Author Topic: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...  (Read 4113 times)

Whitefire

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The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« on: March 21, 2008, 08:31:32 PM »
Hi all!

I'm new here and I'm from an opposite part of the globe to most of you, so don't get mad if my English is not perfect :)

I've thought long on how we, ordinary mortals ;), could help Mr Brandon with the challenge of finishing A Memory of Light. And, well, maybe I have come up with something small. If you people are interested.

You see I think that finishing someone else's work is problematic, to say the least. Especially something so huge as Wheel of Time. Fans' expectations are as high as the Moon. Mr Brandon seems to be an excellent writer, but he's got his own style, his own ideas, his own sense of dramatic effect, suspension... And no matter what he does, he will not know the world of Wheel of Time as well as Robert Jordan did.

So I thought some of us hardcore fans of R.J's could help out a little bit, by making a list of things that are not finished in the WoT series after book eleven. Threads, plotlines, earlier prophecies and visions, ideas. Big, small. Not a wishlist, not guesses about the book--only things that were suggested or started in the novels so far, but are not finished. Just a picture "after book 11". Maybe it's too much to wish, but I'd like to think that maybe, before publishing A Memory of Light, Mr. Brandon would look at these posts and think: Yeah, yeah... Everybody knows that... This was supposed to be left out... This is plain stupid... But wait, this one's interesting...

I am aware that Mr. Brandon knows the books very well, and he's reading them right now, and most likely taking a lot of notes. I've read that he's got an excellent outline. I know he has information about what should be in the Memory of Light and even what should be left out. And that Harriet and others will edit it and help. Fine, fine! Great. But I still think that a list of "what's unfinished" would be helpful with such a vast creation like WoT, and that it is probably the only useful thing we can do, except encouraging him of course.

If this thread is tidy, concise (is that the word? :) and only if the posts and ideas come from people who have read all the books of WoT. So... If anyone wants to help... Wheel of Time SPOILERS below.

-----
Later edit because of some comments below:
This is not about telling the writer what to put in a book. This is supposed to clarify where WoT has gotten so far, not what should be next. I'd bet anything, BS is doing the same thing right now. Probably much better than we. It has nothing to do with what should be in the last book, what should be left out, or what new should be added which we do not know about. These are just some things which may be useful before we read AMOL. Unlikely, but possibly useful for BS, too. Plus, as you said, it's fun :)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 01:06:33 PM by Whitefire »

Whitefire

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 09:20:53 PM »
So I'll start with some obvious things, just so that they are not repeated over and over again.

1. Tarmon Gai Don - of course. However it looks like. Rand bleeding/dying/going insane; sun raising three times... This is big and kind of obvious, not really why I started this topic...

2. What happens to all the main characters, including the Forsaken?

3. Egwene has made a prophecy that the Seanchan will attack White Tower.

4. Thom, Mat and Noal decided to rescue Moiraine.

5. The division of the White Tower probably should be somehow resolved, as well as the relationship with asha'man.

6. What happens to the Reds? They are theoretically unnecessary after the cleansing of saidin, and there is this visit of theirs at the Black Tower at the end of KoD...

7. Dragon's eggs, gunpowder and cannons - it may be expected they will be used, which involves Mat.

8. What happened on Tremalking - will it matter?

9. Rand's triple (?) personality.

10. Who Killed Asmodean. :) Well, you said you will answer it, so just reminding  ;D

I will add more later, or edit this post.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 01:48:23 AM by Whitefire »

rjl

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2008, 09:27:41 PM »
I doubt Brandon really needs our help, but it will be interesting to talk about what we expect to see in the last book.

The aiel, what will happen to them? A remnant of a remnant is meant to survive, last we knew there were still thousands and thousands of them.

Lan, after the last battle will he re-found Malkier?

Who will take the sun throne? Elayne? Moiraine?

What's Galad going to do with those whitecloaks?

Will Gawyn rescue Egwene?

Who's beating Sheriam?

that'll do for now... I could go on for years...

