Sword Fighting Prowess

[Comfortable Madness]

You are missing the point of the lesson.  Galad and Gawyn understimated Mat.  They were taken by surprise, and were defeated before they could recover.  Plus Gawyn and Galad were not near the ability of Lan or Rand (although Galad is much closer now).  In New Spring, Lan takes on 6 people at once in a real fight and wins.  Rand has been unable to defeat 5 at once in practice, and I don't think Mat has faced that many at once. Oh, and Rand needed Moiraine's help to beat Ba'laal in book three.  He was getting whooped.

I'm pretty sure you missed the point here. Hammar told them that because the sword does not match up well against against the staff and if my memory serves me right he says something along those lines. Also, it's true Galad and Gawyn were not at there full potential then but neither was Mat AND he was recovering from the effects of the ruby hilted dagger. As for Be'laal, talk about not being up to potential yet that was in book three and once again against a superior oppenent Rand held his own. Getting whooped I don't think so. If he was getting whooped  Be' laal would have had an oppening to kill him. I still got Mat and Rand over Lan one on one....

[Fellfrosch]

I love how you all keep talking about Rand's cool magic powers and/or magic swords, and then suggest that he could still hold his own in a depowered fight. I'm not buying it. Anyone who relies on magic is going to be gimped when that magic is taken away, leaving the non-magic fighters as the ultimate winners.

[darxbane]

Actually, Rand doesn't use the power to fight.  He can make a sword using the power, but most of the swordfighting in WoT is skill against skill.  I still believe that Mat won because of his luck combined with Gawyn and Galad's overconfidence and their fear of hurting someone so "ill".  We will agree to disagree here, I guess.

[Comfortable Madness]

Fair enough darxbane.

I love how you all keep talking about Rand's cool magic powers and/or magic swords, and then suggest that he could still hold his own in a depowered fight. I'm not buying it. Anyone who relies on magic is going to be gimped when that magic is taken away, leaving the non-magic fighters as the ultimate winners.

I'm in disagreement with your theory as well. Just because someone CAN use powers doesn't automatically make them weaker in unpowered abilities. Also, on the flipside just because you can only use unpowered fighting styles doesn't automatically make you a superior fighter in such abilities. That just doesn't make sense. I get that they may be more focused on it because that is all they can do but they just may not have the raw abilitiy to be as good as say someone like Rand. No matter how hard an inferior swordsman practices to be the best he will never be because he just doesn't have the natural abilities that another may have...

[AvalonDreamer]

Rand is downright the best, even if just for the fact that he has the hundreds of years of experience from Kinslayer to draw from. On top of that though, he was trained by the best of the Warders and has serious power bumps from being Bonded (which he would still smash every one even if he didn't), and I bet that from all of the crap that he's taken from life, all the accumulated wounds and tortures and various pains, he could walk out there, take any hit they could hope to deal to him, and he would STILL turn around and smite them where they stood in all of their insolence.

(really wanted to use the word insolence in a post ^^)

He doesn't use the power to sword-fight, not in a very long time, or unless he's fighting another channeler. Heck, we saw him bash the 6 or w/e best swordsmen in Caemlyn that one time, among many other incredibly awesome feats of uber awesomeness.

[Fellfrosch]

Maybe I should phrase this a different way:

It's 1987, and your friend challenges you to a game of Super Mario Bros. on his NES. You accept, because you're awesome at Super Mario Bros.--you play that game all the time, and you're awesome at it because you have a Game Genie: you can slow it down for tricky parts, you can hit turbo to blast through the easy parts, and you can hit turn on super jumping power to go where no other player has gone before. The trouble is, when you get to your friend's house, he doesn't have a Game Genie. You're going to have to play the entire thing with a suite of abilities you're thoroughly unfamiliar with, because you haven't played the standard version of the game in years. Every button you hit does something slightly different than you expect it to. I think we can all agree that in that situation, no matter good you are with a Game Genie, you're going to suck without one.

