Author Topic: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread  (Read 97613 times)

rjl

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2008, 10:39:15 PM »
By applying rules, we can begin the process of understanding :D.
That's as perverse as physics...

Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 12:07:03 AM »
Well, I'm going to be a Physics major when I start college in the fall, so I guess that's what you get. :D
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Shost

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2008, 12:45:44 AM »
Allomancy, by nature (as far as we know, without enhancement), cannot affect metals inside of someone, and yet, with Hemalurgy, you can.

i don't think it was hemallurgy that made that possible. i mean vin LOST her earring in that fight and its been mentioned before that that is what allowed her to draw upon the mists and it was that power that allowed her to affect the lord ruler's metal. and it never mentions that inqs have that ability. just the lord ruler and vin when drawing on the mists.

as for rules i think rule 1 is that there is some kind of ritual sacrifice involved before a hemallurgical piercing is made.

Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2008, 01:06:53 AM »
There I go with forgetting important things. Sorry about that, my wires get crossed sometimes.

I agree with Rule Number 1. Brandon has stated in the MB1 annotations that making Steel Inquisitors through Hemalurgy requires a blood sacrifice, so it's not too far a stretch to apply that to all Hemalurgists.

In Vin's case, the blood sacrifice could be her own sister (as her mother killed her and then gave the earring to Vin).

I would like to correct my original statement, then. We have a paradox, then. People with metals inside of them, like Zane and Inquisitors, have their special Hemalurgic powers. Vin can pierce copperclouds. It seems to work fine, right?

Except for the mist. Vin using the mist to attack the Lord Ruler throws a significant wrench in things. But, Steel Inquisitors push away mist. That has to be something Hemalurgy related. That leads me to believe that when Vin channels the mists, it isn't Hemalurgy, just because the nature of Hemalurgy pushes the mist away.
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rjl

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2008, 01:19:12 AM »
"That leads me to believe that when Vin channels the mists, it isn't Hemalurgy, just because the nature of Hemalurgy pushes the mist away."
That sounds slightly wishy washy, lets put it more plainly, when Vin channels the mist it can't be Hemalurgy.

My guess is that Vin is a powerful Mistborn, and is therefore able to channel mist without any kind of assistance, of course when being augmented by her Hemalurgy imbued earing she can't channel mist as the earing repels it.

Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2008, 01:25:34 AM »
:P My logic mode tends to not be very, uh, powerful writing. More thinking out loud, if you will.

It's possible, though, that the reason Vin can channel the mists isn't solely because she's so powerful, but because of something Ruin or Preservation is doing through the mists. See the topic called "Ruin and Preservation" for more on that.

So, for summary:

1. To gain Hemalurgic powers, one must have a blood sacrifice.
2. Channeling the mists as Vin did against the Lord Ruler is not Hemalurgy.
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Comatose

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2008, 12:16:31 AM »
We can also agree that hemalurgy involves metals within the body.  As far as we know for sure, it has to be a metal spike like the inquisitors and Zane have, but the number can be variable.  It also possible for it to be an earing, like the one Vin wears, but this is not certain.


I agree that using the mists is something separate, but I'm not entirely sure that Ruin and Preservation are involved.  It's possible that Ruin and Preservation both have power over the mists, and Vin has somehow learned to use this power as well.
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darxbane

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2008, 04:58:06 PM »
I think we can be pretty certain that Vin's earring has Hemallurgic properties, as it pushes away the mist, and allows her to feel the Well pulsing.  It was also posted on another thread that Alendi had the "piercing of the Hero" or something like that, and he wrote in his diary that he felt the same pulsing.  Only Vind and Alendi could feel this.   Zane could hear the God voice, and the Inqie's were under much more influence by the end of book 2.  EUOL has said that the mists do have a connection with Allomancy.  Hemallurgy appears to have the opposite effect.  I would think that Ruin influence over Hemallurgy would make it an opposing force to the mists, but we can't be sure.
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Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2008, 06:13:23 PM »
That certainly makes sense, darxbane, but then how is Ruin causing the killings in the mist if its the thing that "opposes" the mists? We seem to get back to the same paradoxes every time.
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VegasDev

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2008, 08:06:47 PM »
No VegasDev. If Vin's mom was controlled by anything, it's Ruin. You know why? Ruin wants to keep Vin alive. Ruin chose Vin to be the false Hero of Ages so she could release Ruin.