Isabel

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2008, 09:48:13 AM »
Sorry to say so, but fans shouldn't help out to tell him what to put in the book. What will be put in the book depends fully on the notes RJ left behind, what Harriet thinks and what BS thinks.

Jordan has always said that he will leave some story lines unfinished. What those will be we have to wait.
No writer should look to fans to say what should be in the book.

Although discussing what is left and what will be in the book is fun :)

So anyone thinks that Nynaeve will be pregnant? Or don't you think we will see that in the last book?
We still have Min's vision of a babe in the craddle holding a sword.
Since RJ said at Dragon Con that Mins visions are all about the future, it can't be Lan.

Whitefire

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 02:50:57 AM »

Will someone rediscover flying? I asked that question once and got RAFO. Well, I would very much like to "read and find out".

Will Logain become someone greater? Min had all these viewings about him.

Is Verin bonded by the Three Oaths and why not :D

Will Alivia help Rand die, as Min saw it? "To live, you must die" - this was a prophecy to Rand after he asked Aelfinn how can he win Tarmon Gai'don and survive.

What about the gholam that is perhaps following Mat - or Luca?

Will Loial be there at Tarmon Gai'don, as he promised?

Will Harine became Mistress of the Ships?

Why most of the new Sitters from Salidar are so young?

What will become of the "contest for Perrin" between Berelain and Faile? (as if we didn't know :)

What will happen to Maighdin-Morgase and her hidden identity?

Are there any further plans for Masema?

What happened to Chiad and Bain, will Gaul find them?

Will Tam meet Rand? He's with Perrin after all.

What about the raised flag of Manetheren?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 12:29:16 PM by Whitefire »

Isabel

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 07:08:18 AM »
Quote
Will someone rediscover flying? I asked that question once and got RAFO. Well, I would very much like to "read and find out".
RAFO doens't mean you will read it. It was his answer about things that might or might not happen, but he didn't want to spoil it.
I don't think we will see flying.

Quote
Will Harine became Mistress of the Ships?
Didn't Min have a vision? That it would take a few years, but she would become Mistress of the Ships? She had it about one of the sea folk. In that case this won't happen in the next book.

Quote
Why most of the new Sitters from Salidar are so young?
Scapegoats. If something goes wrong than they get the blame. I think RJ won't explain any more about that. :( (but it's not RJ anymore) who knows, but this is something we should figure out for ourselves.

Quote
Are there any further plans for Masema?
What happened to Chiad and Bain, will Gaul find them?
What about the raised flag of Manetheren?

These are all not main character things. Flag of Manetheren will have consequences for years, but most will happen after Tarmon Gai'don.
CHiad and Bain, I don't think we will get a happy ending at least not yet in the books. Even if Gaul finds them than they still have to serve for a year and one day.
Masema: i am sure he has more plans, but if that story line will be closed, I don't know. Perhaps Rand will take one look at him or kill him.

Quote
Is Verin bonded by the Three Oaths and why not.
From what I remember RJ saying, Verin is bonded. She still has the ageless look.

Isabel

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 07:10:29 AM »
By the way, If you want to read some reports about what RJ said and listen to some audio files from Dragon Con.
here is the link:

http://home.casema.nl/e.f.delaat/

Whitefire

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 03:26:34 PM »
I didn't know about Verin, thanks. I must have missed it or forgot. I also changed my first post after your comments, to avoid misunderstanding.

Comfortable Madness

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2008, 02:46:43 PM »
Quote
Is Verin bonded by the Three Oaths and why not.
Quote
From what I remember RJ saying, Verin is bonded. She still has the ageless look.



All of the Black Ajah are unbound but still retain the ageless look....

As for what will happen in the end...I think the biggest question is will Rand die. I believe the prophecy states that the Dragon is meant to die. So does that encompass the Dragon Reborn as well? Or does it mean that Lews Therin, who currently resides in Rands head, will finally be able to rest in peace?


Quote
Will Logain become someone greater? Min had all these viewings about him.