[AvalonDreamer]

But Rand doesn't use the Power to sword fight... He's explicitly practiced so that he can use it in situations where it wouldn't be usable, like in Far Madding.

[Comfortable Madness]

It's 1987, and your friend challenges you to a game of Super Mario Bros. on his NES. You accept, because you're awesome at Super Mario Bros.--you play that game all the time, and you're awesome at it because you have a Game Genie: you can slow it down for tricky parts, you can hit turbo to blast through the easy parts, and you can hit turn on super jumping power to go where no other player has gone before. The trouble is, when you get to your friend's house, he doesn't have a Game Genie. You're going to have to play the entire thing with a suite of abilities you're thoroughly unfamiliar with, because you haven't played the standard version of the game in years. Every button you hit does something slightly different than you expect it to. I think we can all agree that in that situation, no matter good you are with a Game Genie, you're going to suck without one.

Awesome! I love the analogy! Although, my point is that even though I do use the Game Genie alot I also play without it alot. So, not only am I ultra badass with the Game Genie but I'll still whoop anyone without it because I am superior in the art of Super Mario Bros. So, no matter how much you've played without Game Genie your still going to get beatdown....

[darxbane]

He doesn't use the power to sword-fight, not in a very long time, or unless he's fighting another channeler. Heck, we saw him bash the 6 or w/e best swordsmen in Caemlyn that one time, among many other incredibly awesome feats of uber awesomeness.

It was only 5, and he was "killed" by the 5th one (hit on the head), even though he also inflicted a killing blow on the last opponent.  Rand has also never beaten Lan when they spar, and also lost to Toram Riatin when he snuck into his camp outside Tear.  If Rand can't beat other blademasters in his own world, how can we even compare him to other main characters?  Lan, on the other hand, fought 5 swordsmen at once in an actual battle and was unscathed (New Spring).  In fact, we have yet to see Lan even get touched in the entire series.  Not even a scratch!

[AvalonDreamer]

I'll agree that the lost king of Malkier could top any of them, but Rand was the best on the list. It's been a while since my last read-through (waiting until the announce of the release date for aMoL), and I totally forgot that he lost to Raitin... that and I confused him with Galad in my head for a second (you know, when he totally emasculated Valda?).

Lan has been wounded before, though I don't think we ever saw it happen. There was right after he lost Moraine, he walked into Myrelle's (wasn't it Myrelle?) camp and was scratched up and such, right on the verge of dying. Think we could get Lan added to the list? I'd vote for him...

[kevinpii]

asking who would win in a sword fight between rand and LAN is like asking who would win in a real fight between segal and vandam.  the answer to this one is chuck Norris. in sword fighting terms that's drizzt do'urden. with drizzt's skill and speed with two blades he would win every time in a fight with rand or LAN. also he doesn't always use the magic of his blades very rarely does this come into play, he doesn't even always use his anklets take his last  battle with enteri for instance. he won fair and square with no magic.

[Elmandr]

Me.

Don't ask why. Thats just my answer...

[Qarlin]

Denth. Unless we're bringing in Madmartigan or Wesley. All are ridiculously skilled without using magic. And I agree with Fell that magic users would be gimped without their magic. Even if they tried not to use it all the time.

[GreenMonsta]

Honestly it has to be Drizzt. I am aware that Rand is supposed to be good but he learned as he went and his training hasnt been all that long. Ok he is a Blade Master but Drizzt has been trained in an Evil arena/Military training school since he was fairly young. Not only was he the best of his race but there was never another opponent that could best him in his travels since. Even Entreri without magic.

Also if it wasnt Drizzt it would be Richard Rhal seeing how he practically takes on armies of soldiers on multiple occasions and that could be with or without his magic. Im just saying.

[Comfortable Madness]

Ahh...I've missed this thread.

Mean/Green
I definately could see Richard Rahl being a good choice here. However, I made this poll before reading Wizards First Rule. I think its funny how both Rand and Richard both find the some sort of "void" before engaging in combat. I really don't think that there is a wrong answer here. It's all opinion and bias but makes for a fun debate.