So because Ruin wants Vin alive it is not possible that Preservation also wants her alive and also played a role in her surviving? Because Ruin wants her alive she is automatically the False Hero of Ages? If that's the case, I am not looking forward to book 3, because it's obvious that Vin's only contribution to the series is freeing Ruin and destroying the world.  ;)
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darxbane

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2008, 09:59:51 PM »
I am sure that is not Vin's only purpose.  She got to kill Straff, and that is something I would have stood in line to do. ;D  In all seriousness, this could be an example of how the Hero can benefit both sides, and it is the choices made by the Hero that ultimately decide who wins. She still has a chance to fix her mistake, after all. The Preservation spirit's involvement have not been revealed in much detail yet.  It could have been helping Vin in ways we don't know.  It did try to keep her from freeing Ruin, but in a very indirect way.  Maybe the Mist Spirit isn't Preservation, just a guardian of the Well.

Chaos, I agree.  Either Ruin can use the mists and influence Hemallurgy, or the deaths in the mists have nothing to do with Ruin at all.
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Plasman

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2008, 11:50:28 PM »
i'm a little skeptical of your second rule since it seems obvious to me that there are several different types of hemalurgic powers, but i'd like to propose a third one.

3) Individuals with hemalurgic piercings are open to influence from ruin and possibly other entities.

i'd also like to point out that while hemalurgy does seem to be used in unison with allomancy and possibly feruchemy, that it is its own separate magic system. it is not simply an other-power-amplifier. afterall, it does seem like hemalurgy was around long before allomancy. it's likely that the lord ruler just found a way to use them to compliment each other like he did with feruchemy.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2008, 11:59:02 PM »
Just because Alendi had piercings, doesn't make them Hemalurgic, I just thought it was interesting that they both had piercings, Alendi proclaiming him as the hero, Vin's mother proclaimed her a Queen.  Remember, the legends were of Terris Origin, and the Terris people are known to wear Jewelery.  While we can assume about Vin's earing because of the sacrifice, we do not know the manner in which Alendi recieved his piercing.  They could be Hemalurgic however.  Somehow, I think that Vin and Alendi's aren't the same as the inquisitors or Zane, perhaps a different form of Hemalurgy?  After all, they cannot hear Ruin's voice, and wouldn't they be the people Ruin wants to influence most of all?  Again, I'm not saying I disagree, I just think that there are other possibilities.
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Shost

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2008, 04:41:09 AM »
as i've mentioned in other threads i think that Alendi is a hemallurgist. i think it would be an interesting parallel between him and Vin. from what Kwann said it seems that the piercings were a necessary part of being the Hero.

we do not know the manner in which Alendi recieved his piercing.

i think we can actually assume that they were given to him after people began to believe he was the Hero. i think it mentions them as the "piercings of the Hero" as if there were something to differentiate them from other, more mundane piercings like those of the terrisman or from any piercings that Alendi may have had before becoming the Hero. so i think Alendi's a hemallurgist. to what degree is unclear. for example Vin is certainly less hemallurgic than the inqs but i get the feeling that Alendi parallels Vin and is hemallurgic in a similar fashion.

darxbane

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2008, 09:40:19 PM »
I was thinking the same thing, Shost.  Just for fun though, let's twist it a little.  Maybe Alendi already had the piercings.  Maybe the Khlennium people were skilled in Hemallurgy.  How else could they oppress the Terris World Bringers?  All our pal Ruin would have to do is twist the prophecy to say that the Hero of Ages would be pierced this way.  It made everything else up, why not this too?  All it needed was someone with Hemallurgy to get close enough to feel the pulsing.  This is a pretty wild theory, but you all love it, dont you?  :-*
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