If/when Rand dies after Tarmon Gaidon I believe that Logain will be the king/ruler of the lands Rand unites before he dies....
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 02:54:12 PM by Comfortable Madness »
I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. Im sure of it. Come. It is time to die. Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar

darxbane

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 10:10:52 PM »
All of the Black Ajah are unbound but still retain the ageless look....

Actually, the Black Ajah are bound by a different set of Oaths, although I can't remember them right now. They are related to their service to the Dark Lord, however.

I would also like to find out almost everything listed above. My biggest question, though is what the hell Demondred has been doing throughout the whole series. Of all the foresaken, he is the one we know the least about. 
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

EUOL

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2008, 08:06:42 AM »
This is actually useful, so thanks for the topic.  I'm aware of most of this, of course, but there's always the chance that I'll miss something.  So, if there are questions you are looking to have answered in Book Twelve, go ahead and post them.  I don't promise to answer them, and I probably will stay away from posting any further on the thread for fear of giving spoilers, but I WILL look and you might catch something.  (Though, there are several websites where this exact sort of information is collected.) 
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

tifosi

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 11:57:13 PM »
Brandon. All the best with the book. Enjoy the journey.

I'm sure this post will expand over time. This, and the threads in the general&structured forums on dragonmount will I'm sure be enough to cover all the 'missing' parts.

For myself I'm just waiting to RAFO! Though I'll be curious to see what comes of the Min/HeridFell's books subplot and just how Alivia is going to do her stuff!

Thanks for taking up the Challenge (Big C!).

Stephen

Whitefire

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2008, 12:26:37 AM »

Mistbane

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2008, 01:51:39 PM »
Instead of naming all those the this that are unfinished I might as well note those things that we might see finished in aMoL, I base most of my conjectures in the prophecies, dreams and viewings throughout the series.

Let's go charachter by character:

Perrin and the broken crown.
Mat, Thom and Noel: They have to get to the tower of Genjei, rescue Moirane from Finnland, then Mat has to get his cannons in time for Tarmon Gaidon. At some point Mat loses and eye (give up half of the light of the world).

Those are the most linear subplots. Then things get intertwined, Rand has to learn whatever he has to learn from Cadsuane (to cry and laugh again...), then he has to "bind the nine moons to serve him" which means dealing with the Seanchan, but that should not happen before the Seanchan attack the White Tower which leads to all the Tower plots, the Tower has to be united and cleansed, then Rand shall show up there and "know the anger of the Amyrlin Seat" which should be more than a yelling from Egwene.

I guess that after that he should also take care of the Black Tower, after KoD we know that Taim is a darkfriend and has 100 Asha'man who will turn into Dreadlords for the last battle, at some point the BT shall be destroyed.

Well, this is my idea of what should happen. I'd like to also make two interesting points, Brandon Sanderson is known for his "Avalanche" at the last chapters of his books and he also notes in his posts that The Wheel of Time makes more sense when read in one go and not book by book, which leads me to conclude that we are in the presence of 300k+ words worth of "Brandon Avalanche" ;D


« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 01:54:04 PM by Mistbane »

firstRainbowRose

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Re: The Wheel of Time: the things unfinished...
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2008, 04:31:30 AM »
then he has to "bind the nine moons to serve him" which means dealing with the Seanchan

I think that's pretty much been done.  And remember, the Sean-chan say that Rand will bow to them.  I think though that Mat's being married to their princess will take care of both sides of that (no matter which way is right.)

But the one I want explained is the bit that Perrin (or was it Mat?) saw in the "swirl of colors" that resolved into Rand not having his left hand.  (Which would also explain what Elane felt as a shock, and the reason he's moving around so much.)

My thoughts is that Logane is going to take over after Tiem is killed and be the Mahail of the BT.  Also, it says "THE DRAGON" will die.  Who is the Dragon?  It isn't Rand... It's Lustherin (or however you spell his name.  I'm listening to the audio books so forgive me for spelling errors.)  That would also fit Min's viewing of Rand and another man merging and one of them dieing.  But that's just my thoughts on the solution...
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'. We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui. For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'. So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"