbed one of Alendi's companions (though not fatally) to try to steer Alendi away.  Why would they hide the truth?  Because it gave TLR an advantage.  He could write his own history to fit his needs.  Besides, he wouldn't want people to find out his own race were so easily fooled.

Are you saying the log book is true or false?  I still think it's true, personally, and you guys are forgettin, the only people who know the terris people were fooled are the lord ruler, Kwaan, Sazed, Vin, and the others, and the logbook says nothing about the terris being fooled, Alendi truly believes he is the hero.  why tamper with a document which does nothing to diminish the lrod ruler's claims?
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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2008, 09:14:58 PM »
I think the log book is true, as well.  The only reason I can think of  would be to help find TLR's weakness so he could be defeated, seeing as he was in the way of Ruin's freedom.  There are two points here.  First, if it benefitted Ruin to change the log book, which we believe did not happen, for whatever reason.  Vintage also asked why TLR wouldn't tell the truth about Alendi and Ruin.  That's what I was answering.
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TyranAmiros

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2008, 08:47:05 AM »
I just finished WoA, and only read through MB1 a couple weeks ago, but I had a few thoughts.

How did Rashek know what to do when he reached the Well?† Or did he *not* know what to do at the Well and decided to take control for himself?† †The idea that he didn't know what to do at the Well doesn't sit well with me (pun not intended) because the Final Empire seems too deliberate for there to be no deliberate action on Rashek's part.† However, I also find it hard to believe that Kwaan would have told Rashek to leave the world as he eventually did.† †I wonder if we'll get Rashek epigraphs in MB3.

This, I think, touches on the big unanswered questions about the metaphysics of the Mistborn-verse.† Normally in fantasy novels, there's a prophesy and it's fulfilled, albeit in a circuitous way.† Here, we don't even know if the Hero of Ages prophesy existed or if it was created by Ruin during some millenial cycle or another.† Further, how does sensing the Well tie into the Hero of Ages prophesy? Both Vin and Alendi seem to have sensed the Well--which could imply that Alendi was indeed the Hero of Ages. But if Alendi was a Hero of Ages then Kwaan also made a mistake by having Rashek kill him.

This brings me to my pet loony theory is that Ruin has to be released at the Well--despite Kwaan's account--in order to save the world.† The sense of wrongness about Rashek's Final Empire implies that the way to defeat Ruin isn't simply to use the power at the Well.† †The Hero of Ages must do something with the power, but what?

The magics of Mistborn-verse seem key to this.† The Deepness can't really be understood without Allomancy, but Allomancy didn't exist until after Rashek took the power at the Well.† Ruin seems to have power of Feruchemy but not Allomancy.† I think one important question is whether Hemalurgy also was created at the Well.† Or another way, are Allomancy and Hemalurgy like the Kandra/Koloss dichotomy, embodying the two sides to the world's mythos?†

The Mist Spirit is another character that seems questionable in the Ruin/Preservation mythos.† If it is connected to Ruin, as the jacket tag for MB3 describes, why did it show Vin how to save Elend?†

Lastly, on Kwaan, isn't in interesting that we don't know his fate?† Was he killed when Rashek remade the world or did he survive into the Final Empire?

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2008, 08:34:11 PM »
Jacket Tag?  What Jacket Tag?

I agree that the final empire seems deiberate, I thnk the lord ruler was trying to limit ruin's influence by keeping the world stable.  I think Ruin and Preservation draw power from the state of the world, and the Lord Ruler was able to keep Ruin chained by stabilizing the world.

And we just know  Brandon is going to throw som big twist in like that, who knkow maybe Ruin is just misundertsood ;)
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VegasDev

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2008, 09:30:42 PM »
I didn't see this anywhere else so I thought I would add it to this thread since Jacket Tag is mentioned. Taken from the Amazon site.

Who is the Hero of Ages?

To end the Final Empire and restore freedom, Vin killed the Lord Ruler. But as a result, the Deepness---the lethal form of the ubiquitous mists---is back, along with increasingly heavy ashfalls and ever more powerful earthquakes. Humanity appears to be doomed.

Having escaped death at the climax of The Well of Ascension only by becoming a Mistborn himself, Emperor Elend Venture hopes to find clues left behind by the Lord Ruler that will allow him to save the world. Vin is consumed with guilt at having been tricked into releasing the mystic force known as Ruin from the Well. Ruin wants to end the world, and its near omniscience and ability to warp reality make stopping it seem impossible. She canít even discuss it with Elend lest Ruin learn their plans!

The conclusion of the Mistborn trilogy fulfills all the promise of the first two books. Revelations abound, connections rooted in early chapters of the series click into place, and surprises, as satisfying as they are stunning, blossom like fireworks to dazzle and delight. It all leads up to a finale unmatched for originality and audacity that will leave readers rubbing their eyes in wonder, as if awaking from an amazing dream.
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TyranAmiros

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2008, 03:05:00 AM »
^^That's what I meant by "jacket tag."

Knowing how much Brandon likes religion, I've been thinking about how Ruin/Preservation might be similar to other sorts of dualisms.  I may be wrong, but most dualist frameworks I'm familiar with tend to emphasize the importance of both aspects of the dyad--Good and Evil, order and chaos, saidin and saidar (little WoT reference).  It's always about how both are necessary for the world to function.  That's where I get my loony theory.  If Ruin was "trapped" and the Final Empire is pretty close to pure Preservation, well, Preservation can also be stagnation without a little bit of chaos every once in a while.  Maybe it's not so much about recapturing Ruin as it is rebalancing the dyad?

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2008, 03:25:54 AM »
That actually makes a lot of sense to me.
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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2008, 10:46:33 PM »
I got the feeling that there was no winning with the Well. 
Vin was definitely not supposed to release it, because it turns out to be Ruin.  But if she had used it, she could easily have turned out as another Lord Ruler.
Maybe she really did have to release it in order to subsequently defeat it in the final book, otherwise the world would have simply been reformed by "heroes" for all the rest of eternity.

I think Vin=Hero of Ages is just a little too... cliche?  I mean, these books are supposed to be about "What if the hero of prophecy  failed?"  Somehow, I think there shouldn't even be a Hero of Ages, just someone strong and dedicated enough to face the big bad and save the world.  The title implies I'm wrong though...

Sorry if someone has already said this... I just got here under an hour ago, and I don't have time to read everything on the forum. Not yet anyway. ;D

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Re: Mistborn 3 Plot Points *Spoilers*
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2008, 05:38:31 AM »
Actually, I did post that description before, but it was quite some time ago and its now on the 3rd page of the forum. Here

I don't think the Hero is a fabrication, at least not completely a fabrication. There has to be some truth to it (besides, I've already posted a theory somewhere that says Ruin couldn't have created the entire prophecy from scratch).